| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Diideral |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 03:13:17
This question is two-fold...My players wanna start a pony express type a thing in northern Faerun (From Calimshan up) and I'm planning on giving them a small keep...(from the deck of many things) where to put such a keep...dead center? next to water? next to one big town(aka Waterdeep)
and the second part well does a deck of many things talk to give it out it's instructions or do you simply know kinda deal
any and every suggestion is welwcome!! |
| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Korginard |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 17:07:02
quote:
Originally posted by Diideral
right on!!! Your first idea actually is what the players are (or almost) coming up with... There having a contact of theirs build them mirrors of communication, they will open a small office in many cities from wich their pony express wil serve smaller locals not yet equipped with mirrors...just like a telegraph of olden days...and yes they are in very deep debt to the said contact...
Oh so many wonderful ideas here!
A group or individual could find a way to evesdrop on the network, causing the owners great trouble as information that supposed to be confidential is sold to the wrong people. (Caravan schedules sold to bandits)
BUYOUT! The Red Wizard of Thay like the idea, and in fact want to buy the entire operation. They of course offer enough to make it worth thier while despite the contest. (they want the mobile portal? The Red ones will give them enough to buy it from whoever wins!) If they sell, the mirror network is encorperated into Thayan Enclaves in cities across the realms. What happens if they sell? What happens to THEM if they don't??? 
The best idea by far is invasion. The Wizard who created the mirrors took a few "Short-cuts" to make it easier and cheaper to mass produce these mirrors. In doing so he unknowingly created a conduit to.. "Elsewhere". Something alien and unknowlable is in the mirrors, watching, learning, connecting with those who use the mirrors. It's all so subtle, by the time the party realizes something is happening, half the people using the mirrors are controled by the alien intelligence. Which offices are overrun? What does the alien intelligence want? How far have they ininuated themselves into the communities the mirrors serve? THIS one has potential!! |
| Diideral |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 00:36:29
right on!!! Your first idea actually is what the players are (or almost) coming up with... There having a contact of theirs build them mirrors of communication, they will open a small office in many cities from wich their pony express wil serve smaller locals not yet equipped with mirrors...just like a telegraph of olden days...and yes they are in very deep debt to the said contact... |
| Korginard |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 15:27:59
I actually found the perfect thing for your deck on Wizards of the Coast site. I don't have the exact link, but I think it was a web enhancement for the Players Handbook 2. It's a little web tool Deck of Many things. You can just push a "Draw" button and it randomly draws one of the cards for you and gives you all the details. There are 2 alternate versions of the Deck of Many things, but I think it will work for you and it's totally free!
That Deck of Many Things deck you can buy is sounding worse and worse...
As for using the Throne card in the first place. Well, it IS a quick way for the party to get a fortress, but do they NEED one. Thier "Pony Express" style buisiness will be mobile, and to make it work they'll probably need to be mobile as well. It might be better for them to establish "offices" in each city the route serves rather than have a central keep.
It might also be interesting to create a kind of mobile base for them. Perhaps a magic item tied to a Magnificent Mansion type spell, or a tent that uses extra dimensional space to be larger inside than it appears outside. Perhaps even something tied to a tiny demi-plane that your party could modify into a base that can be access from anywhere with the proper keystone.
It could even be a little more exotic, like a Spelljammer, something like the Realms-Master, or a Skyship.
In one of my campains a party created a very profitable cargo delivery service using a Spelljamming helm installed on a Gallion. They were very carefull to sail in and out of port normally and tried to make sure noone saw them zooming off into the sky. They rarely left Toril with the Helm, they just used it to travel rapidly between distant ports.
Each port of call was a new adventure, and they were constantly being harrased by rival merchant concerns interested in just how they were doing it.
Even if you don't like the idea for your group, perhaps it's what the competition is doing.
Some other ideas for such money making ventures:
1) Setting up a network of spellcasters who use Sending and similar spells to transmit messages over long distances.
2) Setting up a waste disposal service in a large city using a nest of Otyugs.
