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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Victor_ograygor Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 13:18:16
Do you want Myrukul and Bhaal back?

This is my firs poll, i hope i am doing it right.

Reasons for this new thread.

I am not the bigest fan of Cyric, and if i coud meake a wish i woud whant Myrkul and bhaal back.

If you whant Cyric/ Bane to stay, vote for them, if you want Bhaal - Myrkul -Iyachtu Xvim - Leira back vote for them.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
ZeshinX Posted - 04 Sep 2013 : 04:37:24
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
It seems several of us want to see Velsharoon get ahold of the crown of horns and "something" happen as a result. Personally, I've always favored Velsharoon more. However, I also long favored the idea that Velsharoon had used the phylactery of Mellifleur to become a deity, and that somewhere in Velsharoon's godliness is Mellifleur's personality buried. It would be extremely interesting to me if Velsharoon were actually several beings' consciousness sharing divinity (i.e. Velsharoon, Mellifleur, and Myrkul) and that these consciousnesses may work against each other. For instance, Velsharoon may help Mystra, but Myrkul may send an avatar to help bring back Talos, meanwhile Mellifleur may actually try to help the demi-lich Ythazz Buvaar or Larloch.



Interesting, though if there's a deity that could benefit from multiple personality disorder, it would be Cyric. That might actually make him somewhat interesting.
sleyvas Posted - 04 Sep 2013 : 04:34:08
or another take on the aforementioned... Myrkul doesn't want the responsibility of being a god, so he decides to take on the role of advisor to Velsharoon, much as Jergal did for him, but with a darker bent. He helps reveal secrets that Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul had long ago discovered. Possibly he tries to get Velsharoon to side with his old friends, or possibly the exact opposite. He does advise against Velsharoon giving his undying loyalty to Mystra, hoping to forestall her gaining the power she once held.
sleyvas Posted - 04 Sep 2013 : 04:26:59
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX

I'd vote for Myrkul, but I already had him back in my campaign before we switched to playing in Golarion.

Velsharoon sought and acquired the Crown of Horns in an effort absorb the vestiges of Myrkul's divinity in the Crown, thereby increasing his own divine powers. Unfortunately for him, Myrkul's essence was too much for him and Velsharoon found his divinity being absorbed by Myrkul (Myrkul's own experiences ascending from mortality and his familiarity with souls and life/death, even in his diminished state, were still well beyond Velsharoon's capabilities to counter). Thus, Myrkul was "reborn" and became the god of undeath and necromancy in my campaign (an irony he found he rather enjoyed, having been "reborn" into undeath by cheating his former portfolio of Death).

Before we switched to Golarion, Myrkul was busy tracking down the Spirit Eater of Rashemen (a creation of his) in an attempt to re-absorb the divine essence he placed in it as a contingency against his death, hoping to elevate himself to lesser power status.



It seems several of us want to see Velsharoon get ahold of the crown of horns and "something" happen as a result. Personally, I've always favored Velsharoon more. However, I also long favored the idea that Velsharoon had used the phylactery of Mellifleur to become a deity, and that somewhere in Velsharoon's godliness is Mellifleur's personality buried. It would be extremely interesting to me if Velsharoon were actually several beings' consciousness sharing divinity (i.e. Velsharoon, Mellifleur, and Myrkul) and that these consciousnesses may work against each other. For instance, Velsharoon may help Mystra, but Myrkul may send an avatar to help bring back Talos, meanwhile Mellifleur may actually try to help the demi-lich Ythazz Buvaar or Larloch.
ZeshinX Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 18:01:37
I'd vote for Myrkul, but I already had him back in my campaign before we switched to playing in Golarion.

Velsharoon sought and acquired the Crown of Horns in an effort absorb the vestiges of Myrkul's divinity in the Crown, thereby increasing his own divine powers. Unfortunately for him, Myrkul's essence was too much for him and Velsharoon found his divinity being absorbed by Myrkul (Myrkul's own experiences ascending from mortality and his familiarity with souls and life/death, even in his diminished state, were still well beyond Velsharoon's capabilities to counter). Thus, Myrkul was "reborn" and became the god of undeath and necromancy in my campaign (an irony he found he rather enjoyed, having been "reborn" into undeath by cheating his former portfolio of Death).

