Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Sages of Realmslore
 Iyrauroth, his get and his lairs

Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is FREE!

Screensize:
UserName:
Password:
Format Mode:
Format: BoldItalicizedUnderlineStrikethrough Align LeftCenteredAlign Right Horizontal Rule Insert HyperlinkInsert Email Insert CodeInsert QuoteInsert List
   
Message:

* HTML is OFF
* Forum Code is ON
Smilies
Smile [:)] Big Smile [:D] Cool [8D] Blush [:I]
Tongue [:P] Evil [):] Wink [;)] Clown [:o)]
Black Eye [B)] Eight Ball [8] Frown [:(] Shy [8)]
Shocked [:0] Angry [:(!] Dead [xx(] Sleepy [|)]
Kisses [:X] Approve [^] Disapprove [V] Question [?]
Rolling Eyes [8|] Confused [?!:] Help [?:] King [3|:]
Laughing [:OD] What [W] Oooohh [:H] Down [:E]

  Check here to include your profile signature.
Check here to subscribe to this topic.
    

T O P I C    R E V I E W
Icelander Posted - 15 Apr 2018 : 21:09:21
I've seen much excellent homebrew on Iyrauroth, the Wyrm of the Peaks, in the Candlekeep Compendiums and other places.

Before I decide which of it to use in my campaign, what to build on and and so forth, I'd like to get an idea if I'm missing any sources.

The Forgotten Realms Wiki article on Iyrauroth has a few nice little nuggets of lore.

Is there any canonical source about Iyrauroth, his descendants, his sister or other relatives, his lairs, his treasure, his deeds or other things that might relate to him that is not referenced on the FR Wiki?

I'm not much good at looking through Ed Greenwood's answers, as the Search function usually only turns up scroll for the whole year, which leaves hours of plodding manual searching. I understand some scribes have access to older answers in a more searchable format and might have an idea whether Ed has given us any lore on Iyrauth and his get between the 6th century DR and Iyrauroth being awakened by the Cult of the Dragon late in the 14th.

Is there any information on whether the other dragons who sought to slay the sixteen younger dragons of 'Iyrauroth's Get' in these centuries managed to get them all or whether some survived into the 1370s DR?

What about Mount Grimmerfang / The Hollow Mountain?

Is there any information on who laired there, if anyone, between the 6th century DR and until Iyrauroth returned there from the Thar around 1370 DR?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
cpthero2 Posted - 26 Feb 2020 : 22:37:42
Senior Scribe Wrigley,

Do you think it possible that the Dwarves of Tethyamar would have worked alongside the Dwarves of Sarphil? It just popped into my head, due to proximity.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I'd have to think about how they ended up in the dragon's horde, but perhaps some elven artifacts or relics "liberated" by the drow during the Elven Court Massacre? I could also imagine there are lost demon-summoning artifacts from the Nentyarch's Court ere Narfell's fall.


A drow settlement within the territory of Embrurshaile and later Iyrauroth could provide both, especially if Embrurshaile or Iyrauroth initially allied or coexisted with it, but later the temptation of their magics grew too much for either dragon and the dark elves fell to acid and claw.

I'd make the drow an offshoot of Maerimydra or Nar'Vheen (Living City materials, located below Calaunt), probably religious seperatists worshipping demon lords involved in the history of Narfell and Raumathar.

I'm also very interested in suggestions for dwarven relics from Sarphil, Felimar and Roldilar, as well as orcish relics of fallen Vastar. The odd minotaur relic of Grong-Haap, ogre relic of Thar and giant artifacts* are other possibilities.

Also, the grey orcs who ended up in the Vast in the eleventh and tenth centuries before Dale Reckoning had recently been part of titanic battles between physical incarnations of orcish deities and the pantheons of Mulhorand and Unther. Some quasi-divine warlords and champions might have made off with religious artifacts belonging to incarnations of the human deities, seized in the earlier phases of the war, when the orcs overran the northern provinces of the Old Empires (e.g. modern Thay).


*Artifacts and relics in the archeological and historical sense, not necessarily the (A)D&D term of art one, though I am by no means opposed to having some of these be items of potent magic.



Sarphil was known for it's mining of pure copper from under Cormanthor so they could have some art objects from that era.

Roldilar was known for it's Glittering swords - my take on this is a metal that is poisonous to orcs and looks little like obsidian (glittering in light). I found it more interesting than simple orcbane magic and it make more sense with wide usage.

To the elven artefacts - Ylraphon is former elven city that was plundered by orcs if memory serves.

Wrigley Posted - 25 Sep 2019 : 23:33:44
Iyrauroth was also late for any last will so he had to inspect her domain for any lair and take what he found as his so sure ruins of Sarphil sounds ideal.

As you describe it I think there must be something special about Mount Grimmerfang that make all orcs in region take it this seriously. Something that they cannot just build elsewhere...
This area was a center of Ostoria very long time ago and as we know giant structures are there to stay. I understand it that Mount Grimmerfang is the most significant in whole range so it make sense even for giants to make it a seat of power. So lets say that high on the mountain is a plateu where giants had a court under open sky with a throne for their ruler. This is the center of later Vastar as orcs used this place and the term Overking is partly because of the size of the throne (biger than other kings). It might impart some magical abilities to one sitting on the throne to make it more unique.
Dwarves from Roldilar knew about this place but refused to keep their king and whole court in such nondefended position and made a dwarven city inside the mountan. To orcs it only confirmed importance of the mountain and after they got it back they used the city and called it Hallow Mountain.
Dragons had long battled the giants of Ostoria so they refuse to aknowledge the importance of the place but also do not let anyone claim it.
Icelander Posted - 25 Sep 2019 : 18:55:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

That make sense. I haven't delved into their characters and only thought about timeline - Iyrauroth was too late for any Sarphil connections to make sense.

Well, he could have found fallen dwarfholds of Sarphil, slain the drow or duergar occupying them, seized all accumulated treasures, be they dwarven, drow or otherwise, and made use of the ancient structure as a lair (especially if it had both huge halls and a defensible location).

