| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Wenin |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 13:06:38
So we have Gray Orcs, Orog, and Mountain Orcs laid out in FR material. Mountain Orcs are statistically identical to Orcs in the Monster Manual. However....
In the Sons of Gruumsh, when it describes the two groups of orc emissaries, they make specific reference to one group being mountain orcs, while they other are just orcs.
So, is there a 4th orc race, which are standard, run of the mill Orc from the monster manual?
Also, does anyone have a group picture of the different orc races in Faerun, as WoTC did for the various human races?
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| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 10:48:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Why would a half ogre, half orc, become smarter? =)
OK I will give you that one. There is little logic in that development. You could think out logics around selective breeding, the harsh life of the half-breeds or heritage from more intelligent ogres of earlier ages, but it is still illogical. That doesn't change my preference for the older version though |
| Wenin |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 05:07:26
Why would a half ogre, half orc, become smarter? =)
Razz, have you looked at the Sons of Gruumsh adventure? Note how they describe the two groups of Orc Emissaries, and all the other orcs within the supplement. It specifically mentioned one group of orc emissaries to be Mountain orcs, while the rest of the orcs (besides the 3 orogs) are just... orcs.
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| Jorkens |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 11:02:25
I always preferred the old version of the orog (big surprise, eh?). I find it more useful to have them being an element of surprise when facing orcs, giving the pc's harder opponents and an excuse for the orcs to act far more tactically.
Oh, and when we are talking about halfbreeds there are also the Boogins (half orc/half quaggoths). |
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 07:03:12
Does anybody know what (may have) happened to the enslaved ondonti after the Shades blasted Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven? It would seem to me to be a good time to rise up and/or simply flee one's oppressors while they're picking chunks of masonry out of each other. 
Edit: Concerning Orogs: I made them a milder retcon in my 3.x campaigns; they're orcs with less-than-half ogre blood that now breed true among themselves, rather than being a full-blooded orcish race. It made more sense to me to keep the old definition at least partly accurate and explained by the ignorance of non-orcs at the time. |
| Razz |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 02:57:59
Mountain Orcs (standard orc)
Grey Orcs
Orogs
Ondonti
Those are the full-blooded orc races in the Realms.
For half-breeds:
Half-Orc
Tanarukk
Ogrillon [Half-Ogre/Half-Orc; use Half-Ogre template on an orc from Dragon Magazine, forgot issue #]
For magical breeds:
Red/Black Orcs (use the Blooded One template for Red, dunno for Black)
That's all I know for sure so far. Not sure about Neo-Orogs, though that can easily be done by just putting Blooded One template on an Orog.
The confusion lies in previous editions with Orogs and Ogrillons. It was said in 2E that Orogs were a half-ogre/half-orc mix where the father was an orc and the mother was an ogre, and Ogrillons were the same but vice versa (of course, I may have mixed that up myself, but you get the idea). They retconned Orogs into a full-blooded orc race tempered and adapted to the Deep Underdark regions and taking on differences from Mountain and Grey Orcs from their physical abilities and culture. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 19:12:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Orog are descendants of an orc tribe that fled into the underdark. Detailed in the Races of Faerun I believe.
I'll check my spellbound material. thanks again =)
Ah, I am still caught in the TSR editions. The heritage of the orogs are a bit unclear there, but a mixture of ogre and orc blood is strongly suspected. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 18:18:15
Orog are descendants of an orc tribe that fled into the underdark. Detailed in the Races of Faerun I believe.
I'll check my spellbound material. thanks again =) |
| Wenin |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 16:30:36
Found that the Ondonti are detailed in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep as well. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 16:19:57
Well that was painful. I managed to dig through my seldom-used heaps and have a look inside the Spellbound box. The Neo_orog's a recent (and successful) experiment of the Red Wizards are detailed in the monster-booklet found within the box and are mentioned several places in the other books. Hope that helps. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 15:54:36
I thought orog was a mixture of orc and ogre.
