| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| atlas689 |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:12:07
There have been many topics here on this forum on the most powerful this and that but this is different (as agreed upon with Alaundo). This serves as to see peoples opinion on the top fifty spellcasters alive(undead counts) currently in Faerun. This is posted partly out of interest and partly because I want to learn of new mages I havent ever heard of. Please dont feel required to make a whole list if you dont want to just a name will suffice and the list if you do make one does not need to be in any specific order. I can think of about 30 off the top of my head:
Elminster Aumar
Araevin Teshurr
Malchor Harpell
The Simbul
The Shrinshee
Alustriel Silverhand
Laeral Silverhand
Tsarra "Blackstaff" Chaadren
Telemaunt Tanthul
Meleguant Tanthul
Halaster Blackcloak
Larloch
Shaaan the Serpent Queen
Ioulaum
Syluné of Shadowdale
Sammaster
Talatha Vaerovree of Innarlith
Noumea Drathchuld
Alvaerele Tasundrym
Embrae Aloevan of Ardeep
Slarkrethel
Queen Amlaruil Moonflower
Vangerdahast
Manshoon
Sememmon
Breithel Olithir
Szass Tam
Gromph Baenre
Maligor
Mordenkainen
Please reply, thanx!
-Atlas |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 12 Nov 2012 : 14:22:26
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I suppose High Arcanist Xolund the Maker deserves to be on the list, too, if we factor out the "Alive" category. Or if somehow he actually survived the Fall and chooses to remain hidden. Modifying Ioulaum's invention (mythallar) so that it may have its own sentience is no easy feat, and so far has not been replicated by anyone.
It can likely no longer be replicated by anyone. It apparently happened right before the fall, and before Mystra's decree prohibiting use of higher magic according to the book, so nobody had a chance, and now, nobody has the tools to replicate it. Doesn't mean nobody could
In any case, it probably throws him into the mix of "craft epic item" lists. But we know not enough about him to throw him in with the top spellcasters. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Nov 2012 : 06:31:40
I suppose High Arcanist Xolund the Maker deserves to be on the list, too, if we factor out the "Alive" category. Or if somehow he actually survived the Fall and chooses to remain hidden. Modifying Ioulaum's invention (mythallar) so that it may have its own sentience is no easy feat, and so far has not been replicated by anyone. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 10:59:17
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I love RAS's novels but I have to agree that his handling of magic wielders is not the best. They frequently use minor spells and nobody seems to have any magical protections to speak no matter how high their level.
Except for stoneskin :p |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 07:12:27
I love RAS's novels but I have to agree that his handling of magic wielders is not the best. They frequently use minor spells and nobody seems to have any magical protections to speak no matter how high their level. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 04:49:34
Yes, I heard that. And in a not so distant past, I myself browsed through a couple of pages of Neverwinter, and found out how "strange" he acted (personally punishing a lowly lackey) which BEAST and I had a rather long debate on.
Anyway, what I meant was using him or either of the other two to personally fight any of their enemies. [RAS's handling of Alustriel doesn't really bode well...] |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 04:38:23
He did use Szass Tam but his portrayal of Tammy was more like the bid bad who you dont want to mess with, which compared with RLB portrayal of him being at least human in mannerism if not in form, well i do prefer RLB lately. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 20:58:02
Hah! Must I fear the day when he's entrusted to use either Larloch, Szass Tam, or Telamont in spell-battle? |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 14:04:36
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I revisited some of the scenes in The Pirate King where there's a lot of magic display, and it appears like you have the right of it... It's almost always fireball, lightning bolt, and magic missiles. Maybe RAS's grasp of FR magic is limited to this?
His strength is in writing blade scenes. I think he dislikes magic and wizards in general because, well, they are awfully overpowered if you use the spells they can actually use.
Now I love Bob's books. I do. but sometimes I hate his hate of wizards and ignoring of their abilities. i was excited because I knew the abilities of Alustriel, and huge disappointed in how she was used.