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

So the oldest known structures around are giant built (Ironfang keep) so if something would be really old that would be my bet. Later as you say there was a Sarphil which could build some structure underground.

Of course, we don't know the age of any artificial delvings or structures in the Hollow Mountain. All we know that by the 6th century Dale Reckoning, the place was apparently regarded by the orcs of Vastar as the legitimate seat of the ruling monarch over them all.

From that, I'd extrapolate that it had been in orcish hands for centuries by that time, as otherwise, some other grand fortress in the lands of Vastar would more probably be the seat of the Overking. After all, this was in the thirteenth century of Vastar history and there is no record of any other capital.

Mount Grimmerfang is not necessarily the only capital Vastar ever had, but by the time Ologh was eaten, it was strongly enough associated with rulership of Vastar that no orc chieftain or warlord who held another fortress or stronghold could proclaim himself Overking, only the one who managed to hold Mount Grimmerfang. To me, that suggests that there were centuries of orcish history behind Mount Grimmerfang and that the Hollow Mountain had been an orcish stronghold before the founding of Cormyr and the raising of the Standing Stone.

For my campaign, I have two possibilities that I want to explore. Either the Hollow Mountain has always been the capital of Vastar, ever since its founding in the eight century before Dale Reckoning, or, it became the capital of a much larger and more powerful Vastar in the fourth century BDR, after the minotaur kingdom of Grong-Haap fell and Vastar expanded into its former lands.

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

I personaly view orcs as surface race so for me they occupied Earthspur mts but did not delved in. Name Hollow Mountain should then be based on Roldilar city or something older.

Given that the average orc is armed and armoured in metal and orcs are not noted as a trading culture, it's logically impossible for them not to mine their homelands extensively to get all that iron they need.
Wrigley Posted - 25 Sep 2019 : 00:24:15
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I'd have to think about how they ended up in the dragon's horde, but perhaps some elven artifacts or relics "liberated" by the drow during the Elven Court Massacre? I could also imagine there are lost demon-summoning artifacts from the Nentyarch's Court ere Narfell's fall.


A drow settlement within the territory of Embrurshaile and later Iyrauroth could provide both, especially if Embrurshaile or Iyrauroth initially allied or coexisted with it, but later the temptation of their magics grew too much for either dragon and the dark elves fell to acid and claw.

I'd make the drow an offshoot of Maerimydra or Nar'Vheen (Living City materials, located below Calaunt), probably religious seperatists worshipping demon lords involved in the history of Narfell and Raumathar.

I'm also very interested in suggestions for dwarven relics from Sarphil, Felimar and Roldilar, as well as orcish relics of fallen Vastar. The odd minotaur relic of Grong-Haap, ogre relic of Thar and giant artifacts* are other possibilities.

Also, the grey orcs who ended up in the Vast in the eleventh and tenth centuries before Dale Reckoning had recently been part of titanic battles between physical incarnations of orcish deities and the pantheons of Mulhorand and Unther. Some quasi-divine warlords and champions might have made off with religious artifacts belonging to incarnations of the human deities, seized in the earlier phases of the war, when the orcs overran the northern provinces of the Old Empires (e.g. modern Thay).


*Artifacts and relics in the archeological and historical sense, not necessarily the (A)D&D term of art one, though I am by no means opposed to having some of these be items of potent magic.



Sarphil was known for it's mining of pure copper from under Cormanthor so they could have some art objects from that era.

Roldilar was known for it's Glittering swords - my take on this is a metal that is poisonous to orcs and looks little like obsidian (glittering in light). I found it more interesting than simple orcbane magic and it make more sense with wide usage.

To the elven artefacts - Ylraphon is former elven city that was plundered by orcs if memory serves.
Wrigley Posted - 25 Sep 2019 : 00:12:37
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Embrurshaile died (was consumed by an errant spell of hers, actually) some 500+ years before Iyrauroth would have entered his slumber, and, in any case is depicted as more of a crazed loner type who talks to herself and devises a solitary magnum opus of metaphysical theory rather than a political figure. More of a Karsus type than a Manshoon one.

At least Iyrauroth is presented as having worked with others on occasion, making it more plausible that any allegiances date to his tenure in the area (between something like -350 DR to the start of Dale Reckoning and the last recorded sighting of him in 572 DR), which was two centuries at minimum, but more probably between seven or nine centuries.

After Embrurshaile's death, Iyrauroth was a major player in her former stomping grounds for a long time, probably about as long as he spent slumbering after the reports of him stop in the 6th century DR.


That make sense. I haven't delved into their characters and only thought about timeline - Iyrauroth was too late for any Sarphil connections to make sense.

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Why 'dwarven' fortress city?

Mount Grimmerfang was the seat of the Overking of Vastar in 572 DR and at that time, Vastar had existed in the area for about thirteen centuries. Surely, it would seem logical that any halls, thrones and fortifications existing under the Hollow Mountain at the time Iyrauroth ate Ologh were built by the orcs of Vastar.

Dwarves are only recorded as having held the Hollow Mountain for a single human generation, about thirty years, and that was after taking it from orcs weakened by civil war.

Granted, it's possible to imagine a truly ancient dwarf mine under the Hollow Mountain dating back to Sarphil in the fifth millennia before Dale Reckoning, but as far as I'm aware, canon doesn't mention anything about the Hollow Mountain until it enters the historical record as the capital of an orcish kingdom.

Remember, the orcs who founded Vastar in the 8th century BDR were grey orc descendants of the Orcgate Wars orcs, who were much more advanced, organized and civilized than modern orcs and were led by deities, demigods and divine incarnations in the wars shortly before emigrating to the Vast.

Gruumsh is a god of territory and conquest, so grey orc warlords with the blood of his incarnations seem very likely to have built grand fortresses in the new lands they conquered, after regrouping from their painful defeat to the Old Empires.

