| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Blackwill |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 16:42:32
Real Estate Pricing
Could anyone point me in the direction of where I can find a list of real estate pricing in the realms. Is there any such a thing? Or can any such thing be compiled out of books? Any guidance in this problem would be more than helpfull. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 01:21:43
The thing about in wall and out of walls tend to have two considerations, taxes and earnings.
Taxes will be higher within the walls, perhaps twice as much perhaps much more.
Earnings though also will tend to be higher.
Given the same business in walls and outside walls the business will have more loses being outside the walls. The taxes are lower by also is the protection provided.
A farm gets raided easier outside a wall, no Watch to come right away to help (The Guard might have a patrol within an hours ride). A fire - there are less people there to fight it and so on. This would apply to merchants as well that could be robbed easier or extroted by local bandits not to be robbed.
Ed has discussed strong houses, on the borders between lands. These people tend not to pay taxes, however likely did not buy the land for much (if at all) in that they provide their own security, provide their own laws and as long as they do not updet either of the realms they are between tend to have no problem with govements. Some choose these route because it was a zent safehouse, though not publicly declared so (It would be more like a hunting lodge as far as what is told to the public) or Elistraee did have at least one such strong house to the tween lands, their reason was more of self protection yet still be on the surface.
Such strong houses of course only last as long as the defense is strong enough to repell attacker.
In short how much money is expected to be earned, how much is expected to be paid in costs each year needs to be weighed against how many years one wants the purchase paid back. This formular should apply to the normal character, not special purpose pricing (where a goverment or group does not care when or if they earn the purchase price back).
The long term mortgage is a recent concepts, even 150 years ago the mortgage in many cases was a crop loan, a term of one year. Also though alot of that land was homesteaded in the New World and not purchased for much at all. In the Old Old there were still teanant farmers, however some former swerfs were given actually title to land their families might have worked for generations (this dors not always imply a purchase, but rather a punisment of a Noble that displeased the King or became too weak to impose will and control over the serfs).
A long way to say it depends on the expectations of the people making a purchase, if a human is willing to work 10 years to get his investment back the price of the land is price / expected yearly profit * number of years (10 in this example). If the human decides does not need or want intitial investment back for 50 years they will pay much more for the land that will belong to their family.
The Bible has indicated that a person would work 7 years to own a wife at a far earilier time, though that clearly also could have included a dowery (of land or other wealth that came with the wife).
I have a hard time picturing a normal elf even accepting the idea of owning land, however in dealing with humans clearly might outbid humans because of their longer life span.
All in all in the end I expect Ed will reply to you with the answer "It depends" on many factors. He likely will describe what some of the factors that or considered in how land is priced.
Oh I forgot some lands might require a bribe or ectra user fee if a person not native to the region the land is sought to be purchased. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 19 Jan 2009 : 10:32:18
Hi folks!
I aksed Ed about real estate pricing in Arabel after the Dragonwar. But as we all now, he is fairly busy answering other questions (asinde from his other daily activities). Therefore it will most certainly take some time until he goes down to my querry.
So I thought I might reactivate this older scroll to see what you guys would think about my initial thoughts:
I looked at the pricelist of the Stronghold Builders Guide.
However, you would also have to take into consideration that a lot of people would rather live in a walled city these days, than in the open countryside or small village with so many orcs and goblins roaming about.
On top of that come the taxation of Cormyr. All in all I would assume that the prices for a small house in Arabel would be much higher than the stronghold builders Guide suggests.
Thoughts and comments appreciated.
Ergdusch |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 10:51:05
Ed's "Elminster Speaks" articles also make a few quick references to *general* land prices in the Realms.
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| Blackwill |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 20:54:41
Thank you all for giving me at least some direction in this. I guess for more details I might need to ask Ed. |
| Chyron |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 01:53:33
The 3E Stronghold Builders Guidebook does not give prices for land, but it has a formula for modification of the total stronghold cost modified according to the nearest primary settlement. There are 5 types of these ranging from small town to metropolis. (3E SBG pg. 5-7)
This is further modified by the actual distance to the settlement, the terrain type and other mitigating modifiers (e.g. such as a nearby monster lair, or site that contains an income source (resource), etc).
It seems to follow the premise of might makes right and expects that at a certain level PCs will have 'earned' the right to stake a claim of some sort. It does not really take heavy politics (as found in the realms) into account. So some DMs may feel that these modifiers do not accurately represent 'cost of land'.
