| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bocklin |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 10:15:24
Hello,
I just read the very good and very useful "Volo's Guide" article in Dragon 354 by Eric L. Boyd. It puts things nicely in order and provides you with a timeline of major events in Cormanthor during the last three DR years.
It even seems to introduce the events that lead to the second FR super module of the year (The Scouring of Shadowdale).
SPOILER WARNING - SCOURING OF SHADOWDALE - Players read no further
And that's where I find myself a bit surprised by the lack of creativity in one specific aspect.
On page 74, entry for Nightal 15, 1374 DR, it indicates that Sharran assassins attack El's tower and that the good old wizard vanishes/is hurled into another plane.
AGAIN?!?
Wasn't it the trick the Shadovars pulled on him last time (interaction Weave-Shadow Weave tears him into hell)? One would think he'd take precautions for the next time...
I usually leave the Chosen entirely out of my FR games (and in-game world depiction for that matters), so I do not really need a "trick" to convince my players that Elminster is unavailable to solve these problems.
I just think it's hard to believe - for those that stick with the old man - that he'd be tricked into this a second time...
And where did the Sharrans sent him this time? Shadow Plane? Negative Energy plane? Walmart?
Bocklin |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bocklin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 08:21:07
Well the discussions here made me feel like I should have a good look at this one. I have ordered it and hope to receive the book today.
What I have heard so far makes me feel good about the direction the book is taking (and the plot seems a bit thicker and more interesting than C:TotW).
Bocklin |
| Chyron |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 07:48:57
I am just curious at this point, given the more 'epic' nature of this adventure in contrast to Cormyr (and by epic I mean real continuity shaping events) can we expect this trend to carry over from here to the 3rd part, or will that shift back to be more of an isolated adventure (as the Cormyr adventure was)? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 04:58:42
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I doubt that the Zhents have figured this out, since Steven pretty clearly pointed out that the events of the novel would take a very long time to shake out and be known to most people.
Ditto. I think the timing is just a coincidence. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 04:32:03
I don't know about that . . . but it does help to explain where several powerful NPCs are during this timeframe. I doubt that the Zhents have figured this out, since Steven pretty clearly pointed out that the events of the novel would take a very long time to shake out and be known to most people. |
| Calrond |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 04:28:47
SPOILERS for Blackstaff
Did anybody else look at the date this stuff happens in the Realms and notice that it happens only 2 weeks after the events in Blackstaff? (Khelben dies on The Feast of the Moon, and this happens Nightal 15, 1374.) Does it seem interesting to anyone else that as soon as Khelben dies, the Zhents get a little eager for conquest? We all know about the deal Khelben made with Fzoul to restrict Zhent activity, so I'm thinking that somehow word might have gotten to Fzoul that Khelben wasn't around anymore to hold up his end of the agreement. Definitely wasn't Sememmon or Ashemmi, but someone who knew about the ritual and Khelben's death and stood to benefit from being an informant to the Zhents might have told Fzoul what he needed to know.
Of course, the deal involved land "east of the Thunder Peaks", which Shadowdale isn't, but it's awfully close. I just see this increased activity so soon after Khelben's death as being connected somehow to it. What do you guys think? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 02:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ddporter
Is it open season on Mystra's Chosen? Sammaster, Khelben, Halaster and now...
Coincidence?
Shar?
Or...?
Well, Halaster wasn't a Chosen of Mystra. But the "spirit" of your comment echoes my own sentiments. Which is sad, because other than that, the module sounds interesting and I rather like the NP/VP system that was mentioned before.
And Sammaster lost his Chosen status centuries ago. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 02:51:29
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Do we get any word, [other than the quick comments in the synopsis, see the excerpts up on WotC's site], on what Storm, El, and the other very influential characters are doing during this time? Don't get me wrong; I'm fine with them not being around, as its more plaussible and gives the PCs some chance to shine. I'd still like to know what goes on with them though.
There's a brief discussion of what they are doing offstage and why Storm and Dove and Elminster are not onstage. However, the focus is not to explain what they are doing, but why the fate of Shadowdale is being left to the PCs.
quote:
Does the adventure's conclusion feature any information on how the Cormanthor War is going?
No more than Dragon #354. However, if the PCs are victorious, they significantly impact the larger war. This is the western flank, after all.
quote:
Do we learn more about the current status of the Warblade? [I'm personally fine with spoilers on any point, as it'll probably be a while before I can get my hands on the tome.]
