| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 05:04:04
I know everyone hates the old idea of "Take random earth cultures and make them magic" but still, sprinkling aspects of these cultures, languages, and ethnic groups can be a VERY useful tool for a DM to set the mood of a particular area. In this thread, we can list the real world cultures we use elements of to set the mood of various cultures, races, and languages.
Some are a tad bit random, but I have my reasons. Some are obscure as well. I didn't go into Demihumans because I deplore the idea that their cultures would resemble ours in anything but the basics.
Aglarond: Baltic States, Latvia and Lithuania
Altumbel: Baltic States, more Prussian and conservative.
Amn: Renaissance Spain
Anauroch: Bedouin nomad tribes
Shade: Gothic, in both the architectural and dress sense of the word.
Border Kingdoms: Since the Border Kingdoms are quite diverse, it is almost impossible to pin down a culture besides the Calishite and Shaaran ethnicity of the majority of people.
Calimshan: Al-Andalus (Muslim Spain) and Morocco
Chessenta: Byzantine and Classical Greece
Chondath: Italian city states
Chult: Ashanti
Cormyr: Frankish and Carolingian empires
Dalelands: Southern France, Swiss cantons, Holy Roman empire
Damara: Germany
Dambrath: Imagine Teutonic barbarians in tropic climes, and there you have it.
Dragon Coast: Southern France, Northern Italy
Durpar: the Sindh
Endless Wastes: Huns, Tatars, Kazakhs, Uighurs
Estagund: Dravidian (southern) India
Great Dale: Black Forest
Great Glacier: Greenland, Lappland
Halruua: Gothic north african kingdoms
High Forest: Sweden
Hlondeth: Sicily
Impiltur: Hanseatic League
Lake of Steam: Horn of Africa, Somali/Tigray
Lantan: Azore Islands and Canary Islands, especially the Guanche natives of the Canaries.
Lapaliiya: Ethiopia
Moonsea: Bwahaha we are evil...?
Moonshaes: British isles, of course.
Mulhorand: Ancient egypt, of course.
Murghom: The various cultures of the Caucasus.
Narfell: West Slavic groups.
Nelanthar Isles: Pirates. That's all you need to know.
Nimbral: Rather like the Halruuans.
Pirate Isles: pirates...
Rashemen: East Slavs.
Sembia: Netherlands
Semphar: Turkey
Sespech: Southern Italy
The Shaar: North American plains, oddly.
Silver Marches: Denmark
Sossal: Norway
Sword Coast North/Icewind Dale: Iceland
Tashalar/Thindol/Samarach: Kenya/Tanzania
Tethyr: Iberia before the Romans came/Basque.
Tharsult: South Arabian Peninsula
Thay: Caanan
Thesk: Baltic
Turmish: Persian
Unther: Babylon/Sumer
Vaasa: Finland
Var the Golden: Ganges floodplain
The Vast: Estonia
Veldorn: Afghanistan/Punjab
Deep Imaskar: Clothing wise, think a very conservative mix with high collars, based on Victorian and Manchu.
When a character has an accent:
Aglarondan: Prussian
Alzhedo: Arabic
Chessentan: Greek
Chondathan: English
Chultan: Carribean
Damaran: Middle German
Dambrathan: Austrian
Durpari: Hindi
Halruuan: French
Lantanese: Brazilian
Illuskan: Swedish
Mulhorund: Hebrew
Rashemi: Russian
Shaaran: Cherokee
Tashalan: Bantu
Turmic: Spanish
Uluik: faux-Native American
Untheric: Iranian
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 00:12:15
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
To quote James Patrick Moynihan: "You are entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan? 
I am guessing when Ed's latest tome arrives, not only will we not see any screamingly obvious real-world clones (Maztica), but that it will be, at best, 'parallel development' - there may be elements that remind the reader of X or Y, but entirely indigenous.
- OMH |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 23:51:33
Yes, you're hearing voices, Dennis.
As usual, they're telling you your Realms opinions are wrong. 
And they are just that: opinions.
To quote James Patrick Moynihan: "You are entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts."
No matter how often or loudly you say this is Greece and that is England and so on, Ed designed the Realms WITHOUT direct real-world analogues. Some later designers (Troy putting the Dalai Lama in the Realms, for instance) stepped over the line and made direct analogues, but Ed didn't.