Obviously setting up shop near Zhentil Keep or within the domain of Cormyr without permission and without the force of arms to hold the claim would prove a futile task in the long run.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 21:29:02
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
and there also was a 3e book on the topic
Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook might be the one you are thinking of. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 21:17:38
to supplement what Kentinal said there is also the problem that in those areas with a large degree of freeholders, such as Skandinavia, the economy was based upon other principles than monetary. land changed hands as parts of gifts and dowry. the alternative is to clear an area for oneself. Even today one can hear some farmers say that "you never sell land". |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 21:10:31
Looking to history is hard, until there was the middle class, twows getting a charter, almost all the land was held by chuch, nobles and right of conquest. The serfs or peasants tended to only own the right to farm or rent. There are some historical records of freeholders being forced into a feudal society. A long time it appears if one congoured a land and protected it, they owned it. Often owership appears to be a factor of the blade or debt. The transition to purchase of land tends to appear recent (last 500 years or so best I can tell). Before that land appears to have been traded, held in trust or taken. |
| ksu_bond |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 20:41:41
I'd suggesting having a look at real world prices of land during the Medieval Ages, however, that knowledge is at time difficult to find, and if found then to convert. I think the important thing to remember about purchasing land in a feudal setting is that bartering was a common method of payment and the feudal lords loved taxes. Another key to remember is that an empty plot of land or building is less valuable than one with a business or residence operating on or within it. So lets say a local government owns the said piece of land, it is very possible that the government would be more than willing to let the tennet make payments because they also know that they will be getting tax revenue from what was a big null in their tax books. Now suppose another merchant owns the property, depending on what business the property will be used for, would expect X amount in gold while the rest can be paid via goods which you will be selling or perhaps a credit to be used when the merchant actually needs to get said goods.
Now as to the exact price, that is a little more difficult. Obviously a piece of property that is located within a city is more costly than one located out in the country. And as was mentioned if that city property is within the city walls then the price goes up even more. Not to mention, that if the property is vacant or has a building already on it. How big is the building? How tall? Is it set up to have store fronts downstairs and useable living space upstairs? Is their a cellar? How close is it to the Ports? The City Guard? Which part of town is it located in? etc. etc. But as a point of reference I'd suggest taking a look at a few of the Volo's Guides to get an idea of prices. For instance a loaf of bread in Suzail goes for about 3cp and a room in one of the cheaper inns is 5gp with an additional 1sp for each animal to be stabled. Obviously the bakery requires less space and thus his property would cost less than an inn with stables. For the baker to earn 3gp a day he would have to sell 100 loaves of bread, whereas an inn which usually also houses a tavern on the main floor would easily make 25gp and 5sp by having just 5 rooms upstairs and that doesn't include the income from the bar.
I wish I could ballpark it for you, but like real world real estate property values, they are completely arbitrary and market driven. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:11:05
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Due to the fact that a castle is a military base, also there to shelter the population of the surrounding village, I'd assume no one will be able to buy land inside these walls.
Not all castles would be a milatary base. A large castle could rent or sell land to merchants, Nobles, etc.
Also if a castle has a surrounding curtain wall often considered part of a castle complex, there could be more land available fro private use.
A broader statment though would be land within a wall complex, a walled town for example, would tend to be more costly then lands that are not protected by a wall. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:10:45
Steven made this all those years ago for Waterdeep.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ss-buildings.htm |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:08:45
Ye olde Castle Guide, I think it was called...and there also was a 3e book on the topic |
| Blackwill |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:07:27
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
There is no set land prices that I am aware of. There are costs of certain types of buildings.
However even if there were land prices they would vary by region and location. Inside castle walls land will tend to be far more expensive (espcially in hostile regions).
Yes, this is what I'm led to understand. But there must be some indication per region of what land costs. Also if buildings have a certain cost, how can this be calculated, and is there any resource which could help me? |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 17:51:42
Due to the fact that a castle is a military base, also there to shelter the population of the surrounding village, I'd assume no one will be able to buy land inside these walls. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 17:43:08
There is no set land prices that I am aware of. There are costs of certain types of buildings.
However even if there were land prices they would vary by region and location. Inside castle walls land will tend to be far more expensive (espcially in hostile regions). |
