| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 17:26:07
The majority of adventures in The Forgotten Realms are composed of people that are more interested in "stop that orc raid" or "fight against those slavers" rather than anything epic but my group has been gradually building itself up for some time.
They've recently played the following adventures in the Realms.
The Avatar Trilogy
Halls of the High King (slaying an avatar of Gargauth instead of Xvim at the end and substituting the Knights of the Shield for Xvim's followers)
Keep on the Borderlands (Cormyr and the Thunder Mountains)
Steelheart (From Dungeon Magazine, preventing an alliance between the Zhents and the Red Wizards of Thay)
The Vault of the Drow series (updated for Third Edition and obviously Lolth wasn't killed in this one)
For Duty or Deity
I was thinking really what to do with the reputations of the player characters. I'm also debating what sort of adventures to take them on after these big and epic ones. |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 21:36:00
Korginard, I sincerely doubt Mykrul would stay subservient to Mystra. She'd wipe him out of existence I suspect. No, more likely Myrkul would immediately join up with Shar and proceed to use her help to subsume Orcus or enslave him in order to raise himself to the status of Lesser God.
Myrkul would probably also use his old alliances to become God of concepts that were abandoned. I could easily see Myrkul stealing the cult of Moander away from Lolth with his new Shadow Weave patron's help and then becoming God of Entropy, Rot, and Corruption in addition to Necromancy and the Undead.
From there, Myrkul would focus on undermining Kelemvor or ressurecting Bhaal in hopes of eventually recovering his position as master of the Fugue Plane.
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| Korginard |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 21:27:59
As Wooley said, Myrkul has no interest in becoming a god again, and even if he did WHY would he want to take Velsharoon's place?
A) It's a far weaker position than his previous portfolio, which would STILL be held by Kelemvor.
B) The position is subserviant to Mystra. She failed to destroy him over Waterdeep, if he takes Velsharoon over she'll probably just decide to finish the job. She certienly won't allow him to serve her. Even if she can't just waste him because of her duties, she won't have to protect him like she has Velsharoon, meaning he'd just be snapped up by Shar, Talos, or even perhaps... BANE?
So, your party may as well hold on to the crown for him and hand it over before he shoos them out of existance
As you said, not the best of ideas.
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| Reefy |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 21:54:05
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
If I'm a slave and someone frees me and slays my captor (or brings him to justice), that someone sure is an important hero to me. Same goes if they prevent me from losing everything to an orc raid.
Just pointing that out. It's true that not all adventures are "epic", but I don't think that means only epic adventures are important.
Agreed. It's probably the masses that make your reputation really. You can have various power groups watching you, or rub shoulders with rulers and other important figures, but your reputation with the majority of the populace shouldn't be neglected. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:55:23
One tends to think Myrkul would be a trifle hesitant to break an Oath sworn against Ao again.
The players are the only mortals who remember his name now after all.
I imagine Myrky could just refuse though.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:41:02
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
They want to exact a price from the fledging Death Deity that he will, in exchange for his resurrection, never again ally with Bane or his works.
And how exactly do your players intend to hold Myrkul to that, after his resurrection?
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| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 21:40:58
I didn't say it was a GOOD plan.
I also am going to seriously ask them if they think that's consistent with their character's alignments. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 21:36:45
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Actually, my players are already scared spitless about Bane's return.
They've decided to do a fairly daring/stupid plan. They're going to recover the Crown of Horns in order to give it unto Velsharoon (they made a deal with his avatar).
I think they realize that it will overwhelm the deity and rebirth Myrkul. They want to exact a price from the fledging Death Deity that he will, in exchange for his resurrection, never again ally with Bane or his works.
...I personally wonder if my players are on hobbit weed....
Since it's already been stated that he's happier not being a deity, I can't see him being happy with the players for doing that. Especially if, in your campaign, they killed him in the first place. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 20:34:30
Actually, my players are already scared spitless about Bane's return.
They've decided to do a fairly daring/stupid plan. They're going to recover the Crown of Horns in order to give it unto Velsharoon (they made a deal with his avatar).
I think they realize that it will overwhelm the deity and rebirth Myrkul. They want to exact a price from the fledging Death Deity that he will, in exchange for his resurrection, never again ally with Bane or his works.
...I personally wonder if my players are on hobbit weed.... |
| Diideral |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 18:19:54
Have them draw from the deck of many things... |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 16:36:49
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well there's 'always a bigger fish' in the Realms.
But I'm also curious how people will start to treat them differently as well.
Talking about fame, I always concidered interesting what you find in the spell discription of the spell 'Legend Lore' in the PHB 3.0. There it sais:
'When completed, the divination brings legends (if any) about the person, place, or things to your mind. These may be legends that are still current, legends that have been forgotten, or even information that has never been generally known. If the person, place, or thing is not of legendary importance, you gain no information. As a rule of thumb, characters who are 11th level and higher are “legendary”, as are the sorts of creatures they contend with, the major magic items they wield, and the places where they perform their key deeds.'
