| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Radigan |
Posted - 09 Nov 2006 : 18:41:31
Hello all,
I am currently undergoing a dilema and am turning to my peers in this time of crisis. A GM that I have been running with for quite a while now has decided to run a 2nd Edition D&D Campaign. The rolling system was 3d6 place where ever you want. I somehow with the grace of god rolled these stats:
18
18
16
15
14
12
I have NO idea how to maximize these stats to develop the best character for a long term campaign. I have never rolled this well and I want to create the best class / race possible for the long run. The only exception I have is that I can not play a Wizard as the Arcane casting roll is already filled. We have one other fighter as well. I have all the classes in the Players handbook and any of the kits in the specific class books. PLEASE HELP!!! I understand that this is very opinionated on play style, but please provide any opinions you may have. Your sagely advice is appreciaited!!
Radigan |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 08:07:59
The archer kit can be found both in the Complete book of Elves and the Complete Books of Gnomes and Halflings (still one of my favorite 2ed. books) under halfling. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 02:13:40
I recall that it was originally in the Complete Book of Elves... not to disagree with you Sage. I haven't looked at my 2E books in a long time. I used to use the Archer kit, but never owned halflings and gnomes.. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 01:18:40
quote:
Originally posted by Radigan
Hey Can anyone tell me which book the Archer Kit is located in? It is not found in the Rangers Handbook. Thanks
It was in the Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings.
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| Radigan |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 22:13:18
Hey Can anyone tell me which book the Archer Kit is located in? It is not found in the Rangers Handbook. Thanks |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 09:07:18
I want to point out to you that the Barbarian is a character that has the slowest level progression IIRC, and is difficult to play in a group 'cause he is somewhat 'reluctend' to except magic........... |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 22:52:36
you remember correctly wooly |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 16:13:38
quote:
Originally posted by Radigan
I have narrowed this down to 3 different choices before Wednesdays game. I am considering the: Half Orc Barbarian , Wild Elf Ranger and the Halfling Rogue. After reading I'll let you know what I choose. Thank you sooo much for all of your help!! It has been educational. Going back up to a discussion, if I have an 18/80 Str to start (Already rolled exceptional strength) and I play an Half Orc which gains a +1 to Str... what happens to my str? Does it go to 19, or the next category up?
As I recall, those kinds of bonuses get added to the base number, not the percentage. So that would be a Strength of 19 -- which totally rocks in 2E. And also keep in mind that in 2E, the max Constitution bonus was +2 hit points per level, unless you were some kind of Warrior. |
| Radigan |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 16:04:52
I have narrowed this down to 3 different choices before Wednesdays game. I am considering the: Half Orc Barbarian , Wild Elf Ranger and the Halfling Rogue. After reading I'll let you know what I choose. Thank you sooo much for all of your help!! It has been educational. Going back up to a discussion, if I have an 18/80 Str to start (Already rolled exceptional strength) and I play an Half Orc which gains a +1 to Str... what happens to my str? Does it go to 19, or the next category up? |
| Bluenose |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 19:08:31
With those stats I might try a half-elf Ranger/Cleric(or Druid). Depending on how you want to play you can be a melee powerhouse or a master archer. You can even put one 18 into constitution and be nearly impossible to shift with clerical healing and protection spells and really high hit points. You can drop the lower scores (14 & 12) into INT and CHA with no problems, and with an 18 Wisdom you've got decent spellcasting from the start and good THAC0/Attacks.
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| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 16:14:15
The wild elf Ranger is in a league of his own. He is the mayor of 2E Crazy Town, and his personal assistant Is a wild-mage with the Black Ghul kit from Al-Quadim. He is a total abuse of the rules, and will always be formidable. The DMG lists some options for allowing demihumans to advance beyond their level limits, so look into those. I don't think that I ever played with a DM that enforced those limits.
If he is allowing the Unearthed Arcana Barbarian from 1E, the choice seems pretty clear to me. 1E Barb is a whole world of @55-Whoopin' that never grows old. Basically, they use their own stat chart, which is twice as strong as everyone else's. If your con would normally give you 2hp, now it gives you 5. If your strength gives you +2/+4, now it gives you +4/+8. Ditto for Dex. Downside is no magic until higher levels.
