| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 07:02:27
I'm curious as to know which DM's do and which don't. I recently played in a 3.5 game where we used both, and it made combat a whole lot easier. I am thinking of trying this for my own campaigns but I cringe at the cost of buying a battle map and the miniatures of various sizes I'd need.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 26 Dec 2008 : 07:05:51
-Amen, brother. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 25 Dec 2008 : 00:24:59
Well, I just found out that in the game I'm gonna start playing in next weekend the DM doesn't use a grid or mini's. This is the first one of these games I've played in in many years. I see lots of opportunity for hijinks. Which is why I'm playing a CN Whisper Gnome rog/wiz 
Anybody have any experience with the Shackled City AP? |
| Ghost King |
Posted - 24 Dec 2008 : 07:23:16
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
quote:
Originally posted by Eryops
Yeah, I have a pad of the chart paper with the blue 1" grid on it. I still bust it out on occasion if I want to create a scene beforehand and not waste game time drawing it out. The only problem I've encountered with that is when the rest of the group sees it, they know something big is going down... 
Our DM uses them to map out areas that we've already seen or that he doesn't mind us seeing, a town, for example. He will hang it up on the wall as a reference. If he does any map prep beforehand, it's usually on the battlemat, and he covers up sections with sheets of paper. We always know we're in trouble when we walk in and see that. It means he's been planning.
*Readies shield for charge of the angry mob*
I don't like the grids and miniatures just for the fact I think it slows down game play and stifles creative thought and imagination. When I DM, I may draw out a map of a room or terrain just so I know the lay of the land and can mark where they are at currently just for information of possible ambushes or traps. Then I describe if there is any sort of rough terrain or blind spots they can exploit and let their imaginations decide their tactics. Then after all things that are hidden become visable, I pull out the map and let them see what is what and where.
Also, with the lack of a grid system if you're having a street by street fight in a city, you don't have to make a city really small. The PCs get to choose the alley, street, building, etc where they make their stand and it isn't forced on them to fight where the DM has set up for them. Obviously, combat can start and end where the DM sets, but I like to run with it and let the characters decide how, where and when they fight. Not at my time and choosing every encounter.
Of course, I'm as bad as a dragon hording all my money and not letting it go. So that also plays a huge factor into why I'm just not invested in it.
But that is why I don't use them.
~Ghost King~ |
| ErskineF |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 02:11:16
quote:
Originally posted by Eryops
Yeah, I have a pad of the chart paper with the blue 1" grid on it. I still bust it out on occasion if I want to create a scene beforehand and not waste game time drawing it out. The only problem I've encountered with that is when the rest of the group sees it, they know something big is going down...
Our DM uses them to map out areas that we've already seen or that he doesn't mind us seeing, a town, for example. He will hang it up on the wall as a reference. If he does any map prep beforehand, it's usually on the battlemat, and he covers up sections with sheets of paper. We always know we're in trouble when we walk in and see that. It means he's been planning.
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| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 15:31:07
quote:
Originally posted by Eryops
Yeah, I have a pad of the chart paper with the blue 1" grid on it. I still bust it out on occasion if I want to create a scene beforehand and not waste game time drawing it out. The only problem I've encountered with that is when the rest of the group sees it, they know something big is going down...
I do this as well, I have all the locations for the first 6 issues of Age the Age of Worms mapped out already.
I fold them up small enough to fit into a binder and then bust them out when I'm ready. Some of the sheets have multiple locations on them, but I figure the players won't know that. |
| Eryops |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 08:35:59
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineFBefore I invested in a battle mat, I used to use large sheets of 1" graph paper that you could buy at Office Depot. I think they make them for flip charts. They're about the size of one of the small battle maps, and work pretty good so long as you don't roll them up the wrong way.
Yeah, I have a pad of the chart paper with the blue 1" grid on it. I still bust it out on occasion if I want to create a scene beforehand and not waste game time drawing it out. The only problem I've encountered with that is when the rest of the group sees it, they know something big is going down... |
| ErskineF |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 08:17:25
When I was a kid, my dad bought me an expensive bicycle for Christmas one year. I also got a $1 bag full of army men in my stocking. Guess which one I played with more? :D
Yeah, I use miniatures and a battle mat. I used to carry my minis to the game every week, until the DM finally started investing in some decent ones. It used to make my skin crawl when he would pull out those paper figures. lol.
Before I invested in a battle mat, I used to use large sheets of 1" graph paper that you could buy at Office Depot. I think they make them for flip charts. They're about the size of one of the small battle maps, and work pretty good so long as you don't roll them up the wrong way.
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| IngoDjan |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 02:41:27
No, I donīt! |
| Thrasymachus |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 02:20:28
I use minitures, but not a grid. We took a page from warhammer and use rulers to move. Players guess if they can make it and sometimes come up short. More often there are gimmees. Hats off to any who can run 8 players in combat without physical markers.