Even if there was a structure of some sort there when the orcs ocfupied it, it would seem more likely to have been built by the minotaurs of Grong-Haap than dwarves.


So the oldest known structures around are giant built (Ironfang keep) so if something would be really old that would be my bet. Later as you say there was a Sarphil which could build some structure underground. I personaly view orcs as surface race so for me they occupied Earthspur mts but did not delved in. Name Hollow Mountain should then be based on Roldilar city or something older.

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
The PCs are allied with an orcish 'king' in the Earthfasts, Urbakh the Undying, who wants to reunite the divided clans into a new kingdom of Vastar. The orcs living near Mount Grimmerfang are not considered among the potential subjects of a reinvigorated Vastar, for some reason, as despite holding the old orcish capital, they've made no claim to the title of Overking for untold orcish generations.

Having the local orc tribe be 'polluted' from the perspective of orthodox grey orc shamans and warchanters, because of breeding with dragons and/or demons, provides a good reason why Mount Grimmerfang is not a center for modern grey orc racial pride and the ambitions of warlords dreaming of past glories.

The PCs won't massacre orcs just for being orcish, but demonic descendants of Iyrauroth bred to be perfect warriors are another matter entirely. Orcs are people, albeit callous and violent people from a vicious culture, who unfortunately compete for the same resources as humans. Demons, dragons and their spawn bred for warfare are much easier to view as simply monstrous, whether or not that view is justified or not.


You have a nice backstory which explain your need for significant difference. For me one dragon settled the city long ago and that is the reason why orcs are not making claims about their kingdom's capital. After it died they hoped for some time but then it's kin came and claimed it again.
Icelander Posted - 24 Sep 2019 : 01:47:56
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

I'd have to think about how they ended up in the dragon's horde, but perhaps some elven artifacts or relics "liberated" by the drow during the Elven Court Massacre? I could also imagine there are lost demon-summoning artifacts from the Nentyarch's Court ere Narfell's fall.


A drow settlement within the territory of Embrurshaile and later Iyrauroth could provide both, especially if Embrurshaile or Iyrauroth initially allied or coexisted with it, but later the temptation of their magics grew too much for either dragon and the dark elves fell to acid and claw.

I'd make the drow an offshoot of Maerimydra or Nar'Vheen (Living City materials, located below Calaunt), probably religious seperatists worshipping demon lords involved in the history of Narfell and Raumathar.

I'm also very interested in suggestions for dwarven relics from Sarphil, Felimar and Roldilar, as well as orcish relics of fallen Vastar. The odd minotaur relic of Grong-Haap, ogre relic of Thar and giant artifacts* are other possibilities.

Also, the grey orcs who ended up in the Vast in the eleventh and tenth centuries before Dale Reckoning had recently been part of titanic battles between physical incarnations of orcish deities and the pantheons of Mulhorand and Unther. Some quasi-divine warlords and champions might have made off with religious artifacts belonging to incarnations of the human deities, seized in the earlier phases of the war, when the orcs overran the northern provinces of the Old Empires (e.g. modern Thay).


*Artifacts and relics in the archeological and historical sense, not necessarily the (A)D&D term of art one, though I am by no means opposed to having some of these be items of potent magic.
ericlboyd Posted - 23 Sep 2019 : 18:58:37
I'd have to think about how they ended up in the dragon's horde, but perhaps some elven artifacts or relics "liberated" by the drow during the Elven Court Massacre? I could also imagine there are lost demon-summoning artifacts from the Nentyarch's Court ere Narfell's fall.
Icelander Posted - 23 Sep 2019 : 18:38:08
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

In Dragons of Faerun, I detailed a host of magic items and artifacts contained within the horde of Sharpfangs (Tethyr / Calimshan). I had the idea for a campaign that was the aftermath of a dragon's death (either by the PCs or by old age or some third party). Basically, once the horde is "up for grabs", the ensuing rush to reacquired items of historical import could be cataclysmic for the surrounding area.

Anyhow, it would be fun to start thinking about Iyrauroth's horde. What's in there that would unleash one group or another or one army or another, if only it was restored to whomever values it most?


Well, in my campaign, the reports of Iyrauroth's death (exaggerated) or crippling (somewhat closer to the truth) have brought out dwarves from the Earthfasts seeking relics and items lost in the fall of Roldilar, like the Ardelve and the regalia of the Realm of Glittering Swords.

They've also brought a group of questing orcs, following Yuraugh Farseer, a blind and ancient orcish prophet who was once a Hordemaster of Ilneval, seeking to recover various symbols of authority and rulership associated with the kingdom of Vastar.

Suggestions on what, exactly, these different historical relics and symbols of authority might be are welcome. Bonus points, of course, for any truly ancient and revered artifacts both races claim as an item made by or associated with a cultural hero (or even divine ircantations or demigod, for the orcs), with the true origins unknown to neutral sages (until someone recovers the item).

I must claim some inspiration from Sir Terry Pratchett's Thud.
Icelander Posted - 23 Sep 2019 : 18:27:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

That is why I mentioned that such alliances would be made by his sister and he could "take on" those promises.

Embrurshaile died (was consumed by an errant spell of hers, actually) some 500+ years before Iyrauroth would have entered his slumber, and, in any case is depicted as more of a crazed loner type who talks to herself and devises a solitary magnum opus of metaphysical theory rather than a political figure. More of a Karsus type than a Manshoon one.

At least Iyrauroth is presented as having worked with others on occasion, making it more plausible that any allegiances date to his tenure in the area (between something like -350 DR to the start of Dale Reckoning and the last recorded sighting of him in 572 DR), which was two centuries at minimum, but more probably between seven or nine centuries.

After Embrurshaile's death, Iyrauroth was a major player in her former stomping grounds for a long time, probably about as long as he spent slumbering after the reports of him stop in the 6th century DR.

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

They live in dwarven fortress city so they are protected plenty. That basically means they would focus on thing they know best - multiply. Any overpopulation is solved by sending large group to war with anybody close by. They would be known in underdark but on surface they would be taken as another orc group causing problems. At least in my realms nobody made that connection.