I was excited when the book siege of Darkness was reaching the war. Alustriel herself, a chosen of Mystra, was going to take part in the battle against the Drow wizards. In the north, she is a mage without peer. Someone, I try to impress upon casual readers, who could fight Gromph Baerne and probably beat him(A lot of Salvatore only Realm fans are convinced Gromph is the most powerful mage in the realms and could take Elminster).
Hundreds of Drow wizards, and their part in the battle amounted to launching fireballs and lightning bolts from a stand of trees at the barbarian army. Alustriel's answer was to ride her flaming chariot through the trees, lighting them on fire, suffocating the Drow who tried to use water spells to quench the flames.
That was pretty much it. Then she crashed her chariot and sat around waiting to perish9Even though she technically cannot die like that) because someone shot a fireball at her, and while she was immune to her chariot's flames, she was not immune to his fireball. Ridiculous.
A chosen of mystra, with chosen enhanced constitution +10, bracers of armor +10, ring of protection +5, Ring of Ironguard, natural complete chosen immunity to lightning, polymorph, temporal stasis, being turned to stone, poison, Disintegrate, web, chill touch......just happens to not ward herself(And no drow, not even Gromph could dispel her wards) against fire?
Not to mention one of her chosen abilities is teleport without error, that she can use as a free action like she did when Aglarel cut her almost in half with a darksword in "the sorcerer".
Well i kinda think that Bob has no balance in his works. I mean when for example Cadderly cast "chariot of cloudstuff" in Ghost King. It decimated couple of hundreds of those creatures from Shadowfell. I think Bob should mainly stick to swordfighting and leave magic to other writers.
Nah. I have absolutely no problem with him writing about casters.
But the fact of the matter is, some of the NPC's he uses should be portrayed as being much tougher than they are. Were he to write his own villains(Which he is doing more often lately) who were magically stuck to only Magic missile, Fireball and lit bolt, I would have no problem with it.
Then again, I am just bitter about an archmage as powerful as Alustriel being underused and my opinion does not mean much. I was just as mad about the night Masks, one of the most feared Assassin guilds in the realm, who I would portray as more having a bunch of junior Artemis Entreri's, looking like pushovers(except for ghost,who was very cool)
Again, my opinion does not mean much here. If he had named some new assassin guild I would not be disgruntled. I still loved the book. I just wanted to see the feared night masks being, well, fearsome. |
| Madpig |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 18:25:14
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I revisited some of the scenes in The Pirate King where there's a lot of magic display, and it appears like you have the right of it... It's almost always fireball, lightning bolt, and magic missiles. Maybe RAS's grasp of FR magic is limited to this?
His strength is in writing blade scenes. I think he dislikes magic and wizards in general because, well, they are awfully overpowered if you use the spells they can actually use.
Now I love Bob's books. I do. but sometimes I hate his hate of wizards and ignoring of their abilities. i was excited because I knew the abilities of Alustriel, and huge disappointed in how she was used.
I was excited when the book siege of Darkness was reaching the war. Alustriel herself, a chosen of Mystra, was going to take part in the battle against the Drow wizards. In the north, she is a mage without peer. Someone, I try to impress upon casual readers, who could fight Gromph Baerne and probably beat him(A lot of Salvatore only Realm fans are convinced Gromph is the most powerful mage in the realms and could take Elminster).
Hundreds of Drow wizards, and their part in the battle amounted to launching fireballs and lightning bolts from a stand of trees at the barbarian army. Alustriel's answer was to ride her flaming chariot through the trees, lighting them on fire, suffocating the Drow who tried to use water spells to quench the flames.
That was pretty much it. Then she crashed her chariot and sat around waiting to perish9Even though she technically cannot die like that) because someone shot a fireball at her, and while she was immune to her chariot's flames, she was not immune to his fireball. Ridiculous.
A chosen of mystra, with chosen enhanced constitution +10, bracers of armor +10, ring of protection +5, Ring of Ironguard, natural complete chosen immunity to lightning, polymorph, temporal stasis, being turned to stone, poison, Disintegrate, web, chill touch......just happens to not ward herself(And no drow, not even Gromph could dispel her wards) against fire?
Not to mention one of her chosen abilities is teleport without error, that she can use as a free action like she did when Aglarel cut her almost in half with a darksword in "the sorcerer".