If you want to save a few bucks print out images and paste to coins. You can get 100 goblins for a buck. For the ultimate frugal, use a washable glue to get your loot back after the game. |
| Ionik Knight |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 01:34:33
Sigh, just one a bid for two Ral Partha Skeleton Giants...more bodies to bury...uh paint. |
| Ionik Knight |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 01:30:31
I hear you Eryops, I am currently dusting off my skills while trying to get all of my undead painted. Boy, I have way to many skeletons in my closet. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 01:29:56
quote:
Originally posted by Eryops
I love using Reaper miniatures as well. Finding miniatures that fit the story or PCs is always fun. I've been fortunate to be able to buy several bulk 'opened but unpainted' lots off of eBay for a fraction of the value, and now have enough to supply almost any campaign. Now if I only had the time to paint them all... ;)
I feel your pain. Even if I stop buying minis now, I still could be painting for years  |
| Eryops |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 23:59:36
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually like using them for combat, and have the mat, but I am still looking for an inexpensive way to obtain minis since they turned it into the 3D CCG.
This may be the solution for you: http://emeraldcitygamefest.org/articles/how-to-make-paper-figures/
I personally love using miniatures for combat, and feel that getting a Chessex battle map (or one of Paizo's GameMastery mats: http://paizo.com/store/gameAids/gamingMats/steelSqwire) is worth the investment if you're going to have a grid, as it's a pain to create grids, print them up, line them up before taping, etc...
I love using Reaper miniatures as well. Finding miniatures that fit the story or PCs is always fun. I've been fortunate to be able to buy several bulk 'opened but unpainted' lots off of eBay for a fraction of the value, and now have enough to supply almost any campaign. Now if I only had the time to paint them all... ;) |
| Pandora |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 19:09:10
quote:
Originally posted by Ionik Knight
Minis and grids are great for battles if you are a stickler for the rules. If you are a storyteller who plays fast and loose with the rules then they are of little practical use though having a mini to represent important characters is still fun.
Using a grid and miniatures (I hate the term 'minis' because that sounds too much like toys) has a nice advantage in that it lessens the load of a DM. I still remember the days when we simply used miniatures without a grid to mark positions, that ended with me having to ask the DM every round: "Can I hit X with a spell?" and thus forcing him to make a decision all the time. With a grid it becomes much easier for the DM and has not that much to do with being a "stickler for rules". D&D was created to put some rules in playing "cops & robbers" and a grid with miniatures helps a lot communicating these things between the people sitting at the table. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 03:30:49
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
Yes, there is that danger. This is one of my complaints about 4E; it's entirely combat focused. I generally only use the miniatures and terrain for combat or for rooms in which there is a physical puzzle of some sort.
-I don't know much about 4e, but I've heard that as well. But, those who counter those claims- and I agree, to a point- is that all D&D rulesets, 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e, all mainly lay out rules for combat primarily, and things less related to combat secondarily. Having a ruleset, as I understand 4e, that places a heavy emphasis on rolling the dice, and "encounters"- be they combat encounters, skill encounters, social encounters- would seem to make the above more...possible, I think. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 03:18:35
So...feeling a little silly...
If I say that life is just one miniatures interaction after another, I guess that would be silly? |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 03:17:44
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
Could explain why you dislike them so much?
-The focus on the game seems to become fixated on the miniatures, as opposed to the aspects that (I feel) should be highlighted- character interactions. Using miniatures, to me, makes the game feel like combat situations are of major importance (which they may or may not be, this differs from situation to situation), and the game is merely scenes of combat paused by some stuff in the middle (not involving miniatures) followed by another scene of combat, and so on and so forth.
Yes, there is that danger. This is one of my complaints about 4E; it's entirely combat focused. I generally only use the miniatures and terrain for combat or for rooms in which there is a physical puzzle of some sort. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 02:45:46
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
Could explain why you dislike them so much?
-The focus on the game seems to become fixated on the miniatures, as opposed to the aspects that (I feel) should be highlighted- character interactions. Using miniatures, to me, makes the game feel like combat situations are of major importance (which they may or may not be, this differs from situation to situation), and the game is merely scenes of combat paused by some stuff in the middle (not involving miniatures) followed by another scene of combat, and so on and so forth. |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 20 Dec 2008 : 02:20:05
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Afetbinttuzani, that Fat Dragon stuff looks pretty cool. Although I think you risk feeling like you're playing in a NWN game :). For those that have the time but not the money, Dwarven Forge just uses Hirst Arts molds and then assembles and paints them. So if you are a little creative, you can save yourself some jink by making them yourself.
Heres the link: http://www.hirstarts.com/
The hirstarts molds look very cool, but they would imply a lot more work and time than the paper models. The beauty of the paper model system is that they are modular, which allows you to assemble as you go and also to reuse pieces for many different scenarios. They are also, obviously, light weight and transportable. I put my pieces in a plastic multi-drawer caddie and take them to gaming sessions. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 20:59:07
Afetbinttuzani, that Fat Dragon stuff looks pretty cool. Although I think you risk feeling like you're playing in a NWN game :). For those that have the time but not the money, Dwarven Forge just uses Hirst Arts molds and then assembles and paints them. So if you are a little creative, you can save yourself some jink by making them yourself.