Before we switched to Golarion, Myrkul was busy tracking down the Spirit Eater of Rashemen (a creation of his) in an attempt to re-absorb the divine essence he placed in it as a contingency against his death, hoping to elevate himself to lesser power status.
Mystic Lemur Posted - 03 Sep 2013 : 17:29:16
Somehow I doubt "all" the old gods are coming back. I mean, I'd love to see Tyche in action but that would involve getting rid of two other gods. And for some, like Moander, being a "dead god" is kind of their thing. Bringing them back would make them much less interesting.

I voted for Kelemvor, because I got into the Realms in 3rd edition and he's always been my favorite. I love playing Paladins of Kel who focus on hunting down undead. I think the God of the Dead should have a vested interest in eliminating undead. You can't cheat Death forever.
Drustan Dwnhaedan Posted - 02 Sep 2013 : 23:07:40
Hmmm... This one's a toughie (with one exception). It's a pity I can only pick one. So... I vote for Kelemvor. I like the idea of a death god who preaches acceptance of death, as opposed to 'kill as many people as possible before you die yourself'-types that seem to be popular in High Fantasy settings. If I could, I would vote for all the others on the list except Cyric. He really is nothing more than a self-important git. Okay, those aren't quite my own words, but if I wrote what I really think he is, it'll be heavily censored, so I opted for something slightly more polite. (Only slightly, though.)
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 01 Sep 2013 : 22:07:44
Somebody's got a big head...... The REAL Ao KNEW who took the tablets- he just booted everyone out as a "lesson".
LordAo Posted - 29 Aug 2013 : 20:50:28
If I payed more attention to detail, how did my tablets get stolen, or need to do this sundering business. Please, I have other things to take care of then little murder minions.
Bhaal Posted - 29 Aug 2013 : 18:15:20
His spelling is also atrocious. I mean, "bahhal"? The real Lord Ao would have much better attention to detail. He also wouldn't stoop to using regular posting methods. He'd have invasive popup windows with lots of angry GIFs involving Samuel Jackson that couldn't be moderated by a mortal.

LordAo Posted - 29 Aug 2013 : 07:11:26
If we do get this lifeburst thing, then I want some unknown long forgotten gods to show up an dmake everyone go


OH S*** WE KILLED YOU ALREADY! I want some like old doomsday from obscure early day lore , not bahhal but something really really vast and just outright makes the gods seem like new baby powers and forces Ao to step in and lock it back up and shows that he does not run the entire show.


Mod Edit: Watch the language, please.





CorellonsDevout Posted - 29 Aug 2013 : 05:52:30
They may all be coming back, but people still have their favorites and those they would most like to see come back.
Gyor Posted - 29 Aug 2013 : 04:45:41
The point of this thread moot, they're all coming back. Apparently the Sundering of Abier and Toril releases a great burst of life force throughout the cosmos restoring all the dead Gods to life. Makes me think of Nuclear Fission, splitting a atom releasing powerful energy, splitting worlds apart appears to do the same, only the energy released isn't heat and radiation, its lifeforce, abit probably not in the Mortal Sense, but rather divine life force.
Rolk Flameraven Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 08:05:33
With Cyric "imprisoned" in the Supreme Throne. Could he loose most of his power over the next 1000 years. Run into what is lift of Valigan Thirdborn now that Tyr is dead and come back as the god of Anarchy?

I for one like Kel just as he is. One of my players would love for Bhaal to come back just so he can kill him and take his job and Xvim is a beater Bane then Bane IF he is just using the name of her father and I love that idea.

Though I must ask, with this question of bringing back dead gods. Just how many people would you need to have worshiping you to

A)Ascend as Tchazzar did.

B) Wake up, as I'm planning on having Auppenser be in my arcane magic dead Realms

C) Come back from the Dead.