Well i kinda think that Bob has no balance in his works. I mean when for example Cadderly cast "chariot of cloudstuff" in Ghost King. It decimated couple of hundreds of those creatures from Shadowfell. I think Bob should mainly stick to swordfighting and leave magic to other writers. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 15:36:48
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I revisited some of the scenes in The Pirate King where there's a lot of magic display, and it appears like you have the right of it... It's almost always fireball, lightning bolt, and magic missiles. Maybe RAS's grasp of FR magic is limited to this?
His strength is in writing blade scenes. I think he dislikes magic and wizards in general because, well, they are awfully overpowered if you use the spells they can actually use.
Now I love Bob's books. I do. But sometimes I hate his hate of wizards and ignoring of their abilities. I was excited because I knew the abilities of Alustriel, and was huge disappointed in how she was used.
I was excited when the book siege of Darkness was reaching the war. Alustriel herself, a chosen of Mystra, was going to take part in the battle against the Drow wizards. In the north, she is a mage without peer. Someone, I try to impress upon casual readers, who could fight Gromph Baerne and probably beat him(A lot of Salvatore only Realm fans are convinced Gromph is the most powerful mage in the realms and could take Elminster).
Hundreds of Drow wizards, and their part in the battle amounted to launching fireballs and lightning bolts from a stand of trees at the barbarian army. Alustriel's answer was to ride her flaming chariot through the trees, lighting them on fire, suffocating the Drow who tried to use water spells to quench the flames.
That was pretty much it. Then she crashed her chariot and sat around waiting to perish9Even though she technically cannot die like that) because someone shot a fireball at her, and while she was immune to her chariot's flames, she was not immune to his fireball. Ridiculous.
A chosen of mystra, with chosen enhanced constitution +10, bracers of armor +10, ring of protection +5, Ring of Ironguard, natural complete chosen immunity to lightning, polymorph, temporal stasis, being turned to stone, poison, Disintegrate, web, chill touch......just happens to not ward herself(And no drow, not even Gromph could dispel her wards) against fire? No archmage of her power would make that mistake.
Not to mention one of her chosen abilities is teleport without error, that she can use as a free action like she did when Aglarel cut her almost in half with a darksword in "the sorcerer".
again, it was a great read. My complaints are merely from a gamers perspective, as I believe community NPC's should be used properly. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 05:27:33
I revisited some of the scenes in The Pirate King where there's a lot of magic display, and it appears like you have the right of it... It's almost always fireball, lightning bolt, and magic missiles. Maybe RAS's grasp of FR magic is limited to this? |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 05:38:15
I have to agree with Firestorm. RAS focuses too much on fireball, lightning bolt and magic missile a bit too much. RLB depiction of spells though some may be made just for the story, is a bit more appreciative of the full extent of the arcane arts. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 05:15:37
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Agreed I find RAS descriptions of liches to be satisfactory but RLB takes the trophy with his depiction of liches as individuals who just happen to be undead. I do like Rich Baker though his description of liches are something like Sauron. A key point to remember is that they were living breathing mortals before becoming immortal undead. (My take on this though)
I find RAS' depiction of spellcasters in general to be limited. He sticks to traditional lightning bolt, fireball casting evokers of the 10th level even when depicting high level liches, or even Alustriel. He tends to avoid their real spells in his books because, well, their big spells are broken.
For what it's worth, I didn't get that impression upon reading the only RAS novel I deigned to pick up: The Pirate King. Or at least, 3/4 of the book. I thought that battle at Greeth's tower was done well, if not excellently. Of course, I still hoped, considering his opponents, that the outcome was more to Greeth's favor. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 04:54:24
Well, think about this, if you are a wizard or lich, you cannot have a roster of spells only for
battle. It's not logical. Because you literally can literally walk though a formerly vacant moving portal,
turn into a purple mushroom, walk into a orcish war party, or find adventurers stalking you in Faerun.
