| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 16:33:06
I've made no secret of my belief that I'd like to see there be some kind of "relationship" between Mask and Leira going on. Whether this blossoms into a "romance" between the gods is a question for another day, or it could just be a simple case of their "hooking up" for now. NOTE: in all this, I'm not stating a definitive "sexual" relationship as gods don't mate, but they do seem to have emotions similiar to our own.
This can lead to some interesting story/npc/pc options where individuals of both priesthoods or possibly lay worshippers may be involved with one another (i.e. as goes the heavens, so goes the earth).
Along these lines, are there any other things which seem to people to be "obvious" pairings? I'll list a few that just jump out to me
Leira / Mask
Bane / Loviatar
Lathander as "playing the field" with Chauntea, Tymora, Sune, and probably a lot of other good goddesses
Osiris / Isis (this one is documented, correct?)
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 Feb 2013 : 14:03:36
Cyric and Nuitari. They're both gays, right? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Feb 2013 : 14:02:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Jocularity aside, I wonder how worshippers who follow both deities would respond to any emotional and/or romantic conflict that would arise between Hanali and Sune.
Like Larajin, for example, from Heirs of Prophecy by Lisa Smedman. She worshipped both Hanali and Sune, but often found her life's course being pulled in the direction of either one or the other deity.
Imagine how much more compelling a player's roleplaying experience would become if there were to be a romantic component being shared between the two deities this player's character might be worshipping in-game?
Yeah, that was actually my goal with starting this thread. Not necessarily to document which deities are documented as being with one another, but more which deities are with one another and whose relationship might be mirrored by their clergy. For instance, I don't find the Mystra/Kelemvor combine all that interesting in this scenario, because I don't see a natural draw amongst their clergy. However, a Talosian/Umberlee relationship mirrored on earth kind of makes sense.... and it could also mirror anything going on in the heavens if there's fighting, etc.... The same could go for a Leira/Mask relationship where the two clergy are playing a game of intrigues & lies with each other whilst working as spies. Similarly, a red knight/Tempus relationship could be interesting as both focus on aspects of war if mirrored on earth, but interestingly, the red knight follower may be the leader as a twist. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Feb 2013 : 13:50:58
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
On a side note, how big of a character is Cale in Heirs of Prophecy? Admittedly, after what happened in Twilight Wars, I'm not sure I could read a book with him in it that happens before. I wished I had read the Sembia novels first, but oh well. This is one of the reasons I'm anticipating Godborn. The Amazon summary was such a tease!
I'm going from memory... but aside from a brief cameo appearance, Cale doesn't feature in the plot of Heirs of Prophecy. It's entirely about Larajin and her conflicted faith between Sune and Hanali.
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| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 14 Feb 2013 : 06:37:09
I didn't know about the Realms in '04, and compared to a lot of people on this site, I'm fairly ignorant. There is much I don't know, even on the aspects of the Realms I like the best (elves, drow, gods).
On a side note, how big of a character is Cale in Heirs of Prophecy? Admittedly, after what happened in Twilight Wars, I'm not sure I could read a book with him in it that happens before. I wished I had read the Sembia novels first, but oh well. This is one of the reasons I'm anticipating Godborn. The Amazon summary was such a tease! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Feb 2013 : 04:19:43
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Edminster's Forgotten Realms implied that a lot of Faeraunians will pray to more than one deity based on the circumstances. I believe the example used was farmers praying to Chauntea for a good crop and Talos for for storms. But I do see your point, and it is likely true that many will have a deity they pray to most often, "patron" or not.
This is something Ed built into the Realms from the very beginning. As he said back in '04:-
"So that’s the way I did it. DRAGON issue 54 contains my work-in-progress
unfolding of a pantheon of gods, and a glance at that article will show you three things
at work: like all D&D gamers at the time, I was trying to stay official, matching deities
with what Gary Gygax had revealed of his (the Greyhawk setting); I wanted lots of gods
(one aspect of the Realms that’s thus far been neglected is the extent to which Jonthun
the baker next door worships Chauntea for a good harvest, Tymora for good luck in the
baking, Talos for good weather so the grain crops won’t be ruined, and so on, all in the
same day);" |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 14 Feb 2013 : 01:30:09
Edminster's Forgotten Realms implied that a lot of Faeraunians will pray to more than one deity based on the circumstances. I believe the example used was farmers praying to Chauntea for a good crop and Talos for for storms. But I do see your point, and it is likely true that many will have a deity they pray to most often, "patron" or not. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Feb 2013 : 08:20:02
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I know many Faerunians can pay homage to a number of deities (Chauntea for crops and Tymora for luck), ...
