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 Hellgate Keep - info please

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Conlon Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 14:14:42
Could someone point me in the right direction please?

Where is the Harpers' destruction of Hellgate Keep detailed?

Thanks.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Markustay Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 16:26:04
Ah, okay - I always seem to forget about all those dungeon modules.

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Moorsedge Keeps?
They are referenced in FR11 Dwarves Deep.

They are placed all along the edge of the southern high Moor, starting in the southern Serpent Hills, going down and around the southern tip of the Moor and back on up to where the Misty Forest meets the Moor. (so slightly more of them running up the left side then the right).

Hopefully more info about them will be released at some point (or that region... fingers crossed..)
Wooly Rupert Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 15:45:26
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Wasn't that part of a Harper's novel? I had always assumed so (since it seems a very involved, convoluted story, unlike those bits of history we get that don't get covered by novels).



I believe it was from the Hellgate Keep module, where we were introduced to the fey'ri.
Barastir Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 15:08:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Wasn't that part of a Harper's novel? I had always assumed so (since it seems a very involved, convoluted story, unlike those bits of history we get that don't get covered by novels)(...)

That's my impression too, and I'd be very interested in knowing where it was published. Or maybe it was an official game, played by designers or in a special tournament...
The Masked Mage Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 14:18:43
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Wasn't that part of a Harper's novel? I had always assumed so (since it seems a very involved, convoluted story, unlike those bits of history we get that don't get covered by novels).

Hellgate Keep is similar in many ways to Dragonspear Castle. Interesting Tidbit: I discovered (while doing a map for someone) that Dragonspear just happens to fallout perfectly in-line with (and equidistant to) the Moorsedge Keeps. Seems it is yet another piece of FR lore with 'many layers'.



Moorsedge Keeps?
Markustay Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 13:49:33
Wasn't that part of a Harper's novel? I had always assumed so (since it seems a very involved, convoluted story, unlike those bits of history we get that don't get covered by novels).

Hellgate Keep is similar in many ways to Dragonspear Castle. Interesting Tidbit: I discovered (while doing a map for someone) that Dragonspear just happens to fallout perfectly in-line with (and equidistant to) the Moorsedge Keeps. Seems it is yet another piece of FR lore with 'many layers'.
The Masked Mage Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 04:26:11
The North tells the whole story up until Hellgate Keep's destruction on page 11 of the Wilderness book. Hag Queen Tanta Hagara Invades the North with her army from Hellgate Keep. Then:

"Two Harper agents, a bard named Cryshana Fireglen and a priest of Mystra known as Spellviper, infiltrated Hellgate Keep disguised as members of the Blue Bear tribe. Each carried with them part of an extra-planar artifact called the Gatekeeper's Crystal."

...

"Holding the pieces of the crystal, the two Harpers waited for the Mistmaster to activate the magic with his third piece, initiating the magic that would tear Hellgate Keep asunder. When a blazing beam of purple energy illuminated the skies over the keep, no one within the fiendís stronghold had time to wonder what was happening.
The power of the Gatekeeper's Crystal forced the wards to cascade upon the city, causing an implosion that shook the ground for more than 100 miles. As quickly as the wards surrounding
Hellgate Keep collapsed, the crystal released the magical energy in an explosion that leveled every building in the city, leaving nothing but fist-sized chunks of rocks where Hellgate Keep once stood. Not a living creature stirred in the remains; all was silent and lifeless."
Barastir Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 11:43:27
It's a monster work, but yes, that's the fun of it. and a "maps of adventure" accessory would be very nice, I think there is a 2e product in this line, but not in the FR...
Markustay Posted - 05 Oct 2012 : 18:27:03
I hadn't considered that. I can do maps like that - I used to hand-draw them, but I do have brushes that can emulate a hand-drawn style. We'll see - I'd probably reserve those for articles I write (or others write, for netbooks I am participating in).