Yes. The PCs can recover it.
quote:
When it was originally determined that this adventure trilogy would be wrapped up with the Shades, Shar, and things of a generally shadowy nature, I immediately worried: Will these modules effect Paul Kemp's Twilight War in major ways? Myself, I'd rather the adventure storyline was designed so as not to "steal thunder" from the novels, or visaversa. Just something to ponder...
Paul and I spoke to make sure the two plots were compatible, yet independent.
quote:
Question: Wonder who'll take up the lordship of Shadowdale now? Didn't Mourngrym arrange for the position to be hereditary?
The new lord is left up to the PCs. There was no designated heir. Lordship in Shadowdale goes with possession of the Pendant of Ashaba. Plus, Mourngrym is somewhat tarnished and leaves to rejoin the Knights unless the PCs convince him to stay. A PC can take the position or it can be bequeathed to an NPC. There's a strongly suggested NPC in the adventure (who is identified as the future lord for continuity reasons), but it's the PCs' choice.
--Eric |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 02:15:21
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
I personally fall into the camp that doesn't see the "power level" in the Realms as a problem, at all, but I know there're those who do think this is an issue.
I'm in the same camp--I think it's a non-issue. I believe anyone who thinks powerful characters have to be disposed of in order to "make room for players, and let them be the stars" does not understand the nature of these characters. They can't be everywhere or do everything. And many people who complain about them also admit that they don't use or like this setting to begin with. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 02:09:29
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Spoilers below:
.
.
.
.
.
Wonder who'll take up the lordship of Shadowdale now? Didn't Mourngrym arrange for the position to be hereditary?
My answer: As far as I recall, he didn't specifically arrange it that way. I know he was grooming his son for the position, possibly (something to that effect), and that some people disliked the idea of a hereditary ruler in Shadowdale. But I didn't get the impression that rulership there was made officially hereditary. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 02:01:59
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
My thoughts are that nature does not like a vaccum and it's not just the choosen. Azon has passed on as well as well as Halaster and Scylla. We must also remember that Mystra's Chosen at least knew that they can't last forever. As soon as they learn that they are just living on borrowed time, they start to plan their legacies.
I don't mean to come off so negatively on this topic (I hope I don't seem TOO negative). And I certainly advocate new characters, by all means. However, in my case (I can't speak for everybody), the older characters are the ones I have a connection to, emotionally. Tsarra, for example, is nice enough, but doesn't carry the "weight" with me as a lover of the Realms like Khelben did. These older characters were there when I first fell in love with the Realms several years ago--heck, they were part of the reason why I fell in love with the setting in the first place. So, if too many of these characters are knocked down in a short amount of time, it feels as though the elements of the setting that I enjoy so much are disappearing.
"Oh boo hoo", I know. Having dealt with the death of a loved one in the not too distant past, I know that there are more important things in life. But while real life changes very rapidly, the Realms is a place I visit precisely for a change of pace. I know the Chosen of Mystra won't last forever, but does that mean they have to go "on my watch"? I hope you catch my meaning. This just happens to be a subject I'm passionate about.
And as I said, the rest of the module looks intriguing, from the other "tidbits" that have been revealed here. I'm not trying to leave the impression that this whole module "sucks" or anything, I'm just expressing disappointment at what appears to be a growing trend that I dislike.
Take care,
RF |
| initiate |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 01:36:42
I've tried to write this post a couple of times now, and have now realized that I could write an essay length ramble on what's been discussed here. I'll try to keep myself confined to a few questions and comments.
Do we get any word, [other than the quick comments in the synopsis, see the excerpts up on WotC's site], on what Storm, El, and the other very influential characters are doing during this time? Don't get me wrong; I'm fine with them not being around, as its more plaussible and gives the PCs some chance to shine. I'd still like to know what goes on with them though.
Does the adventure's conclusion feature any information on how the Cormanthor War is going? Do we learn more about the current status of the Warblade? [I'm personally fine with spoilers on any point, as it'll probably be a while before I can get my hands on the tome.]
When it was originally determined that this adventure trilogy would be wrapped up with the Shades, Shar, and things of a generally shadowy nature, I immediately worried: Will these modules effect Paul Kemp's Twilight War in major ways? Myself, I'd rather the adventure storyline was designed so as not to "steal thunder" from the novels, or visaversa. Just something to ponder...
Spoilers below:
.
.
.