Power of Faerûn notes that "Most folk in Faerûn embrace (or drift into) primary worship of one deity above -- even if only slightly above -- all others."
Except for priests, the distinction between your most-worshipped god and your second-most-worshipped god is only quantitative, not qualitative, and not everyone sees their most-worshipped god as their 'patron.'
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| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 13 Feb 2013 : 06:18:38
All right, I'll have to check it out. I like Smedman's writing.
That's true (admittedly I wrote that in a hurry since mom was serving up dinner Yes, I live with my parents). Sune and Hanali do differ in personality, even if they're both "goddesses of love". I've always thought of Sune as more vain and lusty--though I suppose that title goes to Sharess. It might be like serving both Chauntea and Silvanus at the same time--though that might be a little more complicated than Sune and Hanali.
I know many Faerunians can pay homage to a number of deities (Chauntea for crops and Tymora for luck), but it is also true that some may have two "patron" deities. Qilue actually comes to mind. She was both a Chosen of Mystra and High Priestess--one might even say Chosen--of Eilistraee (I was not happy with Qilue's death, and from the sound of things, she didn't even get to go to Arvandor when Eilistraee died because her soul was destroyed--one could argue that, but that's the wording that was used, IIRC. She should have at least been reunited with the spirit of Ilkentar. But then again, I'm a sap, so naturally I'd wish for such things). Anyway, I think Qilue would be another prime example of someone who serves two deities.
And, along those lines, when Eilistraee merged with Vhaeraun and became the Masked Lady, some of the Vhaeraunites worshiped both E and V. That area gets a little gray, though. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Feb 2013 : 03:40:53
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Could I read Heirs of Prophecy by itself?
Pretty much. She appears in some parts of Halls of Stormweather and one other "Sembia" novel as I recall, but Heirs of Prophecy is her main book in the series.
quote:
Hanali and Sune do have different personalities. I think Galaeron commented on this in RotAW. Like most people who have more than one deity, ideologies might clash, but Sune and Hanali are close...ish?
To a point. Though Smedman does an admirable job of illustrating how confusing it can be for a mortal worshipper who follows two deities -- even when they have similar portfolios. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 13 Feb 2013 : 02:49:08
Haven't read that book, though now I may have to. I actually didn't know about the Sembia series until after I read the Erevis Cale and Twilight Wars book. I knew I was probably missing something, since the books made references to past events, but it was enough of a "new" story, if that makes sense, that I wasn't too confused. Could I read Heirs of Prophecy by itself?
Hanali and Sune do have different personalities. I think Galaeron commented on this in RotAW. Like most people who have more than one deity, ideologies might clash, but Sune and Hanali are close...ish? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Feb 2013 : 02:19:13
Jocularity aside, I wonder how worshippers who follow both deities would respond to any emotional and/or romantic conflict that would arise between Hanali and Sune.
Like Larajin, for example, from Heirs of Prophecy by Lisa Smedman. She worshipped both Hanali and Sune, but often found her life's course being pulled in the direction of either one or the other deity.
Imagine how much more compelling a player's roleplaying experience would become if there were to be a romantic component being shared between the two deities this player's character might be worshipping in-game? |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 20:03:50
That works, considering I like to think of them as separate myself. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:58:49
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Haha that would be interesting considering 4e made them aspects of each other.
I was obviously referring to pre-4E. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:48:55
Haha that would be interesting considering 4e made them aspects of each other. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:27:31
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I'd be all for homosexual deity relationships, having several homosexual characters myself. However...not sure about Erevan being Mask's lover. I don't think they'd mesh well, though it might work. How about Vhaeraun and Mask? (I know they're both dead, but whatever). I've actually toyed with the idea of Fenmarel and Shevarash being a couple XD
Well, if we're going to throw same-sex relationships into the mix, can I vote for Hanali Selanil and Sune Firehair? My reasoning should be obvious. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 17:18:54
If mask was to get it on with another guy, I think of all of them, Id rather have Garagos ...mmm what you could do with that many arms :P |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 04:55:46
I'd be all for homosexual deity relationships, having several homosexual characters myself. However...not sure about Erevan being Mask's lover. I don't think they'd mesh well, though it might work. How about Vhaeraun and Mask? (I know they're both dead, but whatever). I've actually toyed with the idea of Fenmarel and Shevarash being a couple XD |
| Gyor |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 04:50:41
Actually how about Mask/Erevan Ilesere as a couple, after all no one says Mask has to be hetrosexual. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 04:36:38
Couples I know of:
Isis/Osris
Sharess/Anhur on again off again, nonmongomous
Tempus/Besheba
Lovitar/Bane
Lanthander/Chanutea (over thanks to Amatuer)
Amatuer/Siamorphia
Llira was invovled with one of her priestesses during the time of troubles. The Priestess was murdered, but that just means she dwells with Llira now, forever in Brightwater.
