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 What if -- Selunnarra returned to the Realms?

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Ardashir Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 18:25:53
I'm just wondering here -- there was a plot seed in Lost Empires of Faerun in which the players could wind up bringing the lost Netherese floating city of Selunnarra back to Faerun. Basically, a city full of aasimar trained in Selunite and Netherese magic, who are violently opposed to the Shadovar of Thultanthar. And who, I would imagine, can match them in power.

Just how would that effect the balance of power in a pre-Spellplague Realms, if such a powerful group of 'good guys' showed up to face off with the Shades?

Where would the people of Selunnarra go with their flying city, anyway? I get the idea that they'd want to be close enough to the Shades to keep an eye on them, but not so close as to make counterattacks a constant worry. I was thinking, they might wind up floating over Sembia and Cormyr?

Any help or advice on how to handle something like this would be vastly appreciated. Thanks, and may the silvery light of nSelune guide you in all darkness.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
BrennonGoldeye Posted - 19 Apr 2019 : 18:04:17
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

fine by me. It works into some of the things I've been setting up for my United Tharchs of Toril idea wherein Luneira actually transferred to Abeir during the spellplague. Mythrell'aa then hosts a weakened avatar of Leira (as in ToT form of avatar where it inhabits a human host) for some things to kick off some needs of the gods of magic. BTW, my stance for Leira is that she and Mask were playing Cyric, and that the Cyrinishad was an avatar/manifestation/divine body artifact of Leira much like Godsbane WAS Mask. Now the specific bits above about Selunnarra returning are new pieces, but the rest I'm considering as my own personal canon.



Ahahahaha, now that I love! I should get it posted on Sunday, I was going to go with NPCs first but it seems maps are wanted more.

Sam-

sleyvas Posted - 19 Apr 2019 : 17:11:06
fine by me. It works into some of the things I've been setting up for my United Tharchs of Toril idea wherein Luneira actually transferred to Abeir during the spellplague. Mythrell'aa then hosts a weakened avatar of Leira (as in ToT form of avatar where it inhabits a human host) for some things to kick off some needs of the gods of magic. BTW, my stance for Leira is that she and Mask were playing Cyric, and that the Cyrinishad was an avatar/manifestation/divine body artifact of Leira much like Godsbane WAS Mask. Now the specific bits above about Selunnarra returning are new pieces, but the rest I'm considering as my own personal canon.
BrennonGoldeye Posted - 19 Apr 2019 : 16:49:08
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always intended it as a plot hook a DM could use if they want and ignore otherwise, so I'm kind of glad WoTC never did anything with it.

--Eric



If you had brought them back, how would you have handled their return?



One of two ways ...

1) Guns blazing. During the resulting battle in the skies over Anauroch, both vanish to another plane through a rift torn in the skies by the wild use of Art, and neither city is ever seen or heard from again.

2)Subtly. Selunarra works carefully and through proxies to slowly bolster allied realms against all manner of threats, including the Shades. Eventually, the shades discover Selunarra's return to the Realms, whereupon Shar dictates that they refocus their efforts on opposing the followers of Selune, not empire-building. Both Shade and Selunarra fade into the background of the Realms as lurking presences in the skies overhead whose agents engage in clandestine battles across Faerun. Far fewer shades walk the Realms, but their plots become more intricate.

--Eric




OOOOOOO OOOOO OOOOO how about

Option 3)

Long ago the Netherese enclave of Doubloon disappeared. It was noted as an enclave with the ability to turn invisible. Unbeknownst to the realms at large, when Halruaa was formed, this enclave was one of its methods used to transport Netherese to Halruaa. Centuries later, when the Leirans left Halruaa, they secretly stole the enclave and used it as part of their means of transporting themselves to Nimbral. Not wanting to appear weak, the Halruaans cover this act up.

Many years later, Nimbral begins interactions with spelljamming races. They learn of the concept of series helms and manage to acquire a dozen such helms and tie them into the enclaves mythallar. This enables the enclave to move at an enormously slow speed into orbit. People watching the sky during this time note a strange blurriness that seems to be crossing the horizon. This enclaves serves as a hidden defense and warning system for Nimbral outside of the atmosphere. Eventually the church of Leira begins to cover up stories of this enclave, and its rumored that some of its adherents travel to Selune.

Centuries pass.

1318 DR - Mythrell'aa, Zulkir of Illusion, in searching out lore on Netherese spell mantles runs across an entry on a Netherese flying enclave, known as the city of Doubloon, which disappeared some years prior to Karsus' Folly and which was rumored to be able to hide itself from all magic known at that time.