I would advise you to stay away from wizard, as wizards tend to rely on spells not stats.
Contradicting myself slant-ways, an elven bladesinger is secret-tek. Again, grab the Elves Handbook for the kit, but also grab the Bladesinger NWP. Used in tandem, the kit and prof. will do nasty things.
Someone mentioned Evermeet, which I had forgotten all about. Some of the kits in there let you start off with crazy good gear and magical mounts...
If he's using ALL 1E classes, you might check out the Kensai from OA. This class is well balanced in the low-magic setting of the east, but really wrong in a standard campaign setting. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 15:44:48
quote:
Originally posted by Radigan
Does anyone know where I might find variant races such as the Wild Elf? I thought about playing a Drow, but could not find in the drow handbook an accurate character stat sheet. Not to mention, drow in 2ed = death within the first couple levels , so I dont want to waste good stats on dieing right away. My DM is allowing 1ed classes including assasin and barbarian etc. He will also allow ANY kit in the game. We are utilizing Weapon proficiencies and non weapon proficiencies. The wild elf ranger sounds tempting, I am concerned about the level 16 cap however. Being a 3rd edition player primarily, is 16th level max still capable of hanging in there with higher level human characters?
and do you think you'll be playing with those players for so long you will go from L1 to Lv 16? the level cap is not really a hinderance if your group never makes it to high levels... |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 15:43:10
The Evermeet suplement does have some really fun kits for priests also, such as the Runecaster and one that I can not remember the name of right now, that shape change into their totem creatures. Both of these could fit nicely with a Wild elf. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 15:39:30
quote:
Originally posted by Radigan
Does anyone know where I might find variant races such as the Wild Elf? I thought about playing a Drow, but could not find in the drow handbook an accurate character stat sheet. Not to mention, drow in 2ed = death within the first couple levels , so I dont want to waste good stats on dieing right away. My DM is allowing 1ed classes including assasin and barbarian etc. He will also allow ANY kit in the game. We are utilizing Weapon proficiencies and non weapon proficiencies. The wild elf ranger sounds tempting, I am concerned about the level 16 cap however. Being a 3rd edition player primarily, is 16th level max still capable of hanging in there with higher level human characters?
the Complete Book of Elves and the Demihumans of Faerun...Evermeet has more canon on the elf races than stats (but it does have some stats |
| Radigan |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 15:33:43
Does anyone know where I might find variant races such as the Wild Elf? I thought about playing a Drow, but could not find in the drow handbook an accurate character stat sheet. Not to mention, drow in 2ed = death within the first couple levels , so I dont want to waste good stats on dieing right away. My DM is allowing 1ed classes including assasin and barbarian etc. He will also allow ANY kit in the game. We are utilizing Weapon proficiencies and non weapon proficiencies. The wild elf ranger sounds tempting, I am concerned about the level 16 cap however. Being a 3rd edition player primarily, is 16th level max still capable of hanging in there with higher level human characters? |
| Ateth Istarlin |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 15:09:09
quote:
Originally posted by Radigan
Hmmm, I am torn between a Halfling Thief, Elven Ranger, Human Ranger or a Paladin... From a play style perspective is the Paladin a powerful class in 2nd addition? I mean I read it and being used to playing 3rd I dont think he is all that good, yet I dont know the system at ALL. So I feel like I cant make an educated choice on what is good and what isn't.
If you're going with those choices - I'd say either human ranger or paladin, but if it was my choice? - I'd go with human cleric (you can never have too much healing in an AD&D campain!) |
| Marc |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 13:46:37
For powergaming roll exeptional Strength, if you get bad result say you've changed your mind (that's how I'do seven years ago, heh, not today) then go with thief (Bounty Hunter kit) |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 12:56:50
I don't have that much knowledge about 2nd Ed. cause I jumped from 1st directly into 3rd. So if this is not included in the rules in 2nd Ed. please be kind with me! ;)
With those stats I'd go for he triple-class character:
Elf Cleric/Fighter/Magic-User (would be my first choice!!!) or
Elf Fighter/Magic-User/Thief
Its a long way to the next level (dividing all XP by 3 and all) but I always considered it worth the effort. If you don't like multiclass you really should go for the paladin!