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| Foxhelm |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 04:02:32
Ed Greenwood's Elminster's Forgotten Realms had a large group in the Gond church believe that their would subsume and marry Waukeen just as their crafters would take control of the merchants to make themselves rich (or something like that, too lazy to get the book for a quote now).
I would be a funny sect of the church who believe that Gond would subsume and marry Mystra as her dominant husband.
Thoughts? |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 03:58:20
I mentioned Mystra and Kelemvor in my first post on this thread, actually.
I love Mask, but I think he's better off single, unless he can find the right match. Then again, you could say that about anyone, god or mortal |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 03:31:15
Dunno, but why hasn't anyone Mentioned Mystra/Midnight and Kelemvor? They were together for at least a little while after his ascention. Maybe that's why they ultimately borke up- he couldn't handle being with a woman who was "above" him in the god-biz! |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 03:06:41
It's my understanding that Tempus and Besheba have something going on. True, or product of the planar tabloids? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 02:45:16
Uh, and let's not ofrget the pairing of Vaerhaun and Zandilar! There was even a little godling born from that one... |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 01:54:23
Icky.....you keep your hands off my mask, he has gone through enough as it is being dead and all, not some misty lady that is even harder to read then the normal female.
If mask had the urge to procreate, ((my version of mask is LN not LE)) I would hook him up with sharess or Waukeen |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 01:47:38
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
A story I conceived once focused on a heretical church that professed that Sune and Lathander were lovers and meant to "marry" them by spreading the canon of their union through the Realms. If enough mortals believe something, the gods ultimately bow to it. The main conflict came about because in this union, Lathander was the superior, Sune the inferior . . . which the main character (a priestess of Sune) had a pretty huge problem with. Though the charismatic jerk of a Lathander priest leading the movement *was* particularly dreamy . . .
Not your average D&D story, but a fun concept.
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Garagos is in love with Shar.
Back when he was still a greater power of war she pretended to return his feelings, but since he was reduced to a mere demipower she doesn't find him useful anymore and stopped pretending.
"I don't know, Garagos. I pretended to like you when you were popular." ~ Shar, the heartless queen of ego crippling since forever
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Perhaps your right, and I take some of what I said back. It wasn't just 4e that said Angarradh was his consort, but Demihuman Deities says it, too. It also says Sehanine is sometimes called the wife of Corellon, and she is the primary aspect of Angharradh (since she was created by Hanali, Aedrie, and Sehanine), so yes, they could both be his lover, which wouldn't make it monogamous, but he's not consorting with any other deities that I know of. Sehanine and Ang seem to be okay with sharing, and since, in a way, Sehanine is literally part of Ang, it is...somewhat monogamous? LOL I don't know, it gets weird if you think about it too much, I'll admit.
We call that "monogamish," actually. 
And (as discussed in Races of the Wild and most of the time you see an elf in a novel talk about the subject, particularly one of mine) elves don't see romantic relationships quite the same way humans do. Elves might get "married" but that's more for family alliances, less for fulfilment of one's emotional needs. The concept of monogamy is extremely strange to them, though sometimes celebrated as a kind of romantic ideal. Such as, if you're going to dedicate potentially thousands of years to one person in the entire world, then you must REALLY love that person. (Or you might just be crazy.)
Cheers
Based on the novels/sourcebooks I've read, including Races of the Wild, my impression was that elves might not form relationships as quickly as humans do, and are more likely to have dalliances before settling down with "the one". This is why many have human lovers. But, elves also idolize love, and when they find the right elf (I say elf because they would outlive their human partner), they mate for life. When elves do mate/and or marry, they are loyal to each other, but may go on separate adventures or live a part for some years in order to grow individually and such, and so when they are reunited, their love is fresh and as strong as ever.