.
.
Wonder who'll take up the lordship of Shadowdale now? Didn't Mourngrym arrange for the position to be hereditary?
I know that this is sensitive ground, trodden before, but I have to comment/ask: I'm not opposed to "Realms shaking events" as such, [as mentioned earlier change has to happen, and can often be interesting]. But ... seriously, what gives? The last year, [both in publication and chronologically], has seen the deaths of Khelben, Halaster, and now Sylune. I'll add my voice to the scribes above: is it coincidence? Is it a design decision? I personally fall into the camp that doesn't see the "power level" in the Realms as a problem, at all, but I know there're those who do think this is an issue. Also, as others have commented, this dispatching of major characters is becoming a trend. Though I haven't seen this adventure, I think I'm happy with the events within; they seem to take place for good reasons, and to have been considered carefully by designers who genuinely care. After all, as pointed out earlier, there must be a price for upheavals such as this, even when, as now, that price is deeply sad for those who love the setting and its characters. But where does it stop? I'm all for upheaval now and then, but I'm getting rather "war weary" at this point. When does peace time come again to fair Faerun?
Finally: looking forward to reading the module. Looks like its packed with Realmslore references, as well as having an exciting plot. An updated look at Shadowdale will be very nice too.
|
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 01:31:40
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ddporter
Is it open season on Mystra's Chosen? Sammaster, Khelben, Halaster and now...
Coincidence?
Shar?
Or...?
Well, Halaster wasn't a Chosen of Mystra. But the "spirit" of your comment echoes my own sentiments. Which is sad, because other than that, the module sounds interesting and I rather like the NP/VP system that was mentioned before.
My thoughts are that nature does not like a vaccum and it's not just the choosen. Azon has passed on as well as well as Halaster and Scylla. We must also remember that Mystra's Chosen at least knew that they can't last forever. As soon as they learn that they are just living on borrowed time, they start to plan their legacies.
We can see some of those with the Harpers, the Moonstars, the Lord's Alliance, the apprentices and a who lot more. The city of Hope that Khelban help bring about with his own sacrifice might bring more potential positive activities then the old Blackstaff could create in a dozen lifetimes. Plus there is the new Blackstaff to keep his legacies alive.
Sylune had the power of Savras at her command, which granted her the power to spy on the Gods themselves. I can see her peeking at her death and moving to build something to aid those she leaves behind. I think that Sylune like most of the choosen have many more secrets then Ed is telling us right now.
It also brings up the question of who might step up to power left behind by the passing of the old guard. I can see that new characters will rise, but as long as they are created by those who care like Ed, Eric and Steven, we will still have a welcoming home in the realms. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 01:17:54
Ed has specifically said, in more then one reply here at Candlekeep, that Halaster is NOT a Chosen of Mystra. We do know he is [was] something, but he isn't a Chosen.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 00:23:15
quote:
Originally posted by ddporter
Is it open season on Mystra's Chosen? Sammaster, Khelben, Halaster and now...
Coincidence?
Shar?
Or...?
Well, Halaster wasn't a Chosen of Mystra. But the "spirit" of your comment echoes my own sentiments. Which is sad, because other than that, the module sounds interesting and I rather like the NP/VP system that was mentioned before. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 00:18:45
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well the second case mentioned by Hoondatha does not bother me, more the opposite. Now the first one is another story; one more canon case I will not include. But, some changes must be made I guess, and you cant make everyone happy.
Just to clarify (highlight for spoiler):
The bit about Scyllua Darkhope meeting her end does not bother me at all. I do not care about that character. It's Sylune's fate that saddens me...and it seems like almost a repeat of what happened to Khelben (IMO). |
| ddporter |
Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 00:09:06
Is it open season on Mystra's Chosen? Sammaster, Khelben, Halaster and now...
Coincidence?
Shar?
Or...? |
| turox |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 23:45:21
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
Is there any word on how to segue from the first module to the second?
If you take a look at the last post on page 2 of this scroll Eric talks a little bit about that. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 23:33:13
Is there any word on how to segue from the first module to the second? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 21:32:57
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One other thing that struck me as interesting: the Black Beast of Bane. It says that, like his son Xvim, the reborn Bane likes manifestations involving evil critters and carnivores. Looking at Faiths & Avatars, that seems to be more of Xvim thing, and not something that Bane 1.0 did all that much. Maybe I'm reading into it because I want to, but that seems to me to be another indication that there is still a lot of Xvim in Bane 2.0. This, of course, supports my two favorite (and opposing) theories of Bane's return -- the "What the hey, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm really Bane, not Xvim!" theory. But I'm prolly just reading too much into it. 