If you find it convenient to use a real-world analogue when playing your own campaign, fine. But you've said before that you don't play the game and "see" the Realms only through its fiction, so...thinking of specific real-world places while reading fiction will lead you to wrong conclusions and judgments. And if you post those judgments, you will be insulting the various writers who weren't "copying" what you think they're copying.
love,
THO |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Nov 2011 : 04:00:16
[Am I hearing voices? ]
Let me take back what I said about Luskan. The Philippines during the American indoctrination was like Luskan. |
| Blueblade |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 19:34:17
Not to be rude, but near enough for what?
Sage has just posted how they AREN'T what you say they are. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya: I do not think the words you read mean what you think they mean.
And this is a long, long running hobby horse: how Ed wants the Realms, because TSR wanted them to host adventuring in jungles, deserts/Arabian Knights, pirates, crumbling castles and knights in shining armor, etc., to EVOKE some impressions of real-world cultures (or fictional cultures) but not be COPIES of those cultures...but some later designers do try to copy some cultures...and ever since, scribes here, and other gamers, try to play the game of "Ed based this part of the Realms on that part of our real history"...when it explicitly isn't true.
When you say That is North Korea, which version of Thay? And which version of North Korea? 
BB |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 15:30:10
Ah. My comparisons are near enough. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 15:18:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Thay is North Korea. Cormyr is England.
So Saith Ed, on Thay:-
quote:
Thay was my Orient, or as close as the Realms was going to get to it: NOT Oriental human subraces, but rather a warm-climate, dusty-part-desert old and decadent slave empire ruled by people who had mastered powerful magic, shaved their heads (think: Moondragon of Marvel Comics fame), and were cruel by western standards. There was a power struggle of sorts between royalty and nobility on one hand, and these magic-strong zulkirs on the other, with tharchions (and tharchionesses) being regional governors that in the old days were “patronage appointments” given to nobles by reigning royalty, and that were increasingly being seized by zulkirs and filled by themselves or their (militarily capable, ruthless) appointees. Szass Tam was a bit of a restless maverick among the zulkirs, so to stay on top against BOTH his fellow zulkirs and the royalty, he’d have to be super-powerful, and a man who’d been anticipating attacks and treacheries for centuries and preparing for them: he always had a Plan B and C, and X, Y, and Z, all of which he could shift like puzzle pieces to respond to any threat and deflect or shatter it (usually deflect it so as to harm a rival).
And, Ed on Cormyr:-
quote:
I created Cormyr to have the Sherwood Forest/Arthur and his galloping knights of the Table Round “feel,” but to be a distinct kingdom with quite a different history. Imagine the fictional court of Camelot - - all the bickering knights, that is - - and see what happens if a royal line manages to hold the throne for centuries. Quite different from all of the fictional depictions of Arthur, who creates his own great kingdom, far more powerful than what existed before him - - a kingdom that either declines (through Constantine) or is swept away entirely after his death or departure, depending on which sources or versions of the Arthurian mythos one embraces most closely.
The various approaches to Arthur (the Christian king; the Celtic or Welsh king of England repelling or withstanding Germanic foreigners; the Celt holding together civilization after the departure of the Romans; the predestined king who fulfills his destiny, and so on) are all quite different from the concept of the Dragon Throne of Cormyr and the Obarskyrs who’ve held it. (Elves take land from dragons, arriving human settling family manages to establish a settlement, and holds it almost continuously for over a thousand years, withstanding all challenges in various ways and in the process building a strong kingdom.)
The term “Imperial Britain” of course refers to the far more recent, historical British empire (wherein the English sailed wooden ships all over the world to conquer, occupy, and exploit distant territories such as India, Canada, the colonies that later became the United States, and so on), and of course Cormyr has never had imperial ambitions. Its armies stay at home, beyond temporary occupations of pirate ports such as Teziir, patrols along its fringes (Tunland, the West Reaches, the Stonelands), and naval skirmishes with Westgate and Sembia that arise only when Cormyr is trying to keep those two rivals from cutting off access to Marsember and Suzail. So Cormyr has no correspondence whatsoever to “Imperial Britain.” Sorry.
|
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 14:41:27
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Thay is North Korea. Cormyr is England.
Shou'lung is China |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 14:38:31
Thay is North Korea. Cormyr is England. |
| Sousana |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 03:32:04
Drow maids, a painful experience.
Everyone knows the drow are wicked because there is nothing in their diet beyond spiced wine and mushrooms. You'd grow grumpy too after a few centuries. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 03:22:44
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Does this mean I have to stop running drow with French accents?
Now I will never get that out of my head. I finally understand why they like raw meat, pickled brains, snails, etc... 