In the Last Mythal trilogy, Ilsevele (sp?) and Araevin had a 20 year betrothal before they were to marry--it ended up not working out, and Ilsevele and Fflar Starbow fell in love fairly quickly and marrying.
So, elves do believe in mating for life, they just don't do it as quickly as shorter-lived races do (I've looked into this, being a hopeless romantic, LOL). My elves tend to get in relationships with other elves faster, but the story would take years otherwise.
And gods don't work the same way mortals do, so the concept of monogamy might vary. And neither Ang nor Sehanine seem to be complaining.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 01:10:13
Concerning Shar:
"Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' with no broke ......"
I can't believe I just quoted a Kenya West song... I have to go wash my brain out now with bleach and a Brillo Pad. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 01:01:25
A story I conceived once focused on a heretical church that professed that Sune and Lathander were lovers and meant to "marry" them by spreading the canon of their union through the Realms. If enough mortals believe something, the gods ultimately bow to it. The main conflict came about because in this union, Lathander was the superior, Sune the inferior . . . which the main character (a priestess of Sune) had a pretty huge problem with. Though the charismatic jerk of a Lathander priest leading the movement *was* particularly dreamy . . .
Not your average D&D story, but a fun concept.
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Garagos is in love with Shar.
Back when he was still a greater power of war she pretended to return his feelings, but since he was reduced to a mere demipower she doesn't find him useful anymore and stopped pretending.
"I don't know, Garagos. I pretended to like you when you were popular." ~ Shar, the heartless queen of ego crippling since forever
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Perhaps your right, and I take some of what I said back. It wasn't just 4e that said Angarradh was his consort, but Demihuman Deities says it, too. It also says Sehanine is sometimes called the wife of Corellon, and she is the primary aspect of Angharradh (since she was created by Hanali, Aedrie, and Sehanine), so yes, they could both be his lover, which wouldn't make it monogamous, but he's not consorting with any other deities that I know of. Sehanine and Ang seem to be okay with sharing, and since, in a way, Sehanine is literally part of Ang, it is...somewhat monogamous? LOL I don't know, it gets weird if you think about it too much, I'll admit.
We call that "monogamish," actually.
And (as discussed in Races of the Wild and most of the time you see an elf in a novel talk about the subject, particularly one of mine) elves don't see romantic relationships quite the same way humans do. Elves might get "married" but that's more for family alliances, less for fulfilment of one's emotional needs. The concept of monogamy is extremely strange to them, though sometimes celebrated as a kind of romantic ideal. Such as, if you're going to dedicate potentially thousands of years to one person in the entire world, then you must REALLY love that person. (Or you might just be crazy.)
Cheers |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 15:25:44
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Murdane was Helms lover, but she got killed by Lathanders Dawn Cataslysm.
Much later Helm then tries to hit on Tymora during the day he has to guard her for her wedding with Tyr (a set up by Sune). Helm loses his life for that in a challenge with Tyr.
Gruumsh and Lolth have worked together. I bet they could have had some good times.
Umberlee is sometimes Talos' lover; they have a rather stormy relationship.
Talos also courted Malyk (God of Wild Magic) awhile.
]Noncanon] Guroth (goblin mother goddes who died in childbirth) and Maglubiyet were lovers ]Noncanon]
Talos and Umberlee... yeah, your right, now that one would be an interesting relationship. They're clergy would be having some angry sex in the sack if mirrored on earth. The interesting thing here would be if there was some jealousy on the part of Auril... that cold hearted bitch who took Talos' portfolios. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 14:34:01
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
As far as Leira / Mask goes - I think it would be great to play her as the ULTIMATE tease. Always false to him, no matter the situation. She leads him on and shoots him down, but its never what he thinks. Would make for some good laughs I'd say.
My thoughts are somewhat similar to this. She wants to use him to get things rather than risk herself and uses "sexual manipulation" and illusion/lies for it. He's hooked (um, I would be too after fooling around with a goddess of illusions), and he uses his control of intrigues to setup situations wherein she's forced to give it up or else she either doesn't get what she wants OR loses something she already has. So, its not all one-sided and her just laughing at him, but its definitely not all love. Both of course also enjoy the "game" itself and don't take it personally. So, its not "love" per se between them, but its definitely a relationship with benefits.... a twisted, somewhat psychotic relationship.... but a relationship. |
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