Concidering the tasks your PCs underwent they surely have reached 11th level and should therefore have a fair share of the local people's fame. There names might even be known (even though they might not be recognized on sight) in larger cities in bordering areas as well, as Bards might have told stories of there great deeds and heroic adventures.
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| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 15:41:06
I once got into a bit of a row with some Ravenloft fans whom assumed that the Darklords should have laid some smack down on the PCs for giving lip. My reaction was that would have resulted in them DYING. Frankly, in a confrontation with heroes of the Realms and a Demon Lord, my money is on the heroes.
Let's not forget these PCs have killed Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul. If Graazt did kill them then I'm pretty sure Bane make the Demon Prince's remaining existence short.
(Then again, I HATE Graazt, he's the least interesting of the Big three of the Abyss)
Bane has no doubt his own plans for them....
(Thanks actually Mace. In addition to the ideas about Waukeen and Cormyr's Purple Knights, you unwittingly made me miss the next logical step is Bane's return and the "oh crap" factor of it)
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| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 14:58:14
Have them be defeated by Grazzt and start a new campaign ;) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 14:04:53
Well don't think I've been being a candy-DM to them either Mace. I've a few other adventures they've done that's gotten them banished, framed as heretics, and so on from their local peoples but I'm actually worried that partially has contributed to them mostly only trusting themselves.
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| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 12:49:53
I dunno...and I'm somewhat reluctant to answer honestly.
Let them pay the price for fame! Also let them feel the pressures of responsibility and age, I'd say that people with those adventures behind them will have lived through several years, especially if you count training/study time etc.
Why deal with new adventures? You have enough bad guys they pissed off to last them a couple of lifetimes. Hell, they not only blew up Grazzt's plans when saving Waukeen, but also Grazzt's daughter, Manshoon, Zzass Tam, and prolly some others.
The characters have achieved enough status to become hunted, by villains, tax-collectors, fans, sycophants yada yada.
In all honesty, let them become the hunted. Kill off their families, or turn the families against them as Thralls to Grazzt etc., make their lives miserable. And sit back and let them crawl out of the mess.
It seems, to me, your characters show no real initiative on their own, let them choose the direction. Maybe prepare nothing and let them decide. Maybe even sit down and discuss what they want to do, make a list of that and prepare some stuff, but stop guiding them. Railroading players is boring....booooooring.
*shrug* if they are that important let them prove it. By being responsible leaders and whatnot. Let them play with the hand they dealt themselves. If they die, I guess they are not important enough. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 06:24:37
The player characters I'm slowly trying to wean away from "Wandering around and letting something epic happen to them" and moving them to involve themselves in the local affairs of Cormyr for the time being. The recent death of King Azoun and disasters there make it seem like there's plenty of room to rise in the ranks with one hoping to permanently win over Regent Allusair as his bride (*snort* good luck)
As for Steelheart, Manshoon determined what really happened early on as did Ssass Tam. This resulted in a hefty bounty on their heads but nothing of real concern as both are more inclined to blame their idiot underlings for falling for such trickery (and also the other side for being the 'weak link).
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| Halidan |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 00:00:25
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
But I'm also curious how people will start to treat them differently as well.
Clearly the answer to that question depends on how "public" the sucess of their previous adventures has been. Some of the adventures you mention - I'm especially thinking of the Steelheart adventure from Dungeon Magazine - can best be solved by staying out of the limelight. If your version of the Steelheart adventure went anything like mine, the only one who knew my PC's were even involved was a young metalic dragon.
My PC's went to great lengths to disguse their presence in that particular adventure - even so far as to establishing alibias (after the fact) about where they were when the Zhents and Red Wizards clashed in the Thar.
So, with an adventure like that, there would be almost no change in the public perception of the PC's. The same might also be true about the Vault of the Drow adventure - but this time due to the remoteness of the adventures main chapters.
Let's face it, even most of the harpers, bards and other information gatherers of the Realms have a hard time getting reliable information about events taking place in the Middle Underdark. While the surface folks might eventually learn that serious changes happened to a drow city, it would probably be difficult to learn more unless the PC's have been doing a good job of announcing/reporting their actions. And that would have it's own consequences.
However, most of the other adventures you mention would definatly have people knocking at your PC's doors asking for advice and assistance. Your PC's should have very positive relations with the entire church of Waukeenan (assuming they were sucessful in Duty and Diety).
They should be feasted and celebrated whenever a church of Waukeenan knows they're in the region. Merchants should name their children after the PC's. They should also appraoch the PC's for their advice and input on new caravan routes or investment opportunities.