Why 'dwarven' fortress city?

Mount Grimmerfang was the seat of the Overking of Vastar in 572 DR and at that time, Vastar had existed in the area for about thirteen centuries. Surely, it would seem logical that any halls, thrones and fortifications existing under the Hollow Mountain at the time Iyrauroth ate Ologh were built by the orcs of Vastar.

Dwarves are only recorded as having held the Hollow Mountain for a single human generation, about thirty years, and that was after taking it from orcs weakened by civil war.

Granted, it's possible to imagine a truly ancient dwarf mine under the Hollow Mountain dating back to Sarphil in the fifth millennia before Dale Reckoning, but as far as I'm aware, canon doesn't mention anything about the Hollow Mountain until it enters the historical record as the capital of an orcish kingdom.

Remember, the orcs who founded Vastar in the 8th century BDR were grey orc descendants of the Orcgate Wars orcs, who were much more advanced, organized and civilized than modern orcs and were led by deities, demigods and divine incarnations in the wars shortly before emigrating to the Vast.

Gruumsh is a god of territory and conquest, so grey orc warlords with the blood of his incarnations seem very likely to have built grand fortresses in the new lands they conquered, after regrouping from their painful defeat to the Old Empires.

Even if there was a structure of some sort there when the orcs ocfupied it, it would seem more likely to have been built by the minotaurs of Grong-Haap than dwarves.

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

Also I hate those template battles - turtle ninja with wings and holy sword flying on purple carpet.
For me city of orcs that have some better equipment and possible help of kobolds sounds fine. Now they have dragon so they get bold...


The PCs are allied with an orcish 'king' in the Earthfasts, Urbakh the Undying, who wants to reunite the divided clans into a new kingdom of Vastar. The orcs living near Mount Grimmerfang are not considered among the potential subjects of a reinvigorated Vastar, for some reason, as despite holding the old orcish capital, they've made no claim to the title of Overking for untold orcish generations.

Having the local orc tribe be 'polluted' from the perspective of orthodox grey orc shamans and warchanters, because of breeding with dragons and/or demons, provides a good reason why Mount Grimmerfang is not a center for modern grey orc racial pride and the ambitions of warlords dreaming of past glories.

The PCs won't massacre orcs just for being orcish, but demonic descendants of Iyrauroth bred to be perfect warriors are another matter entirely. Orcs are people, albeit callous and violent people from a vicious culture, who unfortunately compete for the same resources as humans. Demons, dragons and their spawn bred for warfare are much easier to view as simply monstrous, whether or not that view is justified or not.
ericlboyd Posted - 23 Sep 2019 : 18:02:07
In Dragons of Faerun, I detailed a host of magic items and artifacts contained within the horde of Sharpfangs (Tethyr / Calimshan). I had the idea for a campaign that was the aftermath of a dragon's death (either by the PCs or by old age or some third party). Basically, once the horde is "up for grabs", the ensuing rush to reacquired items of historical import could be cataclysmic for the surrounding area.

Anyhow, it would be fun to start thinking about Iyrauroth's horde. What's in there that would unleash one group or another or one army or another, if only it was restored to whomever values it most?
Wrigley Posted - 23 Sep 2019 : 17:12:26
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

As for his allies - I have Drow in Maerimydra (under Ashabenford), duergars (under Hillsfar - former Sarphil domain) and fire giants (under Dragonspine mts.). Demons are plenty in Vaasa, Damara and Implitur so some of them could find a demoncist with ally inside easily.

I've found no evidence that Iyrauroth was active or even awake during the years between 572 DR and 1369 DR. It's theoretically possible he briefly awakened during that time without any source recording it, but then again, it's also very plausible that like many other great wyrms, Iyrauroth had dwindled into somnolence and would not have awakened without help.

If he truly slumbered for most of modern history in the Moonsea and Vast, it's likely that any allegiances with shorter lived races were long lost by the time he awakened. Pacts with demons might have endured, however, and drow and duergar might theoretically have descendants that remembered an allegiance with the Wyrm of the Peaks.


That is why I mentioned that such alliances would be made by his sister and he could "take on" those promises.

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

In my game Mount Grimmerfang was occupied by orcs and still is a dwarven city full of them, now under rule of Iyrauroth.


In my campaign, the PCs have heard rumours that a tribe of orcs that worships Iyrauroth as a god lives under Mount Grimmerfang, but 'tribe of orcs' might refer to any number of different situations.

It might be eighty inbred and degenerate orcs surviving on wells, springs, fungal growths and verdant valleys meant for a kingdom, secure from other orcs due to ancient fortifications, or it could be warlike society of thousands of dragonblooded orogs with a strong tradition of demon-pacted warlocks, ruled by a son or daughter of Iyrauroth, a wyrm or great wyrm in their own right by now.


They live in dwarven fortress city so they are protected plenty. That basically means they would focus on thing they know best - multiply. Any overpopulation is solved by sending large group to war with anybody close by. They would be known in underdark but on surface they would be taken as another orc group causing problems. At least in my realms nobody made that connection.

Also I hate those template battles - turtle ninja with wings and holy sword flying on purple carpet.
For me city of orcs that have some better equipment and possible help of kobolds sounds fine. Now they have dragon so they get bold...
Icelander Posted - 23 Sep 2019 : 12:36:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

Good to be back to these halls after a long time.
Regarding your second question - It should be more Iyrauroth's sister Embrurshaile who had conections with Sarphil as they occupied most of Galena mts. where she certainly had her lairs.

Indeed, but Sarphil must have reached far enough south to make it plausible that the dwarves could ally with elves 'on the battlefields of the Vast', against hordes of orcs, in the fifth millennia before DR, as is canon.

Which means that more or less every place that Embrurshaile and Iyrauroth have been seen or reputed to lair was within or adjacent to ancient Sarphil.