I would guess it would have to be a lot or Dead gods wouldn't stay dead right? Or is it just that the new god goes, all hail the new god of "X" in a dream to all (most) of the Clerics of the old god and there is this mass conversion so the old god just stays dead?
sleyvas Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 18:46:01
I voted Leira, but I'd love to see both Bane and Xvim back, and possibly at odds. Myrkul I'd love to see more involved with the world, but not back as a deity. Personally, I'd most like to see Velsharoon back, and his religious symbology would show him wielding the Skull Staff of Necromancers (which according to my homebrew lore is also a vestige phylactery), wearing the crown of horns, with the phylactery of Mellifleur hanging on a chain from his belt, the tooth necklace of Thasmudyan encircling his neck, and possibly a rod of obsidian and iron topped with a human skull and studded with blood rubies. Then put forth a theory that Velsharoon is actually controlled by Myrkul... and vice versa... and throw in Thasmudyan.... and Mellifleur... and Tenebrous....

Then I would say bring back Kiaransalee as well and have it be that Kiaransalee and Velsharoon are a joined pair in death, both having found their "soulmate" in the other (not that they wouldn't harm each other if they had a reason to).... and both hate Orcus.
Therise Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 18:27:01
Cyric is really one of those "hot button" issues for a lot of people.

For those who have been around from the very beginning, like me, I think we tend to see Cyric as an undeserving upstart and "wannabe" deity who has never lived up to his potential. He's always been treated like an unthinking lackey or flunky in most novels, and his priests have been (largely) little more than jokes in the game. It didn't help that the Avatar novels (aka Time of Troubles) were considered some of the worst-executed fiction ever produced for the Realms, very much disliked by fans at the time. Even in the old Baldur's Gate CRPG, his priests were just a joke.

On the other hand, a lot of people came to the Realms much later, when Cyric had been around a good while. I can totally understand that if you came in during late 2E or 3E, Cyric's written description seems pretty "badass" on the surface. And if your DMs at home have used him to good effect, it certainly makes even more sense why you might like him.

For myself, back in the misty days of 1E adventuring, our DM quite masterfully used Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to -really- good effect. For us, Bane was a complex and devious tyrant deity. Bhaal was the stuff of nightmares and screams in the night. And Myrkul was perhaps the best IMO because his manifestations sometimes were quiet and still - but at other times, terrifying and horrific. It helped, certainly, that our group fought against a very clever sect of Myrkul's priests who nightmarishly controlled a disparate group of Cormyrean nobles by animating their dead relatives into unlife. It was a mixture of politics, terrorism, and fear, and it was brilliant.

Cyric on the other hand, meh. Despite the events in the Avatar series, nothing about him says "I earned my divinity" or even that he is worthy of being worshiped. Personally, for 5E it wouldn't make much sense to just kill him. But the theme of power continually slipping from his grasp should be his story. He allied with Shar, after all, so it makes sense that he should lose almost everything. Perhaps retain him as a very minor demigod of madness, carelessness and idiocy, with mortals using his story as a "life lesson" of one's reach seriously exceeding one's grasp.

KacyCrawford Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 17:46:50
I have voted for Cyric
daarkknight Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 15:11:04
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Oh, and as long as we're talking about Mask and Leira in the same sentence. We often hear of gods being "in love", but they're always good deities it seems. Personally, I would find it very interesting if Mask and Leira were intimated as being in love (especially if Mask got the intrigue portfolio back). Him being a lord of shadows... her being a lady of illusions... both being master tricksters.... if what they were pulling off was some major divine "con job", this would be perfect.



This I would get behind in a heartbeat. Not only do you get a major power player "tag team," but you'd also, if you wanted as a DM, get to play off of each other. As in do they truly have each other's back or is she pulling the illusion over his eyes and is he just stringing her along to benefit his intrigues.
sleyvas Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 13:57:00
Oh, and as long as we're talking about Mask and Leira in the same sentence. We often hear of gods being "in love", but they're always good deities it seems. Personally, I would find it very interesting if Mask and Leira were intimated as being in love (especially if Mask got the intrigue portfolio back). Him being a lord of shadows... her being a lady of illusions... both being master tricksters.... if what they were pulling off was some major divine "con job", this would be perfect.
sleyvas Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 13:53:59
quote:
Originally posted by LastStand

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I like having Kelemvor, because he's fair but firm, and I think the god of death should be neutral. I voted for Leira, since you could vote for one, but I like Kelemvor



I prefer the deity of death to be neutral as well - although more chaotic neutral with a hint of wickedness. That said I like the Raven Queen more than Kelemvor in this regard.