1328 DR - Mythrell'aa, Zulkir of Illusion, assaults a Halruaan exile, rumored to have been amongst the original red wizards who helped rise up against the Mulhorandi centuries ago. The female had been employing spies and peering too closely into Thayan business ventures surrounding the formation of a Thayan enclave in Soorenar. The woman manages to escape through the aid of another renegade red wizard and Halruaan exile, the archmage Velsharoon the Vaunted. From the history books left behind by woman, Mythrell'aa reads of a "flying city which could make itself invisible which aided the Netherese diaspora in finding a new homeland to the south".

1330 DR - Following up on leads she found in Lerian religious texts surrounding the Exodus of Leirans, Mythrell'aa sets out to secretly invade the Isle of Nimbral in order to seek lore on the lost Netherese flying enclave of Doubloon. She learns that the flying city left the island centuries ago loaded with humans and tall elves to visit the stars.

1334 DR - Using an illusion to appear as Knights of the Flying Hunt, Zulkir Mythrell'aa and a select band of thayans loyal to her approach an incoming spelljamming vessel off the coast of Nimbral. Slaughtering its crew, they then take said vessel into orbit, whereupon they discover that the moon is inhabited by Leirans, though where these inhabitants learned of the religion is a secret she is unable to have revealed.

1356 DR - Using her mastery of the arcane arts, rumors gained from a captured spelljamming crew, Mythrell'aa is finally able to find the "lost" Netherese enclave of Doubloon floating amongst the Tears of Selune. The city is inhabited by humans and elves with ties to the surface cities of Nimbral, having long ago separated themselves from their former nation. Mythrell'aa sends several of her agents to infiltrate the colony and soon learns things are not as they seem, but that there are mysteries within mysteries occurring in this city and upon the moon's surface.

1360 DR - Mythrell'aa's spies in the flying city of Doubloon uncover several plots involving doppelgangers and illithids. By carefully revealing these plots and their plotters to the people of Doubloon, the Zulkir of Illusion is able to replace the current leadership with her own lieutenants and select individuals within the colony who will work towards its success. Contact between the citizens of Doubloon and the Leiran Trading Center are strained as the leader of the moon's colony, Phlandra Alabaster, has disappeared, and many of the moon's inhabitants blame the surface worlders who have recently arrived.

1362 DR - Mythrell'aa finds and frees Phlandra Alabaster, but coerces her fealty in return for her life and the keeping of her secrets. She further improves upon this fealty with magical compulsions. Mythrell'aa establishes herself as the ruler of the flying city of Doubloon, which she renames Luneira.

1365 DR - Red Wizards, funded by Mythrell'aa and Samas Kul of the Guild of Foreign Trade, secretly develop the Quad Helm. While unable to traverse outside the crystal sphere, these extremely fast helms make illicit transport of goods between Thayan Enclaves a reality without all the dangers implicit with setting up multiple portal networks. Production begins on several Quads of Thay, and Mythrell'aa has many of them assigned to Luneira without Samas Kul's knowledge.

1372 DR - Mythrell'aa is alerted by her lieutenants that an ancient table map of Faerun in Luneira just suddenly "came back to life" showing a glowing black floating enclave. Further inquiry reveals that a group calling itself the Shadovar have come to Faerun. Apparently the "bandits" who ran the Doubloon Enclave had created the map to keep track of other Netherese enclaves by tracking their mythallars.

1375 DR - Civil War breaks out in Thay

1377 DR - Mythrell'aa is alerted by her lieutenants that the ancient table map of Faerun in Luneira just suddenly revealed the appearance of another enclave named Selunnarra. Mythrell'aa commands that they simply watch and learn what they can of this colony, who over the next few years seems focused on

1378 DR - Thayan wizards under the command of Mythrell'aa, using illusions and shapechanging magics to appear as Shadevari, attack the enclave of Selunnarra in a quick strike and attempt to sow chaos and make off with as much magic as they can to aid the war effort at home.

1379 DR - Mulan agents, acting as spies of Mythrell'aa, deliver information through channels to the Shadevari about the current location and prior activities of Selunnarra. Other Mulan agents inform the people of Selunnarra of an impending attack. Mythrell'aa's red wizards use the cover of the conflict to capture several Shadovar mages. Using spells to tear into their minds, she learns many secrets of Shade enclave. She then modifies the captives' memories into believing they are on a mission to assault the forces of Szass Tam upon the command of Telamont Tanthul. The Shadovar mages are killed, but not before delivering a devastating blow to Tam's forces.