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

As for his allies - I have Drow in Maerimydra (under Ashabenford), duergars (under Hillsfar - former Sarphil domain) and fire giants (under Dragonspine mts.). Demons are plenty in Vaasa, Damara and Implitur so some of them could find a demoncist with ally inside easily.

I've found no evidence that Iyrauroth was active or even awake during the years between 572 DR and 1369 DR. It's theoretically possible he briefly awakened during that time without any source recording it, but then again, it's also very plausible that like many other great wyrms, Iyrauroth had dwindled into somnolence and would not have awakened without help.

If he truly slumbered for most of modern history in the Moonsea and Vast, it's likely that any allegiances with shorter lived races were long lost by the time he awakened. Pacts with demons might have endured, however, and drow and duergar might theoretically have descendants that remembered an allegiance with the Wyrm of the Peaks.

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

In my game Mount Grimmerfang was occupied by orcs and still is a dwarven city full of them, now under rule of Iyrauroth.


In my campaign, the PCs have heard rumours that a tribe of orcs that worships Iyrauroth as a god lives under Mount Grimmerfang, but 'tribe of orcs' might refer to any number of different situations.

It might be eighty inbred and degenerate orcs surviving on wells, springs, fungal growths and verdant valleys meant for a kingdom, secure from other orcs due to ancient fortifications, or it could be warlike society of thousands of dragonblooded orogs with a strong tradition of demon-pacted warlocks, ruled by a son or daughter of Iyrauroth, a wyrm or great wyrm in their own right by now.
Wrigley Posted - 19 Sep 2019 : 23:31:08
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Amazingly, the PCs have not yet made it to the Hollow Mountain, largely due to real-life concerns limiting play time in this campaign. However, the final confrontation approaches and within a month or two, I will certainly be called upon to present Iyrauroth, the Wyrm of the Peaks.

First of all, has any new lore emerged about his activities between eating Ologh the Overking and being awakened by the Wyrmsmoke Cell of the Cult of the Dragon in 1369 DR?

Second, what historical connections, if any, does Iyrauroth have with Sarphil, the ancient dwarven realm of northeastern Faerun?

Third, which of the following seem most plausible as features of Iyrauroth's backstory and/or allies of his surviving progeny between 400-1369 DR; demons, drow or duergar?



Good to be back to these halls after a long time.
Regarding your second question - It should be more Iyrauroth's sister Embrurshaile who had conections with Sarphil as they occupied most of Galena mts. where she certainly had her lairs.

As for his allies - I have Drow in Maerimydra (under Ashabenford), duergars (under Hillsfar - former Sarphil domain) and fire giants (under Dragonspine mts.). Demons are plenty in Vaasa, Damara and Implitur so some of them could find a demoncist with ally inside easily.
In my game Mount Grimmerfang was occupied by orcs and still is a dwarven city full of them, now under rule of Iyrauroth.
Gary Dallison Posted - 19 Sep 2019 : 18:27:43
Easy way to find out, do a search on something popular like waterdeep or Tyr and see if you get any results. I found a few results for moonshae if you want to use that as a test
Icelander Posted - 19 Sep 2019 : 18:03:50
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Huh, you learn something new every day.

George's new stuff has been confined to impiltur and thay mostly with a bit on calimshan/chessenta and the Layla maurshanta which I don't believe touches the vast much.

The impiltur timeline is probably your best bit for sarphil goodies.

Eric is confining himself to the north for now and Ed's new stuff was on the border kingdoms. Although if you search his Twitter feed you might find something about sarphil and or iyrauroth (I think the address is sageadvice.eu or something like that which searches through them for you).

Cant say I've looked for anything iyrauroth related lately.


Thanks for the sageadvice.eu pointer, I don't have Twitter and wouldn't have been able to see any of Ed's 'tweets' without it.

The search function didn't turn up anything on Iyrauroth, Earthspurs or Sarphil, but maybe I'm using it wrong.
Gary Dallison Posted - 18 Sep 2019 : 19:22:09
Huh, you learn something new every day.

George's new stuff has been confined to impiltur and thay mostly with a bit on calimshan/chessenta and the Layla maurshanta which I don't believe touches the vast much.

The impiltur timeline is probably your best bit for sarphil goodies.

Eric is confining himself to the north for now and Ed's new stuff was on the border kingdoms. Although if you search his Twitter feed you might find something about sarphil and or iyrauroth (I think the address is sageadvice.eu or something like that which searches through them for you).

Cant say I've looked for anything iyrauroth related lately.
Icelander Posted - 18 Sep 2019 : 19:17:39
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Nothing new has been published on iyrauroth or anything 1300s related because nothing new has been published on that era period (and nothing of any usefulness or quality has been published in the last two editions).

George Krashos or other scribes of renown might have written something, regardless of official publication status.

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


I think sarphil was brought down by drow wasnt it. Iyrauroth and demons doesn't seem like a good fit to me and I don't know of any duergar in the vast region, which leaves just drow.


Well, from reading Snowblood's fan supplement on Sarphil, they warred extensively with drow, duergar and goblinoids, as well as having less common, but nevertheless disastrous conflicts with demons, dragons and vampires.

However, I'm still in the process of sifting through that fanwork to determine which parts of it are canonical lore nuggets and which are original creations of Snowblood. Hence, my questions.

Also, if the RGPA 'Living City' materials are considered canonical, there is a duergar city deep beneath Calaunt, to go with the nearby drow city of Nar'Vheen.
Gary Dallison Posted - 18 Sep 2019 : 18:52:17
Nothing new has been published on iyrauroth or anything 1300s related because nothing new has been published on that era period (and nothing of any usefulness or quality has been published in the last two editions).

I think sarphil was brought down by drow wasnt it. Iyrauroth and demons doesn't seem like a good fit to me and I don't know of any duergar in the vast region, which leaves just drow.
Icelander Posted - 18 Sep 2019 : 17:47:13
Amazingly, the PCs have not yet made it to the Hollow Mountain, largely due to real-life concerns limiting play time in this campaign. However, the final confrontation approaches and within a month or two, I will certainly be called upon to present Iyrauroth, the Wyrm of the Peaks.