My vote goes to Leira. It would be so appropriate if her death was just a big scheme concocted by mask and herself - and if it results in Leira and Mask returning.

Not a fan of Cyric.



Putting in my vote for...loving that idea.
sleyvas Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 13:51:50
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I agree with you Eltheron. WotC has made a lot of mistakes lately. I haven't completely given up on them, because I still love the Realms, but there are some things I'm not happy about. But I'm not in control, so there isn't a whole lot I can do, except maybe complain XD

Anyway, I've never been fond of Cyric myself, but I don't think they should get rid of him. I'm tired of deities dying. I actually kind of liked Cyric when he was mortal, but I'd read other books before the Avatar series, so I knew what he became. I think he had a thing for Midnight, and maybe, maybe he was jealous of Kelemvor.



They don't need to kill him. He's entrapped in his domain right now. If his domain had a sudden portal to the place where vestiges go open up and he got sucked in.... he'd make a great vestige for binders I believe.
LastStand Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 11:22:05
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I like having Kelemvor, because he's fair but firm, and I think the god of death should be neutral. I voted for Leira, since you could vote for one, but I like Kelemvor



I prefer the deity of death to be neutral as well - although more chaotic neutral with a hint of wickedness. That said I like the Raven Queen more than Kelemvor in this regard.

My vote goes to Leira. It would be so appropriate if her death was just a big scheme concocted by mask and herself - and if it results in Leira and Mask returning.

Not a fan of Cyric.
MrHedgehog Posted - 02 Dec 2012 : 00:43:00
That was directed at Eltheron (the person who said he was not buying realms products...)

Kelemvor became a Greater Deity instantly, too. Does that bother anyone? (and if you consider 4e anything to base anything on, I don't, then Asmodeus?)
CorellonsDevout Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 23:23:32
I'm still buying Realms products. I buy a lot of them, actually. Never said I wasn't. I want to see where the world is going. I'm invested in it (in more ways than one). In fact, I've been keeping an eye out for which novels are coming out. Cyric is not the reason I would stop buying them either. He's not THAT big of a deal, I just don't like him, and I was using him as an example because he's the current topic of conversation (and admittedly I did forget when the Avatar series came out). But as I said, I don't want him to die, either. I'm tired of deities dying.

Guess I should have been more clear, and I suppose mistakes are bound to happen, I just agree that Cyric's ascension to greater godhood happened really fast, and it seems like they had it that way so there could be an instant replacement to those who died, because they needed -someone- to fill the void that was left. Though I guess a similar thing happened with Torm. He became the Threefold God when Tyr and Helm died. It just seemed...rushed is all, but maybe that's the way the cosmos (and Ao?) works. Otherwise...chaos and destruction! Hmm...
MrHedgehog Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 21:55:57
When Cyric took on the mantle of Myrkul, Bane, and Bhaal he presumably absorbed any worship directed at them and sent visions/emissaries etc. to convert people. It seems perfectly logical to me that he was instantly a Greater deity. Especially if the possession of portfolios increases your power, not just reverence for you.

Cyric's madness and fumbling as an evil deity is endearing. He's crazy like an unstable serial killer, not like a mad tyrant. I like that. Who needs subtlety when you are insane? His chaotic evil alignment was a huge void in the pantheon in my opinion. I find him far more interesting than Bane, Bhaal or Myrkul. Wizards probably does research to see what people like and Cyric makes the cut. The books about the Cyrinshad, his trial, and so forth are some of my favourite novels in the realms. (Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep not so much....I couldn't finish Waterdeep) The authors use him because he is an excellent character. He is included in products because people like him.