3) Discovering something that will cause a fad, example Silk Worms in Chult which produce glowing silk. A process can be used to make the glow permenant, and when sewn into garments it becomes all the rage amoung the nobility.
4) Developing a new spell that will be in high demand. Example a spell that shapes a normal bush into remarkable topiary forms impossible to replicate with simple trimming. Demonstrate it at a nobles party and you'll instantly be in demand. After spending some time using the spell exclusively you can scribe scrolls and sell them for a tidy profit.
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| Diideral |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 03:54:56
quote:
And why would a cleric of the Red Knight wanna work for the church of Waukeen, and spread her word instead of that of his own deity?
Well, since my player worships The Red Knight...he (or she) probably has a plan
Thanks you guys I'll keep yous posted on what happens, actual game is next week
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| Thauramarth |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 23:30:57
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
There also was a thingy in dungeon or dragon magazine where you could glue the deck of many thing cards to regular cards...
This were Dragon Magazine 148 and Dungeon Magazine 19 - the Dragon Magazine version went even a bit further - it contained a full deck of cut-out cards on heavier paper, which did not have to be glued on anything - it could be used as such. It made Dragon 148 an instant collector's item.
Dungeon Magazine 19 also contained a copy of the Deck (on normal paper), to go with the adventure where an arcanadaemon had used a deck to trap all the doors in its lair. I think the author had the daemon use a wish to allow it to draw a card and put it on the door - I do not remember exactly if this actually works under the current rules, but there you go.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 22:31:24
Don't have much to say, other than to echo the idea that there are much more interesting (and less contrived) ways of getting the players a keep. Heck, have them BUILD a keep, if they can get the money. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 08:11:49
I'm not sure the onset is a good one. It sounds more like sim city than D&D, or sim business rather. If you wanna make a business run, in the real world or in a fantasy world, you need to spend more time with the business than in bed so to speak. If the condition was: "we give you amount X and you have to make the most profit out of this amount", you could at least justify adventuring.
And why would a cleric of the Red Knight wanna work for the church of Waukeen, and spread her word instead of that of his own deity? |
| Diideral |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 01:12:15
Do not doubt every card stays there!!! quote:
I recall a bunch of castles being for sale here in Germany for 1,--DM back in the days before the Euro. The amount was very real, with the purchase however came the obligation to restore the place and maintain it, for the castles were, after all, protected etc yada yada.
We have the same with historical buildings and churches in Québec city, you buy it but do what we want with it kindda deal...
All right, the vast majority ( including my conscience) of you says giving a keep is a little lazy. I was thinking of givin it to them (along with the risks from the Deck) simply to get the game to move a little faster, The Waukeenar clergy has given them 4 years to build a worthwhile business that will ( in the short, medium and long term) get the Coin Lady's name pronounced,revered and known all over. (the agressively recruiting part I read somewhere) They are given 3000 gold every year and by the end of the fourth (oups three other groups get the same) all groups present their business (useless to say they must be or look to be legit)and the most viable for the church, it's name and the characters get a portable portal. Already I hear you guys asking why not use the portal themselves(the church)? 4 groups of wildly different adventurers starting up businesses all over Faerun all speaking Waukeen's name and in the worst case spending money still praising Waukeen...I believe it should be a win-win for the Goddess for if the church kept the portal, it wouldn't gain new followers...but this should be another topic... I was giving them a keep the hurry them a little more on the road to business. 3 characters, all gestalt, one pure archer (fighter/rogue lev4), Bounty Hunter (rogue,ranger,fighter, lev4), Cleric of the red Knight(cleric,incubus lev 4) for any more info on where me game is goin... |
| Korginard |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 19:43:14
Ah Mace... the company trying to sell that Deck of Many Things will be very cross with you. Very cross indeed!
Excellent sugestion however, and probably easily attainable as a PDF from the very same Pazio.com (He says as he slinks away from the rabid corperate hounds in the distance) |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 19:33:49
There also was a thingy in dungeon or dragon magazine where you could glue the deck of many thing cards to regular cards... |
| Korginard |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 19:27:24
Oh! an item of interest: I noticed in a pazio email I recieved the other day that someone has created an actual Deck of Many Things, an actual card deck based on the magic item. If you are set on using the deck that may be a nice thing to get your hands on. You can get details at Paizo's website I'm sure.