First of all, has any new lore emerged about his activities between eating Ologh the Overking and being awakened by the Wyrmsmoke Cell of the Cult of the Dragon in 1369 DR?

Second, what historical connections, if any, does Iyrauroth have with Sarphil, the ancient dwarven realm of northeastern Faerun?

Third, which of the following seem most plausible as features of Iyrauroth's backstory and/or allies of his surviving progeny between 400-1369 DR; demons, drow or duergar?
cpthero2 Posted - 06 Oct 2018 : 14:29:25
Master Icelander,

I'd suggest having him have a connection to an older timeline of the Realms. Associate him somehow with Netheril, Jhaamdath, Imaskar, etc. So much mystery, intrigue, and history with those now fallen nations. Well, I guess Netheril is back, but you know what I mean.

Best regards,




quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

3rd Ed had several different ways to make dragons of great age more than "just" great wyrms. Even 2nd Ed. had a couple (admittedly less interesting options). I'd suggest looking through that material and using one of the pre-designed templates.


I can easily make Iyrauroth more powerful in some way than 'just' a great wyrm. What I am looking for are opinions on a) whether he should be, in any way, different from 'mere' great wyrms, and b) How he has chosen to focus his learning, spellcasting and martial abilities in comparison with other wyrms of his age.

As an unmodified great wyrm black dragon, under D&D rules, he has something like 13 feats. How he spends them makes a major difference to what he can do, magically, martially and otherwise.

In GURPS, I'm not actually going to stat Iyrauroth with D&D Feats, but it's a guideline as to how much extra stuff other than his size, strength and being the equivalent of a 15th level Sorcerer to give him. Some D&D style Feats are just skills in GURPS, some are Advantages and others are super Powers. Yet others are combat options available to everyone, in which case one might reflect a character who has that Feat in D&D by making him slightly more skilled at a combat style which makes frequent use of that option.

As I said, I read the sources on Iyrauroth, slight as they are, as indicating that despite many great dragons considering him and his get a thread, he was not destroyed. As he is not especially famous for his ferocity in battle against humanoids*, I'm guessing that this means that he is cunning and knows a lot of magic that help him hide and secure his resting places.

*We know he slew Ologh the Overking of Vastar, but any great wyrm ought to be able to slay a single humanoid, no matter how politically powerful. Eating a king is evidence of royal tastes, not necessarily the ability to destroy armies of humanoids with ease, at least no more ease than any other great wyrm.

Icelander Posted - 29 Aug 2018 : 14:11:51
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

3rd Ed had several different ways to make dragons of great age more than "just" great wyrms. Even 2nd Ed. had a couple (admittedly less interesting options). I'd suggest looking through that material and using one of the pre-designed templates.


I can easily make Iyrauroth more powerful in some way than 'just' a great wyrm. What I am looking for are opinions on a) whether he should be, in any way, different from 'mere' great wyrms, and b) How he has chosen to focus his learning, spellcasting and martial abilities in comparison with other wyrms of his age.

As an unmodified great wyrm black dragon, under D&D rules, he has something like 13 feats. How he spends them makes a major difference to what he can do, magically, martially and otherwise.

In GURPS, I'm not actually going to stat Iyrauroth with D&D Feats, but it's a guideline as to how much extra stuff other than his size, strength and being the equivalent of a 15th level Sorcerer to give him. Some D&D style Feats are just skills in GURPS, some are Advantages and others are super Powers. Yet others are combat options available to everyone, in which case one might reflect a character who has that Feat in D&D by making him slightly more skilled at a combat style which makes frequent use of that option.

As I said, I read the sources on Iyrauroth, slight as they are, as indicating that despite many great dragons considering him and his get a thread, he was not destroyed. As he is not especially famous for his ferocity in battle against humanoids*, I'm guessing that this means that he is cunning and knows a lot of magic that help him hide and secure his resting places.

*We know he slew Ologh the Overking of Vastar, but any great wyrm ought to be able to slay a single humanoid, no matter how politically powerful. Eating a king is evidence of royal tastes, not necessarily the ability to destroy armies of humanoids with ease, at least no more ease than any other great wyrm.
The Masked Mage Posted - 29 Aug 2018 : 12:57:37
3rd Ed had several different ways to make dragons of great age more than "just" great wyrms. Even 2nd Ed. had a couple (admittedly less interesting options). I'd suggest looking through that material and using one of the pre-designed templates.
Icelander Posted - 29 Aug 2018 : 08:08:39
I'm detailing the lair protections of Iyrauroth.

I think that at least one tribe of draconic humanoids ought to live there. I'm debating whether they ought to be orcs, hobgoblins or bugbears.

And, as the progenitor of the tribe of draconic humanoids, one of Iyrauroth's get is still living, hiding in the Hollow Mountain. S/he would be at least of wyrm age, by now, and is a bit of recluse, perhaps even to the point of agoraphobia.

What I know about Iyrauroth from canon sources is that he had already become a great wyrm in 451 DR, which makes him over 2,000 years old in 1373 DR. That means that he has spent a lot of time slumbering in the last centuries, but it might also mean that he's more powerful than a younger great wyrm would be.

Iyrauroth's sister Embrurshaile was magically powerful beyond the standard dragon, but we do not know to what extent, if any, her brother shared her magical might.

By the normal 3e/3.5 rules (which I'm using as short-hand for scribes here, not as the actual rules system at my table), Iyrauroth will know two 7th level spells and his get will know two 6th level spells. The highest level spells known by the dragons are kind of defining for their spellcasting abilities and threat. Does anyone have ideas?

From the feeling I get from the isolated mentions of Iyrauroth in the few sources he appears, I think he ought to be very good at keeping hidden, defending lairs and avoiding other dragons who are hunting him and his get. He probably ought to be fighting above his weight class in duels against other dragons, as otherwise it would not make much sense for such a wide variety of dragons to fear him and his offspring.