He was also created in 1988 it seems weird that you're talking about not buying realms products because of him now :S That is the year I was born.
CorellonsDevout Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 20:26:01
I agree with you Eltheron. WotC has made a lot of mistakes lately. I haven't completely given up on them, because I still love the Realms, but there are some things I'm not happy about. But I'm not in control, so there isn't a whole lot I can do, except maybe complain XD

Anyway, I've never been fond of Cyric myself, but I don't think they should get rid of him. I'm tired of deities dying. I actually kind of liked Cyric when he was mortal, but I'd read other books before the Avatar series, so I knew what he became. I think he had a thing for Midnight, and maybe, maybe he was jealous of Kelemvor.
daarkknight Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 15:43:27
The end game of my final 2E campaign was involved a Nimbrese mage cutting a deal with Iyachtu Xvim and both of them (along with the other PCs and allies of Xvim) attacking Cyric on his home plane. The deal was that the mage, Larshan, would get the portfolio of illusion, and Xvim could take tyranny back from Cyric.

They succeeded, and as has been the standard of all of my campaigns since then, Larshan has been the god of illusion and Xvim transformed back into Bane. And I've never touched Cyric since.
Eltheron Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 11:38:42
I completely loathe Cyric and his addition to the Realms. Even after all these years, I can't stand him and never used him in my games.

Some people like to think that he's a kind of "Chaos" deity, or a "Troublemaker" deity. In the novels, he has certainly been all over the place and caused a lot of (usually ridiculous) trouble. Then he "went mad" and "got cured" and finally decided to murder Mystra. He's definitely active. WotC has tended to treat him as a favored character with a lot of plot armor.

But my distaste for him stems from several big plot and thematic reasons:

1- He was never organically introduced to the common people. BOOM he's plopped into the pantheon at the end of the ToT. Why on Faerun would he suddenly become worshiped as a major deity? If he'd had several years of making an impression on the common people, and if they had come to fear him and respect his power as a mortal, then it MIGHT have made sense. Instead, he's an instant greater deity. I hated that.

2- In the beginning, he maintained his greater deity status while fumbling around with portfolios. First he's Strife, then Death, then Assassins, oh wait, now he's Murder. Hang on, now it's Madness. And all the while, he's portrayed as stupid and incompetent. WHY is he still a greater deity, when there are tons of other deities that have millenia of experience and could take him down?

3- He's an incredibly poor replacement for the Three (Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul). Honestly, I don't know why they needed to be replaced. Each of them individually is a million times better than Cyric.

4- AO "gave" him everything. Cyric never earned his godhood. Mask put power into his hands, and it was a fumble-fest from the beginning. Cyric had no real power of his own, and he just happened to be in the magically right moment where he could trip up another deity. Mortals should not become gods based on accidents, and they should not have massive power thrust upon them instantly. Don't we all hate the munchkin PC who is given an artifact by a Monty Haul DM? Cyric is that, and has never impressed me with anything to suggest he is better than that.

5- The concept for the ToT was interesting, but its execution was incredibly poor and juvenile. It's some of the worst-written fiction that the Realms has to offer. And yet, it's forced into the timeline as canon. What's worse is that they KNOW it's bad. They had to fix subsequent problems with the "madness" story (which made things even worse and more stupid, IMO) and they've used him as a major thematic point for both the Spellplague (murdering Mystra), the aftermath (he's locked up, supposedly), and he will feature in the next cataclysm as well for 5E. All I want to do is shake the WotC staff really hard and scream, "STOP WITH CYRIC ALREADY, UGH!" But they love Cyric more than candy, it seems.

Instead, my only real option is to quit buying the Realms and move on to something that's actually good.

MrHedgehog Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 06:25:05
Cyric has existed in print my whole life, I believe. He just seems part of the realms.
The Sage Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 06:06:58
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

Am I the only one that enjoys Cyric? He's always been similar in my Realms games as The Joker is to Gotham's residents in DC Comics. He's a lot of fun to play with. I just feel as if most people are too intimidated by him to make great use of.
I can see that. But the Joker also has a degree of deadly comedic subtlety underling a lot of his more perverse capers... and that's something that Cyric often lacks.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 06:00:46
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

I'd have to vote for Leira, as I'm not overly fond of Cyric- too nuts- and I never cared much about most of the others.
I think Cyric was, for a lot of long-time Realms folk, a novelty deity that some of us were keen on because he was new and interesting -- I know, because I was definitely one of this lot of folk. But then that novelty soon wore off, and we then tended to see him as a poor substitute for the established deities he later replaced.



For me, the novelty wore off as soon as we saw more of him.

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