| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 03 Feb 2016 : 14:40:33
I'm playing with some rules creations, and of course lack of examples for power comparison becomes a problem. I'd love to say I'd playtest all of this, but let's face it some things just need to see print and then get tweaked.
Anyway, has anyone seen in 5e some decent examples to simulate various metamagic abilities? I know that some things are simulated within the spells themselves where they're simply cast at a higher level. |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Feb 2016 : 23:23:23
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Be wary of what you ask for George. A lot of those 2e spells where one spell affected another were prone to issues. Granted, their release in 2e gave people the time to think through things and later fix them. Rainbow shield, persistent spell, and numerous other open ended spell formats were just rife for abuse.
Still, there were some of these that yes, probably should be revisited. Not sure if I'd say vocalize to be one though. It'd be better as a special class ability, part of a feat... something to make it not just another tool that anyone can pick up and have ready in some kind of "hung spell" format.
You're absolutely right sleyvas, but it always comes down to balance in the end. There have always been egregious examples of stuff in the game - I vividly remember the day you let me know on the REALMS-L just how awesome (and bad) the spell 'sphere of wonder' was. I was thinking of spells that let you 'concentrate' on more than one spell, or ignore damage for the purposes of a concentration check, etc - not a re-do of the 'mantle' spell!
-- George Krashos
OMG, I hadn't thought of sphere of wonder in forever. Yeah, that was just nasty, especially in the hands of someone who cast it to make only spell types that they were immune to work in the area (they then use said spell types to decimate people).
On the idea of concentration... yes, that's exactly the type of thing I'm working on right now already. I want to design a feat for it that opens up other possibilities. I'm also making a magic item that is sentient that was designed during Jhaamdath's era that can concentrate for the spellcaster, (the magic item never caught on until now when suddenly concentration is needed on a lot of spells that didn't need it before). Said item will have some other abilities to go along with its sentience. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Feb 2016 : 08:30:49
Anyway, there are metamagic spells that don't work well glued to the base spell. And the ones with offensive use, like Abeyance or Maladweomer. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 05 Feb 2016 : 01:43:53
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Be wary of what you ask for George. A lot of those 2e spells where one spell affected another were prone to issues. Granted, their release in 2e gave people the time to think through things and later fix them. Rainbow shield, persistent spell, and numerous other open ended spell formats were just rife for abuse.
Still, there were some of these that yes, probably should be revisited. Not sure if I'd say vocalize to be one though. It'd be better as a special class ability, part of a feat... something to make it not just another tool that anyone can pick up and have ready in some kind of "hung spell" format.
You're absolutely right sleyvas, but it always comes down to balance in the end. There have always been egregious examples of stuff in the game - I vividly remember the day you let me know on the REALMS-L just how awesome (and bad) the spell 'sphere of wonder' was. I was thinking of spells that let you 'concentrate' on more than one spell, or ignore damage for the purposes of a concentration check, etc - not a re-do of the 'mantle' spell!
-- George Krashos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Feb 2016 : 00:35:09
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I've always liked the idea of spells enhancing/tweaking subsequent spells. 3E went to feats, 5E appears to have moved back to the good old days of extension and vocalize. In my view this promotes variety and planning and does away with some of the more egregious metamagic combos that were available to high level casters in 3E. Say that gives me an idea for an article ...
-- George Krashos
Be wary of what you ask for George. A lot of those 2e spells where one spell affected another were prone to issues. Granted, their release in 2e gave people the time to think through things and later fix them. Rainbow shield, persistent spell, and numerous other open ended spell formats were just rife for abuse.
Still, there were some of these that yes, probably should be revisited. Not sure if I'd say vocalize to be one though. It'd be better as a special class ability, part of a feat... something to make it not just another tool that anyone can pick up and have ready in some kind of "hung spell" format.
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| Irennan |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 20:39:21
In 5e only sorcerers get to use metamagic (and it is a built-in, class specific feature).
That said, I too like the idea of spells enhancing other spells. I love the concept behind the Simbul's Spell Matrix, for example. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 20:23:45
I've always liked the idea of spells enhancing/tweaking subsequent spells. 3E went to feats, 5E appears to have moved back to the good old days of extension and vocalize. In my view this promotes variety and planning and does away with some of the more egregious metamagic combos that were available to high level casters in 3E. Say that gives me an idea for an article ...
-- George Krashos |
| Faraer |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 19:13:00
By far the most extensive and sophisticated implementation of Realms 'metamagic' is the scores of such second-edition spells, and those are Realmslore irrespective of whether they've been converted yet to some other ruleset. I think the solution I'd prefer would be a combination of spells with class abilities for non-specialist wizards (which far outnumber specialists in the Realms, so that by-the-book 5E can't actually represent most Faerūnian mages). Spells are also convertible to other versions of the rules, whereas feats are specific to post-second-edition D&D and are optional rules in 5E that many people don't use. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 16:14:48
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
And the reason to not simply use Vocalize spell is?..
Because as far as I know its not in 5e
Oh, that's a horrible waist-high hedge. No way past it. Let's replace everything with Summon Monster I now.
I mean, seriously? 
quote:
, and the move to making it a feat instead of a spell in 3e was a good step.
I struggle to imagine how turning anything into a feat can improve the situation.
Also, is there some reason to not have both? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 13:38:53
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
And the reason to not simply use Vocalize spell is?..
Because as far as I know its not in 5e, and the move to making it a feat instead of a spell in 3e was a good step.
But, I was actually looking for anything published so far (i.e. unearthed arcana articles, maybe some obscure entry in modules, or even things I've overlooked in the PH/DMG/MM/SCAG). I'm more looking for wording mechanics. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 04 Feb 2016 : 02:46:44
And the reason to not simply use Vocalize spell is?.. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 03 Feb 2016 : 16:33:19
I've been toying with the idea of making something like Silent Spell something you can train as a Proficiency. Put in enough Downtime Days practicing spells, and you gain Proficiency in casting spells without using Verbal Components. Up until then, you must make a Stealth roll to cast the spell at a whisper. If you break 15+spell level, you whisper it quietly enough nobody notices. DC 25+ Spell level, you manage to get it out without saying a word.
I'm not a rules/balance guru, I'm just toying with how difficult I want it to be, and what's fun for me and my players. But that's what I've been doing. There hasn't been any interest for other Metamagic feats at my table. Eschew Materials is kinda mute because a wand / staff serves that function. |
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