I think that his feat selection ought to be spread between metamagic feats that allow him to hide his lair for long periods even from advanced scrying and then combat feats primarily useful against other large, flying creatures. He doesn't really need feats to allow him to maximise his slaying capability against hordes of humanoids, largely because as a great wyrm dragon, Iyrauroth doesn't need any assistance in eating his fill from masses of humanoids.
Icelander Posted - 29 Aug 2018 : 08:01:20
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

I can only speak of the Vast in 1e, 2e, and 3e, but there are a few intriguing references to Cult activity there. Fortunately I took notes on it all and put the lore up on the wiki.

Circa 1350 DR, the Cult raided a barrow tomb in the Beluar's Hunt hills outside Kurth and disturbed a stag-horned lich. It did not go well for them. Given the proximity to Kurth, I suspect this was Velvet's cell, and might be why its numbers are low.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Beluar%27s_Hunt

The Arch of Goolgog portal provides easy passage to the Battle of Bones, which lies close to the Cult base at the Well of Dragons. It's a forgotten portal, but they could rediscover it. The Cult wouldn't need a base in the Vast at all, if they can use the portal to cross back and forth.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Arch_of_Goolgog

It's suspected there are agents in Procampur circa 1359 DR.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Procampur#Organizations

Finally, this guy wanders but can be found in the Vast, among other places. There doesn't seem to be much else on him, nor is he connected to any cell. Free agent, maybe?
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Asbras_Hlumin


Thanks for all those.

I'll especially look into the Arch of Goolgog connection to the Well of Dragons, as that could be a very nice solution for the Followers of the Scaly Way trapped in Iyrauroth's lair.

Also, Asbras Hlumin sounds like a nice encounter. I imagine he's heard about Iyrauroth, but doesn't know how to find the lair. So he's waiting around in King's Reach trying to spot Cultists or someone else who seems to be headed there.
Icelander Posted - 22 Apr 2018 : 13:29:06
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, I figure the Cult has to have a major base of operations, and since The Vast has no central government, its the perfect place for them to recruit and have 'training camps', and what-not.

True, in so far as the Cult needs wilderness lairs for its bandits or dragon-blooded humanoids, the Vast seems a fairish place to put them. Of course, they already have such lairs in the nearby Moonsea north and, of course, in Vaasa (though impassable mountains separate those from the Vast).

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Which brings me to this: The brood of Iyrauroth. From what little I see here, he doesn't seem to the type to kill-off 'useful tools', which is how he was using his progeny. I don't understand why his offspring couldn't have dwindled through normal attrition. Aside from adventurers, many were probably lost in attacks against superior foes (several up-and-coming kingdoms all around there, including Impiltur), and you also have the Cult of the dragon 'recruiting' in the region (so maybe a bunch of them became dracoliches), plus, when their 'big Daddy' took his long nap, a lot of them probably decided to seek their fortunes elsewhere (since normally, dragons don't all share a territory like that). Many of them probably went very far away - I don't know why you would think a 50-ton intelligent, flying engine of destruction needs to stay anywhere. It could very well be that half the existing black dragons in Faerūn (and beyond) could be descendants of his, just spread out all over.

Plus, other dragons would be a big problem. IIRC, there is a family of whites living in the Glacier of the White Worm, and just to the north on the great glacier there are many white dragons, not to mention blues and a few others. Once the leader was out-of-the-picture for awhile, and they fell to squabbling (as all dragons would), they would have made for easy-picking for older, more powerful dragons around.

And I am sure the Ogres themselves (not to mention other humanoids) probably put a dent in their numbers when they took over to begin with. Most ogres may be too stupid to do that, but the Thar ogres were bigger and smarter - superior members of their race. They built a kingdom, after all. They would have put up a good fight against dragons (and there are tribes of frost giants in the area as well, and giants love to fight dragons).


I agree that Iyrauroth seems to have no motivation even implied in canon to slay his own get, at least not while they continue to obey him as his loyal tools.

I note that according to Myrmeen Lhal's research in Ed Greenwood's Forging the Realms article where a lot of the detail on Iyrauroth's early career is from, many other dragons sought to exterminate Iyrauroth's get, to weaken his power base. So add that to the above factors.
Markustay Posted - 22 Apr 2018 : 07:39:11
Well, I figure the Cult has to have a major base of operations, and since The Vast has no central government, its the perfect place for them to recruit and have 'training camps', and what-not.

Which brings me to this: The brood of Iyrauroth. From what little I see here, he doesn't seem to the type to kill-off 'useful tools', which is how he was using his progeny. I don't understand why his offspring couldn't have dwindled through normal attrition. Aside from adventurers, many were probably lost in attacks against superior foes (several up-and-coming kingdoms all around there, including Impiltur), and you also have the Cult of the dragon 'recruiting' in the region (so maybe a bunch of them became dracoliches), plus, when their 'big Daddy' took his long nap, a lot of them probably decided to seek their fortunes elsewhere (since normally, dragons don't all share a territory like that). Many of them probably went very far away - I don't know why you would think a 50-ton intelligent, flying engine of destruction needs to stay anywhere. It could very well be that half the existing black dragons in Faerūn (and beyond) could be descendants of his, just spread out all over.

Plus, other dragons would be a big problem. IIRC, there is a family of whites living in the Glacier of the White Worm, and just to the north on the great glacier there are many white dragons, not to mention blues and a few others. Once the leader was out-of-the-picture for awhile, and they fell to squabbling (as all dragons would), they would have made for easy-picking for older, more powerful dragons around.

And I am sure the Ogres themselves (not to mention other humanoids) probably put a dent in their numbers when they took over to begin with. Most ogres may be too stupid to do that, but the Thar ogres were bigger and smarter - superior members of their race. They built a kingdom, after all. They would have put up a good fight against dragons (and there are tribes of frost giants in the area as well, and giants love to fight dragons).
BadCatMan Posted - 22 Apr 2018 : 02:51:29
I can only speak of the Vast in 1e, 2e, and 3e, but there are a few intriguing references to Cult activity there. Fortunately I took notes on it all and put the lore up on the wiki.