Then again any card deck will do, I myself like to use the Ravenloft Taroka deck that came with one of the box sets. Just match a card to a deck card, say Ace of Spades is the Throne, and keep the list handy and let your players draw. That's the best way to allow for the random nature of the deck.
I was also thinking.. your players are awfully brave. Don't they know they could draw something like Oblivion? Please tell me you left the nasty stuff in there and aren't protecting them in any way from it... |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 19:22:20
If you wanna give them the keep anyroad, why bother with the deck? Couldn't the mage just hand it to them? It certainly would show much more lunacy, at first. There might actually be a reason for him to get rid of the real-estate. I recall a bunch of castles being for sale here in Germany for 1,--DM back in the days before the Euro. The amount was very real, with the purchase however came the obligation to restore the place and maintain it, for the castles were, after all, protected etc yada yada.
What might seem as a cwazy move by the old wizard, might actually be a smart move for him, since he a) doesn't have the cash to maintain the castle, b) is tired of the gang of shadows, wraiths, and ghouls that came hopping through his study every night, c) wants someone else to be blamed for the big bad ugly he summoned and keeps prisoner in the basement.
Or for you as the DM it is a way (restoring the place) to take a crapload of cash out of the PCs' hands. |
| Korginard |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 19:20:40
I tend to agree that the deck doesn't make much sense and there are far better ways to give the player a keep.
Say they find a ruined keep, and a town that is near extinction due to constant raids both from the ruins and the surrounding wilderness. This creates a grand series of adventures as the party clears then rebuilds the keep, earning the trust and adoration of the local townsfolk as they go.
Now compare this to the party showing up and magically throwing some keep down outside a town that's not asking or wanting thier help.
Unless the resentful and angry townsfolk are what you're going for...
In any case, the deck isn't the issue here, you want sugestions on where to place the keep.
My sugestion is create your own little hamlet somewhere in the north. This allows you to populate it with whatever services and populace you want and avoids the whole "What's supposed to be there" Question. What's supposed to be there? You create it, so whatever you want!
As said before it should be far enough away from places like Waterdeep and Luskan so as not to appear to be encroaching upon them.
Where do they want this express service to run? What cities will it operate in? That may give you a better idea of the region you are looking at. Should the keep be at the starting point? At the end? Best option is probably a central location to serve as a safe rest stop. This also allows for more of a wide net rather than a single trail from here to there.
Decide what cities will be served, look at a map of the north and look to the center of where the cities are laid out. What do you find there? Established towns? Wilderness?
That's the best way to start I think. Perhaps that's even the advice the wizard could give your party!
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| Diideral |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 19:04:02
I shall revise my views on the deck of many things, but first let me tell you my views on it and tell me what you think.
When someone knowingly gets their hands on such an artifact, they must have a desperate need for power indeed if they intend on using it, I mean there's always a 50/50 chance of getting burnt or blessed. Apart from studying it hoping to get the secrets from ages ago, you must be an avid player of russian roulette... on secondhand, the mage now holding the Deck is a little psychotic but enjoys the art more for the effect than the Art itself. He (hopefully) will become my party's Q,(get me stuff I build you stuff) and he'll give them discounts to pull cards so he gets to study it and draw for himself the cards he wants (in a distant future)
must go now I'll write more later |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 21:14:09
quote:
Originally posted by Diideral
For the mage sharing the deck of many things, well one might suspect he's a little wack(ok lots) and Intelligence doesn't mean wisdom. As for how many cards the players will draw, well I hold the key to the deck and wherever they put it someone (or two) is bound to try and take it away.
He's a lot of wacko. And if he's letting people draw from his deck, word is going to get around. And then some other mages are going to come calling, specifically intending to get the deck for themselves. It's very doubtful any of those mages will bother with such niceties as actually asking for it -- they'll come in, spells blasting.