1379 DR - Agents of Selunnarra find the remains of the ancient Netherese port of Yeoman's Loft, wherein they find a pair of ancient helms still active. Intent to visit the moon, sacred land of Selune, they arrive only to find the moon populated. The current ruler, Phlandra Alabaster, sees the arrival of "moon priestesses intent to take over Leira" as proof that her suspicions of surface worlders were correct. Secretly calling upon Zulkir Mythrell'aa, they capture the Selunnarrans, seize their vessels, and implant memories of illithids capturing their ship and overthrowing the crew into a single "survivor" whom they "allow to escape".

1380 DR - Using illusions to make the captured Selunarran ship appear to be Dragonships, and occupying the bodies of several Shou inhabitants of Thesk, Mythrell'aa and her red wizards secretly assault and capture four dragon ships of Kara-Tur. Blame is placed upon Wa by a survivor who escapes. Much of the crew survives, but become mind controlled servants of the colony of Luneira.

1381 DR - a Wa Tsunami spelljammer is assaulted by four dragonships and two of the captured spelljammers from Selunnarra. The Tsunami is captured intact by spellcasters who transport into key portions of the vessel via magic and overthrow its pilots and commanders while under the guise of mages of Selunarra. Half of the vessels locusts however are able to escape, including one containing an implanted mage-priestess of Leira from Luneira, and they report to the Emperor of Wa that the Shou have made alliances with an ancient Netherese force in the east. Several months later, the enclave of Selunnarra suddenly finds itself under assault by a fleet of Wa dragonships, Tsunamis, and locusts. Selunnarra's skyships are assaulted and fail against the more maneuverable and combat ready locusts. Not built with extreme defense in mind, the many colleges, universities, and libraries of Opus/Selunnarra suffer under this assault, and many of the Aasimar of Selunnarra are slain. However, the battle quickly turns against the Kara-Turans when the spellcasters of Selunnarra recover. The mage-priestess of Leira, still amongst the people of Wa, lays the blame on the Shadevari and Shou Lung for manipulating the Kara-Turans in front of both groups before "barely escaping with his life" using shadow based magic. The emperor of Wa, dishonored at being duped, declares his friendship with the enclave of Selunarra and vows to aid them in an assault on Shade enclave.

1385 DR - After receiving a vision from Leira herself, Mythrell'aa decides it is time to fake her own death and attend to matters in Luneira. Tharchioness Dmitra Flass is elected to become the next Zulkir of Illusion, but is later killed by Malark Springhill. Using a powerful ritual, Mythrell'aa effects a change in the minds of others that her name is "Mythrellan" and that she died at the hands of Szass Tam's forces.





Holy Moonbow Philip, I might just have to add some of that in to what Im posting, with your permission of course. I need more history in my timelines since I haven't touched the project since 3.5.

Sam/Bren
sleyvas Posted - 18 Apr 2019 : 22:26:59
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always intended it as a plot hook a DM could use if they want and ignore otherwise, so I'm kind of glad WoTC never did anything with it.

--Eric



If you had brought them back, how would you have handled their return?



One of two ways ...

1) Guns blazing. During the resulting battle in the skies over Anauroch, both vanish to another plane through a rift torn in the skies by the wild use of Art, and neither city is ever seen or heard from again.

2)Subtly. Selunarra works carefully and through proxies to slowly bolster allied realms against all manner of threats, including the Shades. Eventually, the shades discover Selunarra's return to the Realms, whereupon Shar dictates that they refocus their efforts on opposing the followers of Selune, not empire-building. Both Shade and Selunarra fade into the background of the Realms as lurking presences in the skies overhead whose agents engage in clandestine battles across Faerun. Far fewer shades walk the Realms, but their plots become more intricate.

--Eric




OOOOOOO OOOOO OOOOO how about

Option 3)

Long ago the Netherese enclave of Doubloon disappeared. It was noted as an enclave with the ability to turn invisible. Unbeknownst to the realms at large, when Halruaa was formed, this enclave was one of its methods used to transport Netherese to Halruaa. Centuries later, when the Leirans left Halruaa, they secretly stole the enclave and used it as part of their means of transporting themselves to Nimbral. Not wanting to appear weak, the Halruaans cover this act up.