Glad you're having fun speculating. ;-)
--Eric
... And Eric makes his "Sidestep Giving Anything Away" check!   |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 21:30:46
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, and what was Xvim's fascination with altering beasts? Could it come back to his birth? Was his mother some kind of infernal lyncanthrope? I mean, was Bane REALLLYYYYY Kinky?
Xvim's mom was a weredemon. And it's a little known fact, but Bane is Zeus's evil little brother. 
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 21:04:41
Hmmm, and what was Xvim's fascination with altering beasts? Could it come back to his birth? Was his mother some kind of infernal lyncanthrope? I mean, was Bane REALLLYYYYY Kinky? |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 15:50:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In other notes... It was cool to see Lashan of Scardale again -- most unanticipated, but quite cool. I like the way he was brought back.
I wanted to play with this tidbit and it was the best way to give the Sharrans inside info on Sylune's Achille's heel.
quote:
And Aumry being an Obarskyr? Wow! If I ever knew that one, it had totally slipped my mind. It's interesting, though.
That's new. I asked Ed when I realized there was no last name given ever and he surprised me with that one. We'll need to figure out where he fits in the family tree ...
quote:
I liked seeing Mourngrym's son have a name other than "Scotti", which I never liked.
You and Rich!
quote:
The reason Mourngrym was cooperating with the Zhents was a nice one, too.
Compare this to the opening scene of Paul Kemp's first novel.
quote:
Aumry's staff of the night -- I just reread that old article ("Bazaar of the Bizarre", Dragon 173) a couple of months ago. It's great to see lesser-known bits of Realmslore come back like that!
Glad you liked it. I always enjoyed those old magic item articles by Ed.
quote:
One other thing that struck me as interesting: the Black Beast of Bane. It says that, like his son Xvim, the reborn Bane likes manifestations involving evil critters and carnivores. Looking at Faiths & Avatars, that seems to be more of Xvim thing, and not something that Bane 1.0 did all that much. Maybe I'm reading into it because I want to, but that seems to me to be another indication that there is still a lot of Xvim in Bane 2.0. This, of course, supports my two favorite (and opposing) theories of Bane's return -- the "What the hey, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm really Bane, not Xvim!" theory. But I'm prolly just reading too much into it.
Glad you're having fun speculating. ;-)
--Eric |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 05:09:56
Maybe it's your previous speculations that lead the designers to include such a thing  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 04:17:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One other thing that struck me as interesting: the Black Beast of Bane. It says that, like his son Xvim, the reborn Bane likes manifestations involving evil critters and carnivores. Looking at Faiths & Avatars, that seems to be more of Xvim thing, and not something that Bane 1.0 did all that much. Maybe I'm reading into it because I want to, but that seems to me to be another indication that there is still a lot of Xvim in Bane 2.0. This, of course, supports my two favorite (and opposing) theories of Bane's return -- the "What the hey, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm really Bane, not Xvim!" theory. But I'm prolly just reading too much into it.
I don't think so. And this is very interesting.
If you remember, Wooly, during some of our earlier discussions about Bane's return, we speculated that Bane may have been experiencing some difficulties in completely subsuming the remnants of Xvim's essense. This was reflecting one of your theories about Xvim having more of a place in Bane 2.0's essence, and the fact that Bane 2.0 is essentially using Xvim's colours.
Bane's hand is squeezing the green rays [of Xvim] -- and if we look at that from the "Bane-eventually-subsumes-Xvim" stand point, that image itself could suggest Bane is perhaps closing in around Xvim's remnants, or rather, slowly squeezing it out of existence (or rather again, completely consuming it). Or, alternatively, looking at it from your perspective, with Xvim maintaining some place in Bane 2.0, maybe Xvim is fighting to maintain himself in spite of Bane's apparent [and overriding] presence.
This Black Beast tidbit may be a reflection of the fact that Xvim still has some fight left in him, and that he was [somehow] solely responsible for its creation.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 03:55:23
I got the book today... Actually, my girlfriend ran by my FLGS and picked it up for me, because we had a family commitment in Orlando immediately after I got out of work. So my only chance to go thru the book was while she was driving us there...
Dang, there is a body count in there! 