It's your campaign, and you're certainly free to ignore our advice. But keep in mind that anyone allowing others to freely use his artifact is going to be very suspect at the least, and likely will damage the suspension of disbelief necessary for good role-playing. I honestly can not think of a single circumstance -- even including insanity -- that makes your scenario plausible.
Do as you will, but using an artifact in this manner is not a good decision, in the opinions of myself and others. |
| Diideral |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 19:22:12
For the mage sharing the deck of many things, well one might suspect he's a little wack(ok lots) and Intelligence doesn't mean wisdom. As for how many cards the players will draw, well I hold the key to the deck and wherever they put it someone (or two) is bound to try and take it away. |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 13:14:46
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
If your looking to give your characters a shot at a Keep theres an old FR module in Dungeon magazine called "the Inheritence" its set near Waterdeep but it can be dropped anywhere.
Its in one of the early issues (Im sure Wooly will be along momentarily to give you the exact issue number )
I hope so! Cuz that is what one of my Waterdeep players wants
Its in Dungeon 26 its levels 1-3 and it revolves around one of the players claiming a Keep near the Kryptgarden forest the bad news is that a tribe of Hobgoblins (who are allied with some Green Dragons)have taken over the keep
In the slightly less old Dungeons, there's a (2nd Edition) adventure called "Keep for Sale", also for levels 1-3 (Dungeon #79, I think), which is not Realms-specific, but the keep in question is set on a coast near a major trading city. Might also fit. |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 13:12:37
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
If your looking to give your characters a shot at a Keep theres an old FR module in Dungeon magazine called "the Inheritence" its set near Waterdeep but it can be dropped anywhere.
Its in one of the early issues (Im sure Wooly will be along momentarily to give you the exact issue number )
I hope so! Cuz that is what one of my Waterdeep players wants
Its in Dungeon 26 its levels 1-3 and it revolves around one of the players claiming a Keep near the Kryptgarden forest the bad news is that a tribe of Hobgoblins (who are allied with some Green Dragons)have taken over the keep
It was also reprinted in Road to Danger, which is also available from Paizo as a PDF download. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 13:08:26
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Great now where the bleeding hell do I find a Dungeon that old???
how about Paizo?
http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues/1990/26 |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 13:06:08
Great now where the bleeding hell do I find a Dungeon that old??? errr....nevermind...found em on ebay |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 13:03:56
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
If your looking to give your characters a shot at a Keep theres an old FR module in Dungeon magazine called "the Inheritence" its set near Waterdeep but it can be dropped anywhere.
Its in one of the early issues (Im sure Wooly will be along momentarily to give you the exact issue number )
I hope so! Cuz that is what one of my Waterdeep players wants
Its in Dungeon 26 its levels 1-3 and it revolves around one of the players claiming a Keep near the Kryptgarden forest the bad news is that a tribe of Hobgoblins (who are allied with some Green Dragons)have taken over the keep |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 12:51:23
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
If your looking to give your characters a shot at a Keep theres an old FR module in Dungeon magazine called "the Inheritence" its set near Waterdeep but it can be dropped anywhere.
Its in one of the early issues (Im sure Wooly will be along momentarily to give you the exact issue number )
I hope so! Cuz that is what one of my Waterdeep players wants |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 12:49:53
If your looking to give your characters a shot at a Keep theres an old FR module in Dungeon magazine called "the Inheritence" its set near Waterdeep but it can be dropped anywhere.
Its in one of the early issues (Im sure Wooly will be along momentarily to give you the exact issue number ) |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 12:48:20
*looks at Wooly's post* What he says. If I had a machine showing me the lottery numbers from next week, I sure share it with everyone....NOT! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 12:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by Diideral
The mage will offer them a price reduction for every card they draw from a deck of many things.
Why? A deck of many things is a minor artifact, now. Why is the mage going to discount his services and allow the PCs to mess with an artifact?
quote:
Originally posted by Diideral
One of them will draw the Throne
You've predetermined this? You don't plan on random draws? What happens if the players draw more than one card?