And Bregan D'Aerthe - how could I have missed that? Sounds Gaulic Gallic (french-Celtic), something akin to 'brotherhood of the earth', or perhaps even 'beneath the earth'. I had always pictured Jarlaxle as one of the Three Musketeers, but now I'm thinking Cyrano de Bergerac (considered one of the finest swordsman, ever).
Now I have to ask Ed if there is such a thing as 'Drow-Kissing', 'Drow-Toast', 'Drow-fries', etc. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 03:13:31
Luskan reminds me of what the Philippines used to be during the time of Spanish colonization. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 00:19:40
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Does this mean I have to stop running drow with French accents?
Alas, c'est la vie. 
Cheers
"You don't frighten us, Elvish pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person! I blow my nose at you, so-called Am-laruil Queen, you and all your silly Elvish K-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-niggits!" |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 23:40:48
Does this mean I have to stop running drow with French accents?
Alas, c'est la vie.
Cheers |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 22:30:08
I have to ask: mythical Russia?
Are you referring to a nation of Sarmations or Kurgans, a predecessor of the barbarian cossack cavalry cultures? Russia itself, that is the area near what are now Kiev and Leningrad, was influenced more by Scandinavian and Mongol peoples than by the Slavic and Gothic sorts it is nominally associated with. |
| Sousana |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 22:19:30
To my thinking, Rashemen is the mythical Russia, where Thay is more analogous to cold war "evil Russia". It's about cliches and preconceptions, and deals little with the actual country. Thay says more vabout western views than about Russia. It's not the only instance either. There are no less than FOUR pseudo-arabic cultures around. The bedine are the bedouins, zakhara has mythic Arabia, Calimshan has more of a historic arabian feel, and we know too little about Raurin to tell. About the China versions, I believe this was discussed in Dragon somewhere. They put in two different historic eras.
But... Silver marches, High forest, Sossal as the nordic countries? Sossal and Iceland sounds reasonable, but the rest is weird. I believe the correspondence between countries is weaker in the heartlands, the regions mostly described by Ed, than the outlying areas, mostly described by others. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 21:07:35
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Agreed. And the Ancient Netheril is Greece. Even though Ed denied such association, there's so much about Netheril that screams Greece, decadence being the most notable one.
Being a professional academic specialised in the study of ancient Greece and Rome, I must point out that it is mainly Rome, not Greece, which has in the past and until now (at least in popular opinion) often been associated with "decadence." Historically, it is largely wrong and at any rate quite subjective (and for most scholarly purposes irrelevant) to associate "decadence" with either culture.
But admittedly, this thread/its underlying concept is based on stereotypes/clichés (which is fine by me, as it works nicely in entertainment contexts like RPGs and movies) so my criticism is quite irrelevant as well
Every culture (including modern ones) has decandence built in to it's every fiber. |
| Sinjin Oban |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 21:03:44
I would point out that the pirates of the Pirate Isles and the reavers of the Nelanther are vastly different. The pirates of the Pirate Isles are more like the swashbuckling buccaneers of our history and cinema. They might even have some civilized behavior when the mood strikes them. The pirates of the Nelanther are blood thirsty Orcs, Lizardmen, Minotaurs, and the sort of humans who can survive such company. |
| coach |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 02:58:49
one of the older Dragon Magazines had an article that "matched" FR places with real world places
i'll try to look it up |
| Thieran |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 19:12:05
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Agreed. And the Ancient Netheril is Greece. Even though Ed denied such association, there's so much about Netheril that screams Greece, decadence being the most notable one.
Being a professional academic specialised in the study of ancient Greece and Rome, I must point out that it is mainly Rome, not Greece, which has in the past and until now (at least in popular opinion) often been associated with "decadence." Historically, it is largely wrong and at any rate quite subjective (and for most scholarly purposes irrelevant) to associate "decadence" with either culture.
But admittedly, this thread/its underlying concept is based on stereotypes/clichés (which is fine by me, as it works nicely in entertainment contexts like RPGs and movies) so my criticism is quite irrelevant as well |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 18:34:01
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
I always associated Shade with Ancient Rome (post the assimilation of Greek culture): columns, statuary, etc.
Agreed. And the Ancient Netheril is Greece. Even though Ed denied such association, there's so much about Netheril that screams Greece, decadence being the most notable one.
-Chessenta is much more outright Greek. Netheril, I always got a sense of ancient Israel, actually- Hebrew words (or close facsimiles) are used in Netheril: Empire of Magic as names and places. The whole diaspora. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 03:17:40
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
I always associated Shade with Ancient Rome (post the assimilation of Greek culture): columns, statuary, etc.