Granted, the % is too big on some of those, but you have to have a spell roster that will help you out
in whatever situaton you might find yourself in. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 15:57:13
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Agreed I find RAS descriptions of liches to be satisfactory but RLB takes the trophy with his depiction of liches as individuals who just happen to be undead. I do like Rich Baker though his description of liches are something like Sauron. A key point to remember is that they were living breathing mortals before becoming immortal undead. (My take on this though)
I find RAS' depiction of spellcasters in general to be limited. He sticks to traditional lightning bolt, fireball casting evokers of the 10th level even when depicting high level liches, or even Alustriel. He tends to avoid their real spells in his books because, well, their big spells are broken.
His sword fighting depiction is second to few though. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 09:36:08
Agreed I find RAS descriptions of liches to be satisfactory but RLB takes the trophy with his depiction of liches as individuals who just happen to be undead. I do like Rich Baker though his description of liches are something like Sauron. A key point to remember is that they were living breathing mortals before becoming immortal undead. (My take on this though) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 07:24:13
My sentiments exactly. If ever they decide to let the hidden Lords of Darkness come out in the open, specially liches like Larloch, I hope they'd have Richard do it. In fleshing out Sammaster and Szass Tam, Richard has proven himself quite excellent in delving into the psyche of liches. And of course, more females, too, villains and heroines alike. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 07:16:42
I hope WOTC uses the existing archmages that the Realms already has rather than spinning new ones. The Realms is rich in arcane magic and its users and it seems such a shame to leave many of them NDA or just plain lurching in the dark. NDA's are good and all but too many of them just makes a bit of a mess( at least to me it does) |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 04:15:53
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I think Manshoon puppet masters some, but only to the extent to push a clone in a general
direction, not as a micromanager.
Well, it was just that old NDA question/Theory on whether the real Manshoon was a puppetmaster nobody knows about on a level with the Elminsters and Larloch's of the realms. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 14:59:23
I think Manshoon puppet masters some, but only to the extent to push a clone in a general
direction, not as a micromanager. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 14:38:54
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That's why should Karsus use clones, I'd prefer that he'd use more advanced ways to make sure his clones are nearly as powerful as his "original" self. I don't want to see more cockroaches in the Realms. One (Manshoon) is already enough. More than enough.
Speaking of clones, had Manshoon got that idea from the multiple phyllacteries of Aumvor (who predates the former)? Clones and phyllacteries are hardly the same, yet they share one purpose: to have multiple copies of one's self.
Well, the purpose is more or less continued existence without fear of death. Should they get captured it could become a curse lol.
Assuming of course that the original Manshoon isn't puppet mastering all these lesser clones from a crypt. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 04:27:26
That's why should Karsus use clones, I'd prefer that he'd use more advanced ways to make sure his clones are nearly as powerful as his "original" self. I don't want to see more cockroaches in the Realms. One (Manshoon) is already enough. More than enough.
Speaking of clones, had Manshoon got that idea from the multiple phyllacteries of Aumvor (who predates the former)? Clones and phyllacteries are hardly the same, yet they share one purpose: to have multiple copies of one's self. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 03:43:03
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm talking about "when the clone becomes active," it should not be pathetically weak.
Well to be fair.....by the time you get fried and then your essence goes into your clone, your spell roster will be pretty small....hence Manshoon's walk of shame through Zhentil Keep |
| Dennis |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 03:11:15
I'm talking about "when the clone becomes active," it should not be pathetically weak. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 02:17:42
Well, non-living clones have no protection other that
what the caster protects it with. Witness what happen
to the Karsus cloan in Temp of El. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 00:28:42
Clones? That's fine as long as they are all nigh-indestructible, unlike the Roach's feeble clones that got easily obliterated almost every time Elminster or an archlich threw a spell at it. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 23:56:56
I submit that there are more Karsus clones awaiting out there,
and that they are just waiting for the soul to escape the
Dire Wood. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 23:12:32
Maybe. But most likely he'd have a contingency for that. I'd be happy if he'd be reborn as a less mad archwizard. He'd be doubly far dangerous by then. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 08:32:05
Karsus may not even have been born.
And there is a good chance that the specific spell Karsus used to get the stone only worked on the stone. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 00:45:54
Karus would have discovered them, or someone else would. |
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