Depending on what your PC's did during the Keep on the Borderlands adventure, they might have serious friends within the Purple Dragons or the Royal Court in Suzail. These freinds could now approach the PC's asking for assistance in re-building Cormyr. The PC's might be given titles and lands to protect (as WalkerNinja suggested). Perhaps their new holdings could even include the keep as one of their vassle holdings.
So, yes I think that your PC's should have earned a fair level of celebrety status by now. With that staus comes both opportunities and headaches. So, for every magic item or feast they're given by a thankful public, they might also run into a young Red Wizard of Thay trying to avenge his older brother that they killed several years ago.
Fame can be difficult in the Realms.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 22:35:43
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The majority of adventures in The Forgotten Realms are composed of people that are more interested in "stop that orc raid" or "fight against those slavers" rather than anything epic but my group has been gradually building itself up for some time.
If I'm a slave and someone frees me and slays my captor (or brings him to justice), that someone sure is an important hero to me. Same goes if they prevent me from losing everything to an orc raid.
Just pointing that out. It's true that not all adventures are "epic", but I don't think that means only epic adventures are important. |
| Beowulf |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 22:32:46
My last campaign ended, for all intents and purposes, when the party died while nearing the end of their quest for the Green Orb of Dragonkind... under taken in order to secure a way of beating back the new Age of Dragons instigated by Tiamat and her offspring/consort Sammaster.
If the party had survived, most of the individual characters had their own goals and loose ends that had been set on the back burner while life happened.
One character for instance, fancied himself a historican and tombraider and had long dreamt of leading an expedition into the Anauroch and uncovering the ruins of the Survivor States and ancient Netheril... which in my campaign is still dead and shrouded in mystery. He has since come into the contacts and resources necessary to undertake such a task, but had been kept too busy with transpersonal concerns to ever get around to it.
Seems to me that there always comes a point at which most successful adventuerers decide it is time to hang up the backpack and rations, and settle into something. The above mentioned character for instance, while hardly done adventuring, had gotten in really good with the Churches of Deneir and Oghma, and his deeds were laying the foundation for a career as a history teacher in Sembia.
So, it might be a matter of asking them... the players. Do they want to "retire" to a more settled life? Doing what? Are there things they want to do? Sites they want to see? Artifacts they want to discover? Debts they have to pay or collect on? People they want to get even with? (People who want to get even with them?).
Orcs and slavers are "staples" of the Realms so to speak, so if the players are just looking for whatever life serves them up, they should really expect an ample serving of orcs and slavers.
If the players feel that they have "been there, done that" in regards to the options their life has laid out... retirement might be the best route.
Sorry. That didn't really answer the question. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 22:04:55
Given the adventures that your party has gone through, I judge them to be reasonably high level. While other DMs tend to take their high level parties to the planes and throw bigger and badder stuff at them, I tend to take the route provided (most recently) by Power of Faerun. Over the course of the last few years they've been walking on the knife's edge between life and death in foul and forgotten places. Shouldn't they want to settle a little bit? Certainly they've made their fortune by now.
Why not try to be Duke of the Stonelands?
If you've got a high level cleric, hasn't he neglected the needs of his church in lieu of adventure for long enough now? (His generous donations only achieve so much)
Now that your High Level Mage has all these neat powers, wouldn't he like to establish a tower where he can play with his powers?
For me, my high level games end up being very role-play heavy political affairs. Maybe that's not your players' cup of tea, but its just how I see things working out.
If you look at what adventure is its a lot like war: Danger, Death, and the Unknown Threats seeking your life.
If you know any soldiers, virtually none of them want to stay in a state of war forever. Those that do are probably not nice people to stay around.
If we continue with the war analogy, put it in terms of Vietnam. If your characters have been adventuring for seven years, its sorta like they've been in Vietnam for seven years. Yes, they would be very good at what they do now, they've survived longer than anyone else and have un-paralleled skills. But are they now so mind-numb that they want nothing more than to stay there amidst the bloodshed, or is it time to go home and cleanse themselves and try to change the world in a different way.
That's just the way that I see it. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 21:55:11
Well there's 'always a bigger fish' in the Realms.
But I'm also curious how people will start to treat them differently as well.
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| Ergdusch |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 19:13:34
Well, you might want to try City of the Spider Queen, if that fits into your campaign arc. It is at least a high-level adventure (at least in the end). Or you try spelljamming or Planescape or hte like.
I had a similar problem with the campaing I run until recently. However those options were to 'out of space' for my liking, so I talked my players into retirement. However, I had my players/PCs prepared for such a carreer end as an adventurer. By then, the wizard owned a store in Waterdeep and the Dwarven Cleric was head (oremaster) of his own clan. Similarly the rest of the company found its place somewhere. |
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