If your intent is to simply give the players a keep, have them somehow either find or earn ownership of an existing one. I'd not muck around with an artifact for a relatively simple thing like that.
Remember, artifacts are insanely powerful, and can have far-reaching effects -- enough to wreck or make an entire campaign. Artifacts are powerful toys that people want to keep to themselves -- not share out with customers.
A powerful mage with an artifact, finding himself the lone defender capable of keeping his kingdom from falling, is still going to think twice about playing with it.
Someone who casually lets people know he has an artifact is very quickly going to find himself hard pressed to retain ownership of it. Some mages kill each other for unique spells -- a device that could possible alter reality in their favor is something these mages would sell their mothers and sisters for, and then look for more female relatives to sell. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 12:43:06
quote:
As soon as one of these cards is drawn from the pack, its magic is bestowed upon the person who drew it, for better or worse
This has to imply a person knows what the card does in the case of the Throne it is [quore] The character becomes a true leader in people’s eyes. The castle gained appears in any open area she wishes (but the decision where to place it must be made within 1 hour). [/quote]
As to where to advise a character to place the keep I still advise border lands between powers. Perferable with friendly powers nearby if the characters have made such contacts. |
| Diideral |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 11:39:00
Allow me to specify a little more then...
The player's are to meet with a mage in waterdeep that can make them an item (or items) they crave. The mage will offer them a price reduction for every card they draw from a deck of many things. One of them will draw the Throne (gain a small keep but has 1 hour to place it) The player's don't know the realms all that well and I suspect they will ask for suggestions from the mage and everyone else. I want them to have more insightful suggestions than only mine (I tend to streamline and I'm trying to make this game more theirs than mine like I used to but this discussion is for some other day)I personnaly would put it either in the green fields North of Amn or in the flats near the battle of bones. Base camp for a pony express, bounty hunter (only alive), an archery(fighting and crafting) school... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 04:23:03
Part 1, where to put the keep: wherever best suits your campaign, of course. I'd either put the keep near or at the spot that I wanted the PCs to use as a base of operations (or near their existing base), or I'd make the keep part of the plot in and of itself (trying to clear out the various levels from the nastybads that have moved in, since the keep was constructed, or have some challenger to the character's lordship). Remember, the only random stuff should be random encounters. Everything else should have a reason for being there -- even if its only for flavor.
Part 2, instructions. I don't know of anything that indicates knowledge of how to use the deck is imparted. I'd either use the simple mechanic of a spellslinger making a knowledge or spellcraft check to understand its usage, or a bard making a bardic lore check. Alternatively, you can simply let the characters attempt to use it until they finally figure it out for themselves. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 04:14:33
1) A keep has two different definitions
a) The inner and last fortress of a castle.
b) A isolated fortified position, often to help mamtain a border.
I Infer that you are considered b) being provided. This should not be next to Waterdeep or any opther city state that has power, they would require it under their rule or distroy it. Near itself is a vauge term. Border strong houses or towers, etc. under independent control would be established in border regions.
Planing a pony express to deal with communication. The keep should be placed central to starting business (in an area that of course would not be over run by local powers). If a run is planned to be from Luskan to Waterdeep it is simple to place half way between the two. Being on a water route should not be required if the pony express only uses horses, however being on water provides a nautual moat to some extent and also allows for messages to be sent by river.
If the players are considering a massive route in a circle radius indeed near the center to raise and breed hourses and train riders might make sense. Though the center should be guaged not by miles but by customers. If 50 percent of messages go to Waterdeep center would be closer tp Waterdeep then far flung customers of the North.
All in all it is up to the players to decide where to mount te keep, it is up to the DM to decide on local reaction to a new fortress appearing.
2) The Deck of Many Cards does not talk as best I can tell. I tend to treat it as a knowing of a power card to be used. This of course infers the card does not have an imediate effect. I would play it as the person that drew the card knows, because a message was recieved in mind, how to use the card to make the keep. Not that the crd can or even will let others know its value. |