So, whatever you do - enjoy your game and remember that the stats give an adventurer a good start but they alone don't make a hero out of him!
Ergdusch
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| Jorkens |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 07:25:37
With these rolls you could make almost anything you want. Now, I personally would make a ranger with these number. If you have the book of Humanoids and want to maximise there could be some very frightening warrior types you could make with these numbers. |
| scererar |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 06:59:37
You rolled scores that can be turned into just about anything. My fav would be 1/2 elven mage/thief. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 03:58:16
I'm sorry, I just meant that you never went from 18 to 19 in 1st/2nd edition, just that you had to go through all of the "increments" of 18/10, 18/21, what have you. Reading back over that I think I was a bit unclear as to what I was saying. Sorry about that. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 03:38:47
KEJr- I tend to trust your judgement as far as rules go, but I'll have to disagree with you here. There were only ever two ways to increase scores incrementally... 1) Be a 1E cavalier, or 2) Use wishes to increase your stats (it took something like 3 per point above 16). A +1 bonus always took you to the next whole number, although I did run across a DM who considered a +1 bonus to be a 5% increase and so only allowed it to push percentile strength up by that much...
BTW... Grognard 2E DMs may allow the 1E Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana). If your DM does this, grab it! You will know exactly where to put your stats as soon as you read it... The only downside is that the 1E Barbarian has THE toughest EXP requirements in the game (with the possible exception of the 1E Bard and the various solamnic knight classes from Dragon Lance).
As I typed that I started to doubt myself... 1E Cavalier MIGHT have a more stringent EXP requirement, and definitely so if you are not nobly born (thus beginning at level -2).
Wow... I didn't realize that I remembered so much 1E/2E mechancis. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 02:37:24
Actually in 2nd edition, I think that if you had an 18, you would have to settle for incremental increases in you 18/xx ability for strength, and various races have maximum levels for ability scores, so 18/00 would be the best you could shoot for, but I could be misremembering . . .
Oh, and if you did use Skills and Powers, and you maximized your aim and power scores, you could have an insanely accurate character as well, but they (tried) to put the kibosh on some kits in there as well. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 02:32:15
Disclaimer: I am not a power gamer... the builds below are ones that I have used, and are the best possible reasons to play 3E instead of 2E. These are built for optimization, as the starting post requested. I would never use one of these or allow my players to do so.
With stats like these, you would be a very potent thief, but I would probably multi-class as a fighter/thief if only the get a shot at percentile strength.
Probably the two most important things to remember about optomizing in 2E are: 1) The rules all contradict each other at one time or another, so first figure out what rules your DM is using; 2)There is no penalty for playing powerful races in 2E aside from looking freakish. The best way to exploit this is Wild Elf. He has the best stat bonuses around, and is tolerable by the civilized public.
The obvious temptation is to immediately head for paladin or ranger. These two classes have the most stringent requirements in 2E. Paladin is definitely stronger than fighter, but the exp requirements will prove to be prohibitive. Given the same XPs, the fighter is higher level than the Paladin and the gap narrows so as to be negligible.
Many will accurately tell you that the 1E/2E Ranger is the mightiest melee class. They would not be wrong. If I remember my build correctly, one can make a 1st level Wild Elf ranger with an effective Longbow Thac0 of @ 5 with crazy damage bonuses.
For this you will need to ignore Skills & Powers, and utilize the Fighter's Handbook (for Continuing Specialization), Ranger's Handbook (for the Archer kit, within the description it also tacitly allows an elven Ranger to specialize and will give you some broken archery techniques), and the Priest's Handbook (wherein you are allowed to swap NWP for WP to facillitate continuing specialization). You pop one of those shiny 18's into strength, and the other into Dex. Wild Elf gives a +1 on both of those raising you to 19 Str, 19 Dex (you're as strong as a hill giant and agile as an acrobat). Make sure to buy a composite strength bow!