Many years later, Nimbral begins interactions with spelljamming races. They learn of the concept of series helms and manage to acquire a dozen such helms and tie them into the enclaves mythallar. This enables the enclave to move at an enormously slow speed into orbit. People watching the sky during this time note a strange blurriness that seems to be crossing the horizon. This enclaves serves as a hidden defense and warning system for Nimbral outside of the atmosphere. Eventually the church of Leira begins to cover up stories of this enclave, and its rumored that some of its adherents travel to Selune.

Centuries pass.

1318 DR - Mythrell'aa, Zulkir of Illusion, in searching out lore on Netherese spell mantles runs across an entry on a Netherese flying enclave, known as the city of Doubloon, which disappeared some years prior to Karsus' Folly and which was rumored to be able to hide itself from all magic known at that time.

1328 DR - Mythrell'aa, Zulkir of Illusion, assaults a Halruaan exile, rumored to have been amongst the original red wizards who helped rise up against the Mulhorandi centuries ago. The female had been employing spies and peering too closely into Thayan business ventures surrounding the formation of a Thayan enclave in Soorenar. The woman manages to escape through the aid of another renegade red wizard and Halruaan exile, the archmage Velsharoon the Vaunted. From the history books left behind by woman, Mythrell'aa reads of a "flying city which could make itself invisible which aided the Netherese diaspora in finding a new homeland to the south".

1330 DR - Following up on leads she found in Lerian religious texts surrounding the Exodus of Leirans, Mythrell'aa sets out to secretly invade the Isle of Nimbral in order to seek lore on the lost Netherese flying enclave of Doubloon. She learns that the flying city left the island centuries ago loaded with humans and tall elves to visit the stars.

1334 DR - Using an illusion to appear as Knights of the Flying Hunt, Zulkir Mythrell'aa and a select band of thayans loyal to her approach an incoming spelljamming vessel off the coast of Nimbral. Slaughtering its crew, they then take said vessel into orbit, whereupon they discover that the moon is inhabited by Leirans, though where these inhabitants learned of the religion is a secret she is unable to have revealed.

1356 DR - Using her mastery of the arcane arts, rumors gained from a captured spelljamming crew, Mythrell'aa is finally able to find the "lost" Netherese enclave of Doubloon floating amongst the Tears of Selune. The city is inhabited by humans and elves with ties to the surface cities of Nimbral, having long ago separated themselves from their former nation. Mythrell'aa sends several of her agents to infiltrate the colony and soon learns things are not as they seem, but that there are mysteries within mysteries occurring in this city and upon the moon's surface.

1360 DR - Mythrell'aa's spies in the flying city of Doubloon uncover several plots involving doppelgangers and illithids. By carefully revealing these plots and their plotters to the people of Doubloon, the Zulkir of Illusion is able to replace the current leadership with her own lieutenants and select individuals within the colony who will work towards its success. Contact between the citizens of Doubloon and the Leiran Trading Center are strained as the leader of the moon's colony, Phlandra Alabaster, has disappeared, and many of the moon's inhabitants blame the surface worlders who have recently arrived.

1362 DR - Mythrell'aa finds and frees Phlandra Alabaster, but coerces her fealty in return for her life and the keeping of her secrets. She further improves upon this fealty with magical compulsions. Mythrell'aa establishes herself as the ruler of the flying city of Doubloon, which she renames Luneira.

1365 DR - Red Wizards, funded by Mythrell'aa and Samas Kul of the Guild of Foreign Trade, secretly develop the Quad Helm. While unable to traverse outside the crystal sphere, these extremely fast helms make illicit transport of goods between Thayan Enclaves a reality without all the dangers implicit with setting up multiple portal networks. Production begins on several Quads of Thay, and Mythrell'aa has many of them assigned to Luneira without Samas Kul's knowledge.

1372 DR - Mythrell'aa is alerted by her lieutenants that an ancient table map of Faerun in Luneira just suddenly "came back to life" showing a glowing black floating enclave. Further inquiry reveals that a group calling itself the Shadovar have come to Faerun. Apparently the "bandits" who ran the Doubloon Enclave had created the map to keep track of other Netherese enclaves by tracking their mythallars.

1375 DR - Civil War breaks out in Thay

1377 DR - Mythrell'aa is alerted by her lieutenants that the ancient table map of Faerun in Luneira just suddenly revealed the appearance of another enclave named Selunnarra. Mythrell'aa commands that they simply watch and learn what they can of this colony, who over the next few years seems focused on

1378 DR - Thayan wizards under the command of Mythrell'aa, using illusions and shapechanging magics to appear as Shadevari, attack the enclave of Selunnarra in a quick strike and attempt to sow chaos and make off with as much magic as they can to aid the war effort at home.