Circa 1350 DR, the Cult raided a barrow tomb in the Beluar's Hunt hills outside Kurth and disturbed a stag-horned lich. It did not go well for them. Given the proximity to Kurth, I suspect this was Velvet's cell, and might be why its numbers are low.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Beluar%27s_Hunt

The Arch of Goolgog portal provides easy passage to the Battle of Bones, which lies close to the Cult base at the Well of Dragons. It's a forgotten portal, but they could rediscover it. The Cult wouldn't need a base in the Vast at all, if they can use the portal to cross back and forth.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Arch_of_Goolgog

It's suspected there are agents in Procampur circa 1359 DR.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Procampur#Organizations

Finally, this guy wanders but can be found in the Vast, among other places. There doesn't seem to be much else on him, nor is he connected to any cell. Free agent, maybe?
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Asbras_Hlumin
Icelander Posted - 21 Apr 2018 : 13:47:56
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Thanks for that. I just realised – the Wyrmsmoke cell is the same cell that woke up Iyrauroth circa 1369 DR (the previously unnamed cell was based north of Glister, in the Galenas, where the Wyrmsmoke cell is now described as being). Wearer of Purple Dalgar, "Blood of Iyrauroth", must have thought he'd be a big man waking up Granddad Iyrauroth and getting him to join the cult, but he had other ideas.


That's nice.

The Wyrmsmoke cell has dragonic orcs and with Dalgar being called the 'Blood of Iyrauroth', it lends support to the idea that Iyrauroth or his get may have bred with orcs in the Thar.

Now that Iyrauroth has moved hundreds of miles south, to lair in the Hollow Mountain / Mount Grimmerfang, where would the Dragon Cultists concerned with him be based?

In my campaign, I had him get involved with some very important actions of the central leadership of the Cult. Iyrauroth did not accept the leadership of the Wearers of Purple, but he did condescend to ally with them, after a personal appeal by Sammaster First-Speaker, and a promise of certain artifacts and tomes of lore from the Master's Library on Iron Dragon Mountain.

After the dramatic failure of the attack on the Master's Library, Iyrauroth had been seriously wounded and blinded, fighting the archmages Sebastian Silverlocke and Martin MacGreggor (the latter in dragon form), as well as the PCs. He managed to fly off to his (relatively) nearby lair before he slipped into a deep, healing sleep.

I'm wondering who might know where his lair was to be found and try to convince the Wyrm of the Peaks that accepting the 'gift' of the Cult and becoming a Sacred One would cure all his wounds and give him magical vision.

In my campaign, the Wearer of Purple who originally found out about Iyrauroth's secret lair in the Vast, the necromancer Estrella Dreamheart, still lives, but has gone into hiding from the senior leadership, to avoid punishment for her disastrous leadership and strategy in being responsible for the attack on Iron Dragon Mountain.

Of course, with closest dragonic ally slain in the attack and most of her support network being Cult personnel, Estrella might well have determined that Iyrauroth's secret lair was her best potential hiding place, if she thought she could convince the Rage-added great wyrm not to blame her for his crippling wounds.

I know that the young black dragon 'Velvet', in the Flooded Forest, is supported by a Cult of the Dragon cell based either in Calaunt or in Kurth. If there is no canon information to the contrary, I'd prefer Kurth. 'Malachite', the green wyrm, lairs in the forests south of Mulmaster and is supported by a Cult cell in or close to Mulmaster.

I'd guess that the Mulmaster cell was more likely to mount an ambitious operation like trying to make such a truly ancient great wyrm as Iyrauroth into a dracolich. It's bigger, with factions that can have different goals, and it already has made contact with an older dragon, in 'Malachite'. The Flooded Forest cell in Kurth or Calaunt is involved with a much less powerful dragon and probably has limited resources in comparison.

Are there any other nearby Cult of the Dragon cells to the Hollow Mountain / Mount Grimmerfang?
BadCatMan Posted - 18 Apr 2018 : 02:09:04
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I reckon I got the idea of Iyrauroth as his parent from a description of the draconic orcs that Iyrauroth used to destroy the ogre kingdom of Thar and also from the dragons of faerun book which mentions a member of the cult of the Dragon cell in the galenas as having a member who is of the blood of Iyrauroth.


Thanks for that. I just realised – the Wyrmsmoke cell is the same cell that woke up Iyrauroth circa 1369 DR (the previously unnamed cell was based north of Glister, in the Galenas, where the Wyrmsmoke cell is now described as being). Wearer of Purple Dalgar, "Blood of Iyrauroth", must have thought he'd be a big man waking up Granddad Iyrauroth and getting him to join the cult, but he had other ideas.
Icelander Posted - 17 Apr 2018 : 23:06:11
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'm certain he is of the blood of Vorbyx which should be pretty powerful in itself.

Is that from any of the Thar sourcebooks, an article online, Ed, Krashos or your own theory?

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I reckon I got the idea of Iyrauroth as his parent from a description of the draconic orcs that Iyrauroth used to destroy the ogre kingdom of Thar and also from the dragons of faerun book which mentions a member of the cult of the Dragon cell in the galenas as having a member who is of the blood of Iyrauroth. I just joined all the dots as I saw fit because I wanted to have another practitioner of the new type of magic I created (bloodline magic), although I suspect I read the idea in one of Eds Dragon articles some time ago.

That's fair enough and I'm leaning toward using dragon-blooded orcs in my campaign. I just wanted to read all the relevant sources before I made anything up.

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I like the shark analogy, it explains why there aren't many depictions of dragons eating humanoids.


Huh, I'd say there's plenty of mentions of it, both in general folklore and in the Realms in specific.

But, granted, humans are really bony, tend to carry inconvenient less-than-edible objects and in general make inferior sources of meat for a large creature than cattle, buffalo, elephants and all the other herbivores of the Shaar and other places.

Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000