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 01:45:03
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It's been a long time since AD&D 2e for me, but. . .
I'd say Human Ranger.
18 Strength
18 Dexterity
16 Constitution
15 Wisdom
14 Charisma
12 Intelligence
Adept with steel and bow, cutting enemies left and right with twin swords (or, if you want to be more original about it, a sword and an axe, or a sword and a pick, or some other combination). You also play the stealth/scouting role. You're pretty charming with your 14 Charisma and of fairly decent mental prowess (12 Int). You meet the prereqs (at least as I recall).
If it's a Realms campaign, get yourself into the Harpers, or even the Moonstars. Knights in Silver are always awesome as well, if you're in the north.
An elf ranger is also a valid choice (talk about Champion of the Seldarine), as is the half-elf. Couldn't recommend a kit (it's been too long), but suit it to your campaign. I'm a fan of the Stalker, but that might be too urban for your tastes.
Here's the reason for staying human:
Since it's a long term campaign, you play as this champion of the wilderness for a long while. Then, once you're satisfied with your rangering prowess (say about 8th level or whatever), you dual-class as a thief. Then you'll be fighting really, really well (like a mid-level ranger) and you'll already have the stealth, so you're just building the other skills.
Totally a Ren o'the Blade concept, but it's a really good one, I think.
Cheers
I have to say, were I playing in a 2nd edition campaign and got stats like that, I would have to agree with Erik on this one. I always loved playing rangers, and you got a very good spread to make an impressive ranger without having too much "down side" (I never really wanted to play a dumb or grumpy ranger, for instance. Probably because of how I pictured Aragorn . . . even before there was a movie). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 01:42:38
quote:
Originally posted by Archwizard
I was under the impression the 2e Paladin was more powerful than a Fighter. The Paladin gets everything the Fighter has, minus specialization, plus a bunch of other abilities and bonuses.
In 3e, the situation is probably reversed unless you are specifically fighting evil opponents, and even then, it's hard to say.
Actually, depending on the second edition supplements you are using, paladins could specialize, but fighters could specialize in more than one thing, and they could become "grandmasters" and "seriosly, I mean it, they are good with this weapon"-ize themselves. But it all depends on the supplements used . . . |
| Archwizard |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 01:28:36
I was under the impression the 2e Paladin was more powerful than a Fighter. The Paladin gets everything the Fighter has, minus specialization, plus a bunch of other abilities and bonuses.
In 3e, the situation is probably reversed unless you are specifically fighting evil opponents, and even then, it's hard to say. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 00:31:22
quote:
Originally posted by Radigan
Hmmm, I am torn between a Halfling Thief, Elven Ranger, Human Ranger or a Paladin... From a play style perspective is the Paladin a powerful class in 2nd addition? I mean I read it and being used to playing 3rd I dont think he is all that good, yet I dont know the system at ALL. So I feel like I cant make an educated choice on what is good and what isn't.
halfling thieves in 2E can be very potent...
and "the most powerful class" is relative to the level of the campaign...in my opinion the paladin is strong but definately not the most powerful...it's basically a slightly weaker fighter with some healing ability (IMO)
it is only because they have a requirement of 17 CHA that they are rare, and your high ability scores actually allow you to be a paladin without fudging the dice |
| Radigan |
Posted - 09 Nov 2006 : 23:55:28
Hmmm, I am torn between a Halfling Thief, Elven Ranger, Human Ranger or a Paladin... From a play style perspective is the Paladin a powerful class in 2nd addition? I mean I read it and being used to playing 3rd I dont think he is all that good, yet I dont know the system at ALL. So I feel like I cant make an educated choice on what is good and what isn't. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 09 Nov 2006 : 23:47:43
AHH Sorry Radigan and Kalin complete missed that part. Sorry! |
| Archwizard |
Posted - 09 Nov 2006 : 23:40:57
The mighty dice have blessed you, they provided you with rolls good enough to be a 2nd edition Paladin. Heed the call! |
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