I had to edit the above post: I wrote 'western heartlands' for my second map, when that is actually the first map I am working on ATM. Western Heartlands, THEN Eastern heartlands, just like the two big map sections that came with the boxed set. That should cover about 90%+ of the FR games going on. Then I can take my time producing the rest (only some of which may be complete by the time 5e comes around... and then I get to start allover).

Too bad I lost my master map - I had a ton of locales on there that didn't appear on any map, not even the FRIA ones. Hopefully I can cherry-pick from the various WIPs I posted all over the place, and if not, I get to do all that research all over again... which is fun when its The Forgotten Realms.
Barastir Posted - 05 Oct 2012 : 11:40:25
I thank YOU for the maps, they are really good, and this way you present them in 3 forms is very good, indeed. But I have one question: have you also made "local" maps, maybe in another graphic style (as if drawn in sepia and parchment) and in a smaller scale (and perhaps with some misinformation) for use in adventures? They would be the maps the characters get their hands into, imperfect because the ones that designed the map aren't able to draw a complete or perfect map...
Markustay Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 18:54:10
Ah, okay... I thought maybe you were talking about the 'new & improved' version a certain someone has, that I would love to see the light of day at some point (as part of the much larger project it was created for).

Anyhow, thanks for your vote of confidence. I decided to split the map into nine sections - something I hadn't considered back when I did this the last time. I learned a big lesson about waiting too long to present something. I am almost done with the terrain itself, and should be working on settlement placement by the end of today. This first piece will be somewhat larger then the WIP I linked above (gotta include Tuern!)

The Eastern Heartlands will be next, then Lands of Intrigue, and then the Old Empires. Then I will head south and do the Chultan peninsula and then the Shining South. Lastly, I will work on the east - the Hordleands, Old Imaskar & the Shining Lands, and finally one final piece showing the Utter East (and perhaps a tiny bit of Zakharan cost... we'll see). This is the order I feel will be the most useful to the community at large, and will provide the maps in a timely fashion.

I also plan three versions of each section - stripped bare, settlements and terrain features only, and then a 'DMs map' with all the adventure locales ("places of interest") on it. The final one I may do as a layered pdf... not sure yet. We'll see how busy the map looks at that point.
Barastir Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 18:31:51
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

You've seen the Waterdeep environs map?

You ARE talking about the bad one that was part of the web enhancement, right?
(...)

Well, I was actually speaking of the old map in Dragon Magazine, that was somehow updated in the web enhancement (the info, if not the map, was also in the 2e boxed set The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier). And congrats for the maps, your work is awesome!
Markustay Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 17:31:44
You've seen the Waterdeep environs map?

You ARE talking about the bad one that was part of the web enhancement, right?

Anyhow, I have found the FRIA isn't all that accurate (I have gotten that "right from the horse's mouth"), and I use a set of layered maps top create mine. At the bottm is the 2e campaign map (which has the same layout as the 1e one, but more detailed). Then I paste onto that regional maps (which don't always fit together precisely). Then i try to find even smaller, highly-detailed maps to paste on top of those - the ones from the Volo's Guides are perfect for that.

Thats how I get the map layouts I get.

As for the High forest, that is one of the few things that actually, physically (canonically) moved between 2e and 3e, so its one of the very few map elements that is supposed to be different from edition to edition. Rather then create and entirely different map for 1e/2e just because of Hellgate Keep, I went with the 3e geography; anyone wanting the earlier version can simply reference an earlier map. That entire corner should be unforested in 1e/2e (which doesn't affect the Keep's distance to the mountains to the north - clearly visible I that 'aerial view' - or its placement on top of a (now-defunct) large hill/small mountain. The hill itself is part of the chain, and used to be outside the forest (and actually represents dozens of small hills in that area - the Hellgate is on being the largest and most prominent). The pass between that hill and the others is created by the river and should still be fairly rough terrain... especially considering the nearby keep. Even the deadly Turnstone pass to the north is preferrable to that particular route.