1379 DR - Mulan agents, acting as spies of Mythrell'aa, deliver information through channels to the Shadevari about the current location and prior activities of Selunnarra. Other Mulan agents inform the people of Selunnarra of an impending attack. Mythrell'aa's red wizards use the cover of the conflict to capture several Shadovar mages. Using spells to tear into their minds, she learns many secrets of Shade enclave. She then modifies the captives' memories into believing they are on a mission to assault the forces of Szass Tam upon the command of Telamont Tanthul. The Shadovar mages are killed, but not before delivering a devastating blow to Tam's forces.

1379 DR - Agents of Selunnarra find the remains of the ancient Netherese port of Yeoman's Loft, wherein they find a pair of ancient helms still active. Intent to visit the moon, sacred land of Selune, they arrive only to find the moon populated. The current ruler, Phlandra Alabaster, sees the arrival of "moon priestesses intent to take over Leira" as proof that her suspicions of surface worlders were correct. Secretly calling upon Zulkir Mythrell'aa, they capture the Selunnarrans, seize their vessels, and implant memories of illithids capturing their ship and overthrowing the crew into a single "survivor" whom they "allow to escape".

1380 DR - Using illusions to make the captured Selunarran ship appear to be Dragonships, and occupying the bodies of several Shou inhabitants of Thesk, Mythrell'aa and her red wizards secretly assault and capture four dragon ships of Kara-Tur. Blame is placed upon Wa by a survivor who escapes. Much of the crew survives, but become mind controlled servants of the colony of Luneira.

1381 DR - a Wa Tsunami spelljammer is assaulted by four dragonships and two of the captured spelljammers from Selunnarra. The Tsunami is captured intact by spellcasters who transport into key portions of the vessel via magic and overthrow its pilots and commanders while under the guise of mages of Selunarra. Half of the vessels locusts however are able to escape, including one containing an implanted mage-priestess of Leira from Luneira, and they report to the Emperor of Wa that the Shou have made alliances with an ancient Netherese force in the east. Several months later, the enclave of Selunnarra suddenly finds itself under assault by a fleet of Wa dragonships, Tsunamis, and locusts. Selunnarra's skyships are assaulted and fail against the more maneuverable and combat ready locusts. Not built with extreme defense in mind, the many colleges, universities, and libraries of Opus/Selunnarra suffer under this assault, and many of the Aasimar of Selunnarra are slain. However, the battle quickly turns against the Kara-Turans when the spellcasters of Selunnarra recover. The mage-priestess of Leira, still amongst the people of Wa, lays the blame on the Shadevari and Shou Lung for manipulating the Kara-Turans in front of both groups before "barely escaping with his life" using shadow based magic. The emperor of Wa, dishonored at being duped, declares his friendship with the enclave of Selunarra and vows to aid them in an assault on Shade enclave.

1385 DR - After receiving a vision from Leira herself, Mythrell'aa decides it is time to fake her own death and attend to matters in Luneira. Tharchioness Dmitra Flass is elected to become the next Zulkir of Illusion, but is later killed by Malark Springhill. Using a powerful ritual, Mythrell'aa effects a change in the minds of others that her name is "Mythrellan" and that she died at the hands of Szass Tam's forces.

TBeholder Posted - 17 Apr 2019 : 19:36:16
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy

In all serious though, I think if Selunnarra did reappear in the Realms, it'd have led to a decline in Shade influence, given that practically every organisation and country in the region disliked them, and a mass of holy warriors to crack down on anything that looks even remotely like Shade activity. I'd place it just on the southern tip of the Anauroch, close to Evereska. It'd be a fun epic campaign, though it'd be closer to a Crusade style game then one of intrigue and politics.

The Netherese who remember (if mostly in stories) elves of Eaerlann's "Silver Age" and the Crown Against Scepter Wars era discover what modern elves became.
The only way to make it more bitterly ironic would be them trying to make a power base din Vilhon Reach.

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

1) Guns blazing. During the resulting battle in the skies over Anauroch, both vanish to another plane through a rift torn in the skies by the wild use of Art, and neither city is ever seen or heard from again.

2)Subtly. Selunarra works carefully and through proxies to slowly bolster allied realms against all manner of threats, including the Shades. Eventually, the shades discover Selunarra's return to the Realms, whereupon Shar dictates that they refocus their efforts on opposing the followers of Selune, not empire-building. Both Shade and Selunarra fade into the background of the Realms as lurking presences in the skies overhead whose agents engage in clandestine battles across Faerun. Far fewer shades walk the Realms, but their plots become more intricate.