Agreed. And the Ancient Netheril is Greece. Even though Ed denied such association, there's so much about Netheril that screams Greece, decadence being the most notable one. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 09 May 2011 : 00:38:10
It's been said that Nexal is the Aztecs, and not the Mayans which I'm pretty sure is correct considering the very similar history, founding myth, and even capital city (Nexal Valley is very much like Tenochtitlan). If you want to find Mayan, I'd look to Payit and Far Payit. There is a number of other mesoamerican analogues in the area as well including an Inca like culture in Lopango to the south, and an Anasazi based culture in Michaca to the north (aka the Azuposi). |
| Sinjin Oban |
Posted - 08 May 2011 : 23:27:39
I might note that if you read page 10 of "Questions for Ed Greenwood", (2009, I think) you can find a significant number of names for small estates around The Tashalar, but none of them conform to the stated Bantu language the area is supposed to be flavored with. Perhaps they were named during the Shoon empire's occupation?
Really this is just another example showing that while areas may have vague Earth influences to help flesh out ideas, they are not mirrors. I like being able to attach my original ideas to a place without having to conform too rigidly to a RW culture. I also appreciate being able to use pictures and sounds, (and food!) to conjure background for my players. |
| Ousia |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 21:23:27
To Eladrinstar
Could you tell me why you identify The Silver Marches with Denmark? |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 06 Oct 2009 : 00:19:34
quote:
Originally posted by jcdf
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
With the further clarification that Shou Lung is good/honorable China and T'u Lung is 'Evil China'.
Could you elaborate on this point please?
Well, it's been a while, but...
I see Shou Lung was being like China when it was under the better emperors/dynasties, the sort of China you'd find Judge Dee in. Whereas T'u Lung was described in the original Kara-Tur boxed set as having a weak central authority, with the nation divided into feudal 'kingdoms' under the great noble families. Most of whom seemed to be very nasty and utterly selfish as they were described. |
| Quale |
Posted - 01 Oct 2009 : 20:16:27
Actually I think Nog and Kadar are inspired by Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, not really real world influences, one example are the fiend lords Thasaidon and Thasmudyan. Yak-men, don't know, I guess some central asian or tibetan cultures. |
| jcdf |
Posted - 30 Sep 2009 : 23:04:52
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
With the further clarification that Shou Lung is good/honorable China and T'u Lung is 'Evil China'.
Could you elaborate on this point please?
I am curious what culture and ethnic group and language is in the Land of Yakman and the Ruined Kingdoms of Nog and Kadar? |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 21:02:49
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
quote:
Originally posted by Ikki
thay is russia.. all those slaves (serfs).. inhuman vast but inefficcient armies attacking a proud independent people, who always wins the magically, numerically and equipmentvise more powerful armies. Thus rashmen = finland
Their political position is similar that that of Finland, but it's culture is far more similar to Russia. A lot of the spirits that inhabit that land are based on Slavic folklore. Plus the implication of "Russia=ALWAYS EVIL" is seen way too often in fantasy analogues of it. Even my homebrew setting is guilty of it, the pseudo-Russia constantly invading the pseudo-Finland.
So, for my games at least, I like to portray Russia in a positive light for once.
Though I have to say, Finnic-style cultures NEVER get fantasy-analogues, and that's unfortunate. The one setting I've ever seen do that is Lyra's World from His Dark Materials. Which was literally a magical alternate history, so it replaced Finland with a race of Witches (the good/neutral kind, not the bad kind).
Definitely -- even the name (RAS-he-men) sounds phonetically close to "RUShemen". And the culture and geography reminds me of the Rus, not to mention the spirits (with names from the Slavic folklore, like you noted).
In fantasy literature, Middle-Earth has half-Inuits/half-Finns (who actually speak Finnish, but I guess that was added by the authors of the MERP accessories) living in the far north. Also, Howard's stories feature the Witches of Hyperborea, who are led by Louhi
Other than that, nothing comes to mind. Certainly no culture resembling the Finns in the Realms (note to Kajehase: no Swedish culture either, and Luskan or the Northmen in the Moonshaes don't count! ). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jan 2009 : 00:14:02
A-Hem. Topic, please? |
| Ikki |
Posted - 11 Jan 2009 : 15:18:58
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Russia didn't really do that much invading prior to the Soviet Union. They were often invaded, but very few conquerors had much luck.
The only lull was the godunov interregnum, and then they largely felt the fire of having.. err.. quintupled in size in the last 20 years by conquest.
Even pre-mongol wasnt very peaceful or non-invading.
No part of the 13-, 14-, 15- 16-, 17- or 18- hundreds were peaceful one last bit. Well aside from the above mentioned godunov era. |
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