In fact, a good deal of the High Forest is on top of hills - very little of it is flat. most of it is rolling hills, and the hills we usually see on the maps are just the more traditional type that standout from the forest itself. Most of The North is hills - very little in the way of flatland up there. The more settled regions are usually located around areas of farmable, rolling hills (which 1e/2e/3e sadly doesn't have a terrain type for, which leads to some confusion). Not to saying there isn't large stretches of 'flatlands' - the largest of which is around the Dessarin River Basin (which is still broken up by clusters of large hills and vast swaths of rolling hills).

My latest version is very close to the way the North should appear - you'll note how hilly it is. At few more tweaks to the Moonshaes, the coast, and two forests and I'll be ready to start adding in all the locales.
Barastir Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 12:03:21
Markustay, have you checked FRIA? Interestingly enough, it brings the Hellgate Keep SEPARATED from the Hellgate Dell, although second the description in the HK accessory they are one and the same. Note that the keep is lost between two maps, so I watched it in higher scale, with zoom.
Well, anyway this map is quite different from the map in "The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier", that is similar to the 1e "Savage Frontier" accessory, in which the Dell (clearly stated as "formlerly the Keep") is closer to some hills and far from the High Forest.

Well, I haven't answered in this way before because I thought you wanted something closer than the general map, and yet more open than the maps of the Keep itself, maybe something like the "Waterdeep's Environs" maps. Hope I helped.
The Sage Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 02:19:37
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I seem to recall a few glimpses of the surrounding environs in the Hellgate Keep module. But it's been a long while since I've looked through that tome, so my memory might be a little off.

This is the best product for maps of the keep, showing the aerial view before and after its destruction and many sections of the crater left by the Gatekeeper's Crystal. But I'm afraid it doesn't show more than the immediate surroundings.

Ah, okay. So I was kind of misremembering.

Thanks Barastir.
Markustay Posted - 02 Oct 2012 : 20:38:53
Map WIP

Okay, I used the river-layout from Silver Marches (with some very minor tweaking), the textures from 3e, and the geographic layout of 1e/2e.

I am trying to keep the geography as close to 1e/2e as possible, but I have to make some compromises - the forest is the 'stretched' version from 3e. Very rarely is the geography actually (canonically) changed by editions (aside from what I consider 'cartographical errors'), and that's the only truly major one.

Also, one must keep in mind that all hills are exaggerated, just as the mountains and forests are 'stylized', so that that hill I show there on the edge of the forest is only that large so that I could illustrate it. The true size of that large hill/small mountain would not appear on a continental map. Large hills on the map are actually hundreds of smaller 'foothills', and mountain chains are riddled with 'passes' - they are not giant solid lumps (one of my biggest quibbles with the 3e textures).
Barastir Posted - 02 Oct 2012 : 11:42:44
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I seem to recall a few glimpses of the surrounding environs in the Hellgate Keep module. But it's been a long while since I've looked through that tome, so my memory might be a little off.

This is the best product for maps of the keep, showing the aerial view before and after its destruction and many sections of the crater left by the Gatekeeper's Crystal. But I'm afraid it doesn't show more than the immediate surroundings.
vorpalanvil Posted - 02 Oct 2012 : 05:42:33
I compare the North box set map with my 3rd ed Silver marches map. The only major difference is the march of the high forest around the keep that took place after it's destruction.
The Sage Posted - 02 Oct 2012 : 02:10:50
I seem to recall a few glimpses of the surrounding environs in the Hellgate Keep module. But it's been a long while since I've looked through that tome, so my memory might be a little off.
Markustay Posted - 01 Oct 2012 : 21:27:49
*** Casts "Raise Scroll" ***

Anyone know of a detailed map of the region around Hellgate Keep? I was hoping to find one of those mini-maps in the Volo's Guide to The North, but no such luck.

The ones in the module are all of the keep itself, except for one very pretty (but fairly useless) aerial view.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 17:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

And I've popped in from time to time to mention that, while it happened before Cloak & Dagger revealed the existence of Khelben's Tel'teukiira splinter group of Harpers, the destruction of Hellgate Keep was most definitely the first major action taken by Khelben's splinter group.



quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Steven, you dastard! That drops a big piece of that particular puzzle into place. Yay!