Indeed. ...aka Cartoonish Way and the Realms Way.
That could be really cool if done right.
It helps that Selune is also the goddess of navigation, too. So there are two big Netherese groups at each other's throats, neighbours, hidden Netherese survivors, all the "nevar forget! hate Netheril!" groups (including Cult of the Shattered Peak, Olin Gisir and other puppets of Elves and/or Phaerimm), those who own old Netherese stuff - Arcane Brotherhood, Skullport, Sshamath... looks like a fun mess.

Alas, who would bet the Wiz'bro as it is today would do it the Realms Way rather than run one ZOMG!!1 "event" and retcon away its rubble for the next?..
BrennonGoldeye Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 16:16:04
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always intended it as a plot hook a DM could use if they want and ignore otherwise, so I'm kind of glad WoTC never did anything with it.

--Eric



I kind of figured that. I'm very grateful that WotC left some areas blank for DM's to play with. I mapped and NPC'd it all out over a decade ago when I first joined up here. Lord Karsus and I had tons of Epic level discussions. I never had them worrying about Shade, they were a fun way to link the other planets in the system to Toril and the Gates of the Moon. Eric, I will be slowly posting my stuff out in the Sages FB group by request. Let me know what ya think!

Sam/Bren
Wooly Rupert Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 10:05:23
I like that second option. Less of the Shades under every rock approach WotC took, and more opportunity for role-playing by getting caught up in the intrigues of the two groups.
ericlboyd Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 05:28:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always intended it as a plot hook a DM could use if they want and ignore otherwise, so I'm kind of glad WoTC never did anything with it.

--Eric



If you had brought them back, how would you have handled their return?



One of two ways ...

1) Guns blazing. During the resulting battle in the skies over Anauroch, both vanish to another plane through a rift torn in the skies by the wild use of Art, and neither city is ever seen or heard from again.

2)Subtly. Selunarra works carefully and through proxies to slowly bolster allied realms against all manner of threats, including the Shades. Eventually, the shades discover Selunarra's return to the Realms, whereupon Shar dictates that they refocus their efforts on opposing the followers of Selune, not empire-building. Both Shade and Selunarra fade into the background of the Realms as lurking presences in the skies overhead whose agents engage in clandestine battles across Faerun. Far fewer shades walk the Realms, but their plots become more intricate.

--Eric
Wooly Rupert Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 04:51:04
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I always intended it as a plot hook a DM could use if they want and ignore otherwise, so I'm kind of glad WoTC never did anything with it.

--Eric



If you had brought them back, how would you have handled their return?
ericlboyd Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 04:49:50
I always intended it as a plot hook a DM could use if they want and ignore otherwise, so I'm kind of glad WoTC never did anything with it.

--Eric
Wooly Rupert Posted - 16 Apr 2019 : 03:35:25
quote:
Originally posted by BrennonGoldeye

Hello all, just wondering if WotC ever did anything with Selunarra I missed, Im in one of the FB groups and am going to supply my version of Opus.. Maps, NPCS and all. I have tied in all the "older" lore I know of so just checking for anything new.Any help would be appreciated!

Sam/Bren



Nope. It was tossed out there as a potential hook, and then otherwise ignored.
BrennonGoldeye Posted - 15 Apr 2019 : 19:35:02
Hello all, just wondering if WotC ever did anything with Selunarra I missed, Im in one of the FB groups and am going to supply my version of Opus.. Maps, NPCS and all. I have tied in all the "older" lore I know of so just checking for anything new.Any help would be appreciated!

Sam/Bren
Wooly Rupert Posted - 15 Apr 2013 : 00:08:00
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage




I don't mind the approach of "mortals can't understand it all!", so long as it doesn't retcon anything. The Tree violated many planar references of prior editions, particularly when it made travel to some planes more difficult than it had been before. I'm really not a planar fan, but I am a huge fan of maintaining continuity.
[/quote]

I didn't mind the tree, so long as it was viewed as just another conceptual connection between the planes. It harkened back upon earlier 1st & 2nd E stuff, though it went about it a bit literally for my liking. The primary connections between the outer planes are intellectual and as such can be visualized in limitless ways.
[/quote]

It wasn't how the connections were visualized that bugged me... It was that in 1E and 2E, Deity A lived on Plane 1, and with 3E, Plane 1 no longer existed; the deity now lived on a different plane that wasn't quite the same, and instead of being a realm on that plane, the deity's home was now the entirety of it. And, on top of that, we were told that "to go from this plane to that, you have to go here, first" -- when in prior editions, you could go directly from one to the other. There's only so much that can be waved away with a perception explanation, and some of the 3E planar changes broke prior planar canon.
The Masked Mage Posted - 14 Apr 2013 : 19:29:47
[/quote]