Someone must have hit the entire Realms with that supposedly Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times."
In other notes... It was cool to see Lashan of Scardale again -- most unanticipated, but quite cool. I like the way he was brought back.
And Aumry being an Obarskyr? Wow! If I ever knew that one, it had totally slipped my mind. It's interesting, though.
I liked seeing Mourngrym's son have a name other than "Scotti", which I never liked.
The reason Mourngrym was cooperating with the Zhents was a nice one, too.
Aumry's staff of the night -- I just reread that old article ("Bazaar of the Bizarre", Dragon 173) a couple of months ago. It's great to see lesser-known bits of Realmslore come back like that!
One other thing that struck me as interesting: the Black Beast of Bane. It says that, like his son Xvim, the reborn Bane likes manifestations involving evil critters and carnivores. Looking at Faiths & Avatars, that seems to be more of Xvim thing, and not something that Bane 1.0 did all that much. Maybe I'm reading into it because I want to, but that seems to me to be another indication that there is still a lot of Xvim in Bane 2.0. This, of course, supports my two favorite (and opposing) theories of Bane's return -- the "What the hey, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm really Bane, not Xvim!" theory. But I'm prolly just reading too much into it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 02:55:45
quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Sure. Now all I have to do is figure out how to do the spoiler part.
Great! Thanks for the info.
Hidden comment :
I am surprised that Rich Baker took part in the dispatching of Syllua. I thought she was one of his creation and that he liked it/hoped to see more of her in action in the future. But I might be mistaken...
Actually, I recall Rich Baker saying that he only contributed the most basic aspects of the character. It was, apparently, Duane Maxwell and Sean Reynolds who did most of the work on fleshing out her history and stats. I seem to recall it being said that Duane was really happy about the character and did some early work on her.
|
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 20:29:04
Actually, I liked the Notoriety Point system for the exact point you mentioned: the tension between needing the Dalesfolk to rally behind you and not getting pounded flat by the Zhents. That was a nice touch.
My problem with the low VP total is that it makes it really easy for just one or two decisions ("Aww, heck with it, let's just kill that winter wolf!") to completely remove any chance of victory without DM and players needing to invent more stuff for them to do, especially if they miss just one big one (any of the 5 pointers). While I agree it should be hard to dislodge an army, and that many of the VP's come from the general course of the adventure (Sylune, killing the drow, Castle Krag, etc.), I still would have liked a larger margin. Say 37 or 38. But that's just me.
And I never read the Cormyr adventure, so I can't say for certain, but from what I read, it's so loosely coupled that I didn't notice any connection at all (though I skipped the "How to get your players into the adventure" section, so may have missed it). There's a much closer tie to the 3rd adventure, due to finding a note on one person you have to kill (see VP problem above), and a Towerkin ring (nice to see those again) on another NPC you have to kill. Just enough to get players interested and ready to hare off to deal with them. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 16:43:08
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
My thanks for the clear explanation Mr. Boyd. It certainly sounds more promising, than I had anticipated  . I have seen a fair share of adventures as both a DM and a player where NPC X, Deity Y or Super Artifact Z suddenly comes in to play right at the end to save the day(and as a player I always hated those ).
Aww, but Deity Y is just trying to get some more worshippers... He just needs a few more to be able to get a proper name! |
| Chyron |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 15:50:05
My thanks for the clear explanation Mr. Boyd. It certainly sounds more promising, than I had anticipated . I have seen a fair share of adventures as both a DM and a player where NPC X, Deity Y or Super Artifact Z suddenly comes in to play right at the end to save the day(and as a player I always hated those). |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 17 Jul 2007 : 15:23:33
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
It will be a few weeks before my copy arrives in the snail mail. Can you possibly elaborate on some of the game mechanics being called for? Are we looking at Heroes of Battle rules or D&D Minis rules for battles?
I am a bit wary of the notion that a single party can somehow rally a defeated (and with the NPC losses, likely moraly broken) folk of Shadowdale to overthrow an occupying Zhent army. Would I be correct in assuming that there is a 'deus ex machina' involved at some point?
There's no deus ex machina.
The Notoriety Point system is intended to address how the PCs, through adventuring and gaining notoriety for their deeds, inspire the Dalesfolk to rebellion.
There's also a series of goals the PCs can achieve that give the PCs and their allies added advantages, such as additional allies, flying mounts, and a unique, semi-secret transportation system.
--Eric |
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