I always assumed that Khelban initiated the fall of Hellgate Keep...as isn't the Mistmaster eithor a Moonstar or one of Khelban's big supporters?



Its destruction, yes, but not the initial fall to forces of evil. And the Mistmaster is one of the higher-ups in the Tel'Teukiira.
Chosen of Moradin Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 17:10:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

You are correct, it was the Gatekeeper's Crystal.

As for Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical... Do you need the link again?



No, no, I find my tome: little Mystra was sleeping upon the book.

P.S.: Mystra is my cat, mind it.
Kalin Agrivar Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 16:18:19
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

And I've popped in from time to time to mention that, while it happened before Cloak & Dagger revealed the existence of Khelben's Tel'teukiira splinter group of Harpers, the destruction of Hellgate Keep was most definitely the first major action taken by Khelben's splinter group.



quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Steven, you dastard! That drops a big piece of that particular puzzle into place. Yay!


I always assumed that Khelban initiated the fall of Hellgate Keep...as isn't the Mistmaster eithor a Moonstar or one of Khelban's big supporters?
Erik Scott de Bie Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 16:16:09
Steven, you dastard! That drops a big piece of that particular puzzle into place. Yay!

Cheers

Steven Schend Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 04:00:02
And I've popped in from time to time to mention that, while it happened before Cloak & Dagger revealed the existence of Khelben's Tel'teukiira splinter group of Harpers, the destruction of Hellgate Keep was most definitely the first major action taken by Khelben's splinter group.

Steven
who likes bein' sneaky like that
The Sage Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 01:21:44
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

I wish I could remember the name of that artifact. As I recall (and I could very well be wrong), it's the same one used by Sarya and her daemonfey minions in The Last Mythal.

Cheers



The Gatekeeper´s Cristal? Or something like this (where in the name of Orcus I put my Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical?)





You are correct, it was the Gatekeeper's Crystal.

As for Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical... Do you need the link again?

'Twas also mentioned (and detailed) in the Hellgate Keep module.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 23:13:26
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

I wish I could remember the name of that artifact. As I recall (and I could very well be wrong), it's the same one used by Sarya and her daemonfey minions in The Last Mythal.

Cheers



The Gatekeeper´s Cristal? Or something like this (where in the name of Orcus I put my Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical?)





You are correct, it was the Gatekeeper's Crystal.

As for Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical... Do you need the link again?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 23:12:14
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Wow, we're getting silly now!



We weren't silly before?

(Man, where was I?)

Cheers



Heh, we were getting silli-er.
Chosen of Moradin Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 19:51:02
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

I wish I could remember the name of that artifact. As I recall (and I could very well be wrong), it's the same one used by Sarya and her daemonfey minions in The Last Mythal.

Cheers



The Gatekeeper´s Cristal? Or something like this (where in the name of Orcus I put my Volo´s Guide to All Things Magical?)

Erik Scott de Bie Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 19:42:41
In regard to the original question, I believe I interacted with one of the powers that be -- either Steven or Eric Boyd -- regarding the fall of Hellgate Keep (Hellgate features into the backstory of one of the characters in Ghostwalker), and we established that not a lot in specific happened.

Basically, the Harpers found an incredibly destructive artifact when paired with spellcasting support, a group rushed in, suicide-mission style, the demons/fiends went "WTF?", and BOOM! No more Hellgate.

I wish I could remember the name of that artifact. As I recall (and I could very well be wrong), it's the same one used by Sarya and her daemonfey minions in The Last Mythal.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Wow, we're getting silly now!



We weren't silly before?

(Man, where was I?)

Cheers
Mkhaiwati Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 19:27:39
quote:
Wooly's campaign has 4 Womanshoons, 12 Hinshoons, 2.45 Dwarfshoons (don't ask--very complicated plot having to do with half-dragons and a djinni that was hard of hearing), and 19 Elfshoons.


Wooly already has Dwarfshoons? I thought I was the first to have them. But did he use half-steel dragons?

Mkhaiwati

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