I don't mind the approach of "mortals can't understand it all!", so long as it doesn't retcon anything. The Tree violated many planar references of prior editions, particularly when it made travel to some planes more difficult than it had been before. I'm really not a planar fan, but I am a huge fan of maintaining continuity.
[/quote]

I didn't mind the tree, so long as it was viewed as just another conceptual connection between the planes. It harkened back upon earlier 1st & 2nd E stuff, though it went about it a bit literally for my liking. The primary connections between the outer planes are intellectual and as such can be visualized in limitless ways.
Gyor Posted - 13 Apr 2013 : 14:23:56
I do think no matter what cosmology your using certain established locations need to be acknowledged, such as various domains of Gods, and places visited like the Shadowfell and the Feywild and even Sigil amoung others.
The Sage Posted - 12 Apr 2013 : 03:19:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

I think the plane for the 5e cosmology for the realms is the true nature of the planes is beyond mortal compershion and each way of organizing the planes by mortals such as the Great Tree, The Great Wheel, Thethe 4e axis only have part of the answers.

Thier will probably be universal element appliable to all, such as the various dominions of the Gods like the Towers of Night, Gates of the Moon, and so on, plus the Shadowfell and the Feywild (abit under different names under different organizational systems).





I don't mind the approach of "mortals can't understand it all!", so long as it doesn't retcon anything. The Tree violated many planar references of prior editions, particularly when it made travel to some planes more difficult than it had been before. I'm really not a planar fan, but I am a huge fan of maintaining continuity.

That's why I tend to think Ed's view on the planar framework often works best. Which I'll re-quote here for the benefit of those scribes not familiar with his take:- "The Great Wheel or any other cosmology doesn’t bother me, just as avatar stats and the endless “but this god came first, or can beat that god” arguments don’t: mortal PCs can’t know the truth about the gods anyway, because every in-game source (supreme priests, avatars of the gods themselves, holy writings) they could possibly learn all this stuff from is biased. Everything. So it really is all up to the DM."

That really tackles the continuity conflict issues... and allows for practically every interpretation of the Realms cosmology as per the whim of the DM.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 16:11:08
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

I think the plane for the 5e cosmology for the realms is the true nature of the planes is beyond mortal compershion and each way of organizing the planes by mortals such as the Great Tree, The Great Wheel, Thethe 4e axis only have part of the answers.

Thier will probably be universal element appliable to all, such as the various dominions of the Gods like the Towers of Night, Gates of the Moon, and so on, plus the Shadowfell and the Feywild (abit under different names under different organizational systems).





I don't mind the approach of "mortals can't understand it all!", so long as it doesn't retcon anything. The Tree violated many planar references of prior editions, particularly when it made travel to some planes more difficult than it had been before. I'm really not a planar fan, but I am a huge fan of maintaining continuity.
Darkmeer Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 14:36:51
And I can reference some of reconciliation work. Here's my Scroll.

I tried to hold as true as possible, and there were some edits before I ran out of time for this scroll. Now, 5 years later, I have every intention of getting through the Giant and other Monstrous pantheons.
Gyor Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 14:13:05
I think the plane for the 5e cosmology for the realms is the true nature of the planes is beyond mortal compershion and each way of organizing the planes by mortals such as the Great Tree, The Great Wheel, Thethe 4e axis only have part of the answers.

Thier will probably be universal element appliable to all, such as the various dominions of the Gods like the Towers of Night, Gates of the Moon, and so on, plus the Shadowfell and the Feywild (abit under different names under different organizational systems).

The Sage Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 13:47:28
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

I've never understood the cosmology after Planescape. Maybe the concept of the multiverse was too confusing if someone only had realms products... but I felt that it could be simplified to deific realms being the cosmos but on a deeper level those realms are within other planes?

I've tried to explain the changes between the planar frameworks of both 2e and 3e in section D.1 of the site's 'Code of Conduct.' See the link in my signature.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 12:50:56
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

I've never understood the cosmology after Planescape. Maybe the concept of the multiverse was too confusing if someone only had realms products... but I felt that it could be simplified to deific realms being the cosmos but on a deeper level those realms are within other planes?