Heres the link: http://www.hirstarts.com/ |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 19:39:41
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-I, myself, do not use miniatures. In fact, I abhor miniatures.
Could explain why you dislike them so much? |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 18:31:07
I have the Dwarven Forge basic set. It's beautiful and perfect for those occasions when the PC's are about to do something 'special'.  |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 18:18:01
I'm running a 2E campain and I use both miniatures and 1" grid maps, as well as paper model terrain.
For miniatures I use tin-lead miniatures, because I enjoy painting them.
I used to use a dry erase board with 1 squares drawn permanently on it. This worked well. But recently I started using the one inch scale paper model maps and terrain made by Fat Dragon Games. This has revolutionized game play for me and my players. The players love the added realism and it's very helpful in terms of determining relative position for line of sight, higher ground, concealment and so on. These are not ready-made models like the expensive but gorgeous Dwarven Forge terrain. Fat Dragon Games sells the .pdfs, which you print out on cards tock and assemble yourself. The total cost is a fraction of that of ready made terrain. I enjoy the model assembly part and results are beautiful, but others might not have the time or inclination. For those who don't want to assemble 3D models, they have modular tile/map sets that allow you to lay down dungeons, caverns, forests and so-on as your PC discover them. Another company that makes excellent paper model terrain is Worldworks Games.
Here's a link to see the Fat Dragon Games products:
http://www.tullisart.com/fdg_ez.html
Here's a link to worldworks products:
http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4&zenid=22a42dfb4eef5c740184099c887fbe84
Here's a link to see the Dwarven Forge products:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/store/home.php
Cheers,
Afet |
| Thalos_Milathriel |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 22:03:47
I design my adventure maps in Corel Draw on a 1" scale grid, then print them out full size on 11"x17" paper on a copier at my work. The overlaps line up perfect so I can cover the entire table if necessary. I can even print alternate versions of important pages, such as the town before the orc invasion, and another print out of the aftermath.
I also use a Chessex battle mat for backup in case the game goes into area I did not predict.
The cardboard counters are much cheaper than buying minis. If I was using minis I'd only want to use monsters I had minis for, or else I'd be hunting down minis for every monster in the D&D product line! Players are encouraged to buy minis for their characters though, as I think that personalizes the game for everyone involved. |
| Ionik Knight |
Posted - 17 Dec 2008 : 13:38:57
quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena
Wow, YRM. I thought we were the only ones who went that route.
I do because I'm not as artistically inclined as my fellow DM, who uses scale 12' dioramas when he runs. Check out the ones from our latest game here -
http://www.marksreality.com/KnightsofSilver/KnOS_Home.htm
Duane really goes all out when he runs us through his game, although I have to say that these terrains and such are but the icing on the cake to the overall experience he puts us through.
Wow, just got around to checking these pics. Please find out where your DM obtained his scenery. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 17 Dec 2008 : 04:14:39
Definitely use them in any game I run, and most of the fellows I game with also use them in their games. Although a lot of the time we just admire them for the art they are. Some of that terrain above was pretty amazing, one day when I'm out of the Navy and able to settle down I hope to begin doing some terrain. However, being stationed in TX, does have it's benefits, like being able to go to Reapercon, and just stand in awe of the skill of the masters. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 16 Dec 2008 : 18:48:29
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually like using them for combat, and have the mat, but I am still looking for an inexpensive way to obtain minis since they turned it into the 3D CCG.
I found a lot of mine on eBay stores. Many of them offer the less rare minis at bulk prices even (that's how I got my 40 dark creepers for $5). |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 16 Dec 2008 : 18:47:11
It depends on the group, for me. I've played in groups where using minis to visualize tactics (AoO, caught in the spell, etc.) made the combat go a lot quicker and smoother. I've also been a part of groups where using minis slowed everything down to a crawl.
Of course, there are times when you really want to push the point home to the players about what they are up against. That's when bringing out the Colossal-scaled Red Dragon against their medium-sized minis really puts the fear of the Ao into them... |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 16 Dec 2008 : 16:27:12
I actually like using them for combat, and have the mat, but I am still looking for an inexpensive way to obtain minis since they turned it into the 3D CCG. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 16 Dec 2008 : 01:51:48
I use miniatures only when I need to; like in large complicated combats, in version 3.0 or higher rules (where some rules depend on knowing exactly where everyone is), and when the folks I'm playing with just can't play without them.
From about 1980 (when I DMd for the first time) until 3.0e came out, I rarely used miniatures (again, with only a few reasons outstanding) relying more on story and such. I had a good group to play with too though; so that made a huge difference.
One noted time I HAD to use Miniatures, and had a blast doing it, was the Giant Series of Modules. Just seeing all those giants laying around in the Great Hall of the Steading of the Hill Giant Chief when the party began to kill them was fun enough! |
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