| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 15:46:36
We have some new Realmslore up, in the Dragon section of the WotC site.
Realmslore: Hall of the Frostmaiden
'Tis an interesting article from our own Brian R James. The ruined city in the Sionnan Lagoon is a particularly interesting tidbit. And Artus Cimber as an exarch of Auril? Interesting... The ice part makes sense, but the fact that he's a good guy makes me want to know more about this.  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 17:05:44
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, since Ao said she was dead, I think we can assume she is.
See . . . that's what he *wanted* you to think!
What better way to hide the lady of illusion than with the illusion of her death? In a way, that would be just Ao perpetuating her role in the grand balance.
The truth is out there, man!
Cheers,
Erik
(A self-avowed Realms conspiracy theorist and contributor to the "F" files. [cue music])
Don't forget that we also have several 2e and 3e sources which confirm that Leira is dead, along with what Ao said in Crucible.
There was, however, some hypothetical mental meanderings between George and Steven in '05 that basically posited the idea that Leira was still around and secretly allied with Mask. Their aim: to steal control of the Shadow Weave from Shar who they've been running as their dupe for a while now.
While hypothetical, I do like the idea of her coming back and working against Shar. It would've been interesting to see how this idea played out in 4e FR.
|
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 16:08:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, since Ao said she was dead, I think we can assume she is.
See . . . that's what he *wanted* you to think!
What better way to hide the lady of illusion than with the illusion of her death? In a way, that would be just Ao perpetuating her role in the grand balance.
The truth is out there, man!
Cheers,
Erik
(A self-avowed Realms conspiracy theorist and contributor to the "F" files. [cue music]) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 15:36:28
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I just wanted to add . . . because the Lady of Illusion is one of my faves . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Divine realms usually fall apart when the deity is gone, and even if they didn't, Leira was slain by Cyric and Mask.
. . . Or was she? 
Cheers
Well, since Ao said she was dead, I think we can assume she is. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 15:20:52
-Thats what I have always thought!
BRIMSTONE  |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 15:17:08
I just wanted to add . . . because the Lady of Illusion is one of my faves . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Divine realms usually fall apart when the deity is gone, and even if they didn't, Leira was slain by Cyric and Mask.
. . . Or was she?
Cheers |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 13:51:28
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The ruined city in the Sionnan Lagoon is a particularly interesting tidbit.
Sounds like we know where Leira's divine Realms wound up. 
That doesn't really work... Divine realms usually fall apart when the deity is gone, and even if they didn't, Leira was slain by Cyric and Mask. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 08:54:36
I'm not sure how to take this.
While on the one hand I find it a very interesting Realmslore article, on the other I find it completely useless for me to run a game. Why detail a divine Realm? Is it supposed to be an adventuring locale for high-levels?
I don't do 'epic'.
I did find the info interesting though, especially the stuff about the Queen of Air and Darkness.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The ruined city in the Sionnan Lagoon is a particularly interesting tidbit.
Sounds like we know where Leira's divine Realms wound up. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:53:57
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
I'm still hoping that the primordial the Warlock Knights of Vaasa are "mining" for power is old Talos, personally.
It's possible. However, it's also possible that it's a totally different entity that just happens to have a similar name. |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:45:33
I'm still hoping that the primordial the Warlock Knights of Vaasa are "mining" for power is old Talos, personally. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:22:22
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Talos is./was an aspect of Gruumsh? When did this happen?
At the advent of 4E.
More specifically, we don't have all the details about that yet (from a story perspective). |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:50:50
Talos is./was an aspect of Gruumsh? When did this happen? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:00:59
Well, GR, that was interesting (didn't know about Malar). Thanks for sharing your thoughts. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 08:03:53
Well, if her alignment is now CE, it is a good indicator that something has happened to Auril in the last century to push her from neutral to chaotic. Aerdrie Faenya was chaotic, and the very act of slaying Aerdrie and absorbing her persona may have been a significant influence in the alignment change. Note also that Talos turned out to be an aspect of Gruumsh and Auril disassociated herself from him. That was probably pretty traumatic too. She has been through a lot lately, no reason to think that wouldn't have a strong effect on her. Not to mention the character of the people who worship her may have changed. If the demographics of her faithful have seen a shift to the chaotic, that might be a powerful force upon her as well. There are plenty of in-game explanations for why her alignment has changed.
Oddly enough I notice that Malar has himself gone the other way. In the FRCG he is listed as evil, not chaotic evil as he was in prior editions. Which may mean his association with Silvanus has tempered him somewhat, pulled him more towards neutrality. It may mean also that Malar has taken on more civilized, rational worshipers who revere him for his control over hunting, praying for patience, keen sight, straight shooting, etc. Or then again as god of beasts, farmers may be praying to him more for animal husbandry, praying to help them control their donkey or tame a wild horse or help their oxen plow straight furrows, and this new worship could have in turn had a "taming" influence on Malar. I think that is an even more interesting alignment switch than Auril's. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 23:22:25
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And I like the fact that the "God of Fury" concept was maintained. Good stuff!
-Hence Chaotic Evil. 
Auril was a God of Fury before, and not CE. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 23:21:03
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[quote] And why is Auril now Chaotic Evil?
She was Neutral Evil before, right? That alignment isn't used in the 4E rules set (where alignment in general has a different weight and angle than in the past), so I guess they figured the 4E CE is the closest rules-based shorthand they could assign to her that fits her character (using the word in a non RPG way).