I think that is the easiest, non-retcon solution: the planes and planar domains of the Tree are simply layers/areas on the planes of the Wheel.
MrHedgehog Posted - 11 Apr 2013 : 11:32:55
I've never understood the cosmology after Planescape. Maybe the concept of the multiverse was too confusing if someone only had realms products... but I felt that it could be simplified to deific realms being the cosmos but on a deeper level those realms are within other planes?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 12:56:43
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

(Does Ysgard still exist at all or did planescape just get let go?)



Well, Sigil was mentioned in a couple of 3E products... But since the planar structure of the post-2E Realms is different, one could assume that Ysgard still exists, just not somewhere easily accessible from the Realms.

My personal preference would obviously be to un-retcon the planar changes and make the necessary tweaks to later material.
MrHedgehog Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 06:02:57
When the ruler of Opus/Selunnara disapeared she could still be alive. Maybe she went to the Gates of the Moon to do tell Selune? Maybe she was involved in bringing the city into the Gates of the Moon?

(Does Ysgard still exist at all or did planescape just get let go?)
Gyor Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 04:11:07
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Well, if the return of Shade can be it's own series, Selunnarra might have a chance.

However, this is probably further down the line, maybe when the Realms need to be shaken up some more. So I would assume that is when 5E comes out.



Guess what 5e's coming now!
Dennis Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 06:05:30
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by dennis


I think WotC is saving Selunarra for the time when the Shadovar have to be eliminated, that is, when people grow tired of them...Who else is better to vanquish the Netherese than their fellow Netherese?!

I've been wondering, during the time of Old Netheril, (Karsus's time), who's the archwizard who ruled Selunarra, and does he/she still rule it up to now?





Well, the boxed set mentions a couple of rulers, but the one who ruled when Netheril fell isn't mentioned. We know the previous ruler found out Karsus was up to something and went to confront him about it, and then she disappeared. It's not mentioned who her replacement was.



I read of that somewhere here in CK before, or perhaps in other sites. But there was no name revealed at all. Didn't Ed mention anything about it? Oh, well, perhaps I'd better ask him or THO.
Dennis Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 06:01:07
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If I brought it back at all, it probably wouldn't be in the Heartlands. Perhaps in Kara-Tur or Maztica... someplace far-afield.


Of course, having them appear over Thay could be a real blast.



Agreed!
Markustay Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 16:29:17
If I brought it back at all, it probably wouldn't be in the Heartlands. Perhaps in Kara-Tur or Maztica... someplace far-afield.

But still following the pattern Wooly outlined, albeit more surreptitiously. I'd have them sending in hit-squads to specific locales and destroying 'nests of evil', that sort of thing.

If it were 4e, I would bring them back into the massive bay that used to be Halruaa - rebuild that nation using those guys.

Of course, having them appear over Thay could be a real blast.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 16:02:42
quote:
Originally posted by dennis


I think WotC is saving Selunarra for the time when the Shadovar have to be eliminated, that is, when people grow tired of them...Who else is better to vanquish the Netherese than their fellow Netherese?!

I've been wondering, during the time of Old Netheril, (Karsus's time), who's the archwizard who ruled Selunarra, and does he/she still rule it up to now?





Well, the boxed set mentions a couple of rulers, but the one who ruled when Netheril fell isn't mentioned. We know the previous ruler found out Karsus was up to something and went to confront him about it, and then she disappeared. It's not mentioned who her replacement was.
Lady Kazandra Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 08:03:31
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Well, to quote myself...

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I see Selunarra picking out a mostly empty area of the North and claiming it for themselves. It wouldn't be for conquest, as much as giving them a place to use for producing food and goods. The city itself would prolly wander quite a bit, within its chosen territory.

Individual Selunarrans would protect that area, but also work directly with local power groups like the Harpers. The city would officially be friendly to the Lords' Alliance and the Harpers, though they wouldn't join the former. The Harpers, they'd be friendly to and offer support, maybe even allowing a permanent Harper presence. But it would be like the Harpers and the Lords of Waterdeep -- they would support each other, for the common good, but there would also be times the locals would have to tell the Harpers that a particular Harper goal was not a shared goal, and that it would be a Harper-only effort.

I see the Selunarrans as opposing the Shades, the Zhents, and other evil power groups, but mostly when those groups were acting in the area. Zhents attacking Shadowdale wouldn't be a concern, for example. The Selunarrans would go out of their way to oppose the Shades, but it would only be when the Shades were trying to pull something that negatively impacted others, and it would be as indirect (or at the least, not overt) as possible.



Wooly, that's perfect. If and when I incorporate the Shadovar in my games, I'll be using this to support it.

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