The Bloody Ones sounds like the same thing as neo-orog, but as 3ed. was never my thing I am not sure. I know they are found in the Monstrous Manual 3, but as this collects from different sources the first mention must be somewhere else. Its been a while since I checked the Spellbound box outside of the main book. I seem to remember there being a separate booklet of monsters, that would be a good place to start looking. I will see into it in a couple of hours. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 15:47:00
Yeah i found that the Ondonti are mentioned in the Bestiary of the Realms, Vol 1. I'm working to obtain a copy of that scroll, and Vol 2 as well.
The Neo-Orogs are seperate from the Bloody Ones, mentioned earlier in this scroll? The Bloody Ones are magically enhanced orcs, that take on a blood red look. Only mentions on the net for Neo-Orogs seems to be related to Icewind Dale, the video game.
http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/icewind/walkthrough-chapter4.shtml
Old pages on the D&D Wiki mention Neo-Orogs are half breeds between ogres and orcs, but they also say Orogs are halfbreeds as well..... so that source is clearly inaccurate. =)
If you could find the reference, that would be great. =) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 13:35:19
Both of them are detailed in 2ed. Monstrous Annual 3 at least.
For the life of me I cant remember where the Ondonti were first mentioned. They are a group of Eldath worshipping orcs (I think their statistics are a bit different also)located north-east of the Moonsea if I rememberer correctly. Slavers make their lives more and more difficult.
The Neo-Orogs are the result of a Thayan breeding program. There are two types Red (strong warriors) and Black (scouts and ambushers).I think these were seen in the Spellbound box, but I will have to check.
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| Wenin |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 01:42:37
Never heard of the Ondonti before! Thanks! Where are the Neo-Orogs from? |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 08:59:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I'm going to have to dig up my Grey box stuff, but I'm sure with time and different artists, the depictions of Orcs change.
I've come to the conclusion, that there must be four breeds of "true" orc.
Orcs, Standard
Orcs, Mountain
Orcs, Gray
Orogs
This is ignoring the various half-breeds and magically created orcs.
You could also include the Ondonti and thayan neo-orogs (red & black) in the list. These would be sub-species of the above though. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 21 Aug 2009 : 19:21:39
I'm going to have to dig up my Grey box stuff, but I'm sure with time and different artists, the depictions of Orcs change.
I've come to the conclusion, that there must be four breeds of "true" orc.
Orcs, Standard
Orcs, Mountain
Orcs, Gray
Orogs
This is ignoring the various half-breeds and magically created orcs. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 17:26:25
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Also, does anyone have a group picture of the different orc races in Faerun, as WoTC did for the various human races?
The nearest thing I can think of is the group picture of the goblinoids (which orcs were part of)in the Grey box. Great picture but it contained only one orc. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 17:24:11
Ogrillions, a mix of ogre and orc existed during the 1st and 2nd edition days, but I cant remember them having much of a role in the Realms. Or if they were ever updated to later editions. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 07:35:00
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bah, scro are the most fun flavor of orcs. 
...says the Giant Space Hamster. And the fact that you used the word "flavor" is not at all coincidental, is it?  Do Giant Space Hamsters eat scro? I don't recall... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 06:52:44
Bah, scro are the most fun flavor of orcs. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 06:23:58
I knew of the first group, though didn't mention Half-Orcs and Tanarukks, due to their half-breed-ish natures.
I wasn't aware of the Blood Orcs, thanks! =)
Still, I'm curious regarding the Mountain Orc vs Orc mystery. (at least it is to me) |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 20:56:53
Races of Faerun gives us Grey Orcs, Half-Orcs, Mountain Orcs, Orogs and Tanarukks (Gallery here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4art/20030309a)
Unapproachable East gives us Blood Orcs or Blooded Ones(Gallery: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4art/20030510a)
There are probably one or two more.
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