See, the 4E equivalent of NE is actually "Evil", not "Chaotic Evil". For example, Shar in 4E is Evil.
*shrug* I guess it's not a big deal, I'm just disagreeing with that particular explanation.
|
| chance87 |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 02:54:38
Let me try again, keeping to the topic this time.
Loved the piece, Brian. I appreciate the detail and the tie-ins to existing Realmslore, and found the descriptions of the godly realms to be very evocative.
You've hinted on the Wizard's site that we may see more on Ubtao's fate as well as mentioning Artus above. Can you let us know if these will be DDI articles or an upcoming print product? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 01:13:57
Let's keep it friendly fellow scribes. If you have issues with something another scribe has said, please take it to PMs.
Now, let's return to the topic of this scroll. |
| Uzzy |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 00:13:36
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
FRCG Credits
Design: Bruce R. Cordell, Ed Greenwood, Philip Athans, Richard Baker, Rob Heinsoo, Brian R. James, Chris Sims
Stay classy, chance87!
Oooh, Strawman. Stay classy, Christopher_Rowe!
As for your idea that most people are comparing the 4th Edition Forgotten Realms 'Campaign' 'Guide' to the whole of the 3rd Edition work, it's possibly true. But hey, let's compare the 4th Edition FRCG to just the 3rd Edition FRCS, and see what's more useful shall we? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 23:55:30
Oh, please, cut it out!
1. "If the FRCG would have had more content like this, I would have been happier with it" would have sufficed.
2. "Well, I enjoyed the FRCG, and expected the Insider articles to have more details, so I'm happy with this," would have been a good response.
Most people have pretty clearly stated their anti-fourth reasoning, and there are other threads for it.
Some pro fourth people probably could do with remembering that there is no "right" opinion, so telling someone they are demonstrably wrong about their own preferences doesn't really do any good either.
The article is pretty good, and its interesting, and has lots of substance in and of itself to spark discussion. Why, oh why, can't we have any kind of discussion without going round and round like this yet again?
If anyone wants to spank me or take me to task, PM me, I've already wasted enough forum space with this rant. |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 23:28:04
So, if each nation entry in the FRCG had the level of detail and raw length (with accompanying graphics) of the Cormyr article, and each Greater God and God entry had the level of detail and raw length (with accompanying graphics) of the Hall of the Frostmaiden article, how long would the FRCG have been?
Most "critiques" of the FRCG seem to compare its contents to those of all 3.0/3.5 supplements combined. For whatever that's worth.
(As an aside, most of the freelance work I've done that had to be measured against Flesch-Kincaid took the measurement of the text with proper nouns either thrown out or replaced with a neutral noun--it's of limited utility for this kind of work, even more so if you're using a software version bundled with a word processor.) |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 22:01:17
FRCG Credits
Design: Bruce R. Cordell, Ed Greenwood, Philip Athans, Richard Baker, Rob Heinsoo, Brian R. James, Chris Sims
Stay classy, chance87! |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 19:39:22
Two things struck me:
There seems to be an attempt to link Auril to the queen of the unseelie court.
The avariel seem to be on the side of evil now (Aerdrie Faenya defeated by Auril, her palace subsumed into Winter Hall, avariels as escorts of winter hags). |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 17:36:15
Thanks for the kind words folks. This article was very fun to write and even more so with Gray Richardson’s assistance. As you might suspect I tried to slip in a few nuggets of lore that would be head-scratchers for a time. Rest assured that you’ll learn more about Artus Cimber, the Stormstar Requiem, and get answers to other conundrums in future articles.
Wooly picked up on my favorite puzzle btw. What’s with the crystalline city covered in ruathlek glyphs (the secret language of illusionists from 1st-Edition) at the bottom of Sionnan Lagoon. Stay tuned. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 15:36:28
Grateful for anything on Artus Cimbar!! Thanks Brian!
Also interesting for me to learn about Auril being one of the three furies along with Malar and Umberlee, and they owe their allegiance to Silvanus, very cool. Also please that she now claims dominion over winds and storms! Great stuff! |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 03:26:51
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And I like the fact that the "God of Fury" concept was maintained. Good stuff!
-Hence Chaotic Evil.
BRIMSTONE |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 00:49:05
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[quote] And why is Auril now Chaotic Evil?
She was Neutral Evil before, right?
Yes.
...
Very interesting article Brian. But then, I'm a sucker for quality-crafted Auril lore. And I like the fact that the "God of Fury" concept was maintained. Good stuff! |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 23:52:41
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[quote] And why is Auril now Chaotic Evil?
She was Neutral Evil before, right? That alignment isn't used in the 4E rules set (where alignment in general has a different weight and angle than in the past), so I guess they figured the 4E CE is the closest rules-based shorthand they could assign to her that fits her character (using the word in a non RPG way). |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 23:38:31
Well, we didn't get our first god(ess) as monster  .
And like he hinted, Brian returned to live that sorceress I forgot how to spell the name. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 23:18:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And Artus Cimber as an exarch of Auril? Interesting...
I...really did not care for that, sorry. And why is Auril now Chaotic Evil? |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 19:17:05
Yay!
I'm sorry, I know that we're not supposed to post with just "thanks" or "I agree" or whatever.
Therefore, I add the following extra content.
Yay! Thanks! Yay! |
