| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 07:12:08
This is sort of an adjunct to my Black Granite scroll.
So what is under all that sand in the Anauroch?
Of course many ruins could be unearthed - fallen Netherese enclaves, collapsed stoneworks, abandoned farmsteads and cottages, gravestones, drinking wells, all the usual detritus of ancient human inhabitation. Maybe even older detritus of pre-human inhabitation. An unimaginable trove of archeological riches, but that's not what I'm asking about.
What is actually under all that ancient junk? What sort of geography, geology, mineral deposits, fault lines, thermal vents, magma flows, subterranean oceans, phaerimm empires, cobwebbed strands of the Underdark, anything? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 21:04:58
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Lifedrain as a composite agglomeration of numerous (and varied) lesser draining spells, rather than a monolithic "weapon of mass destruction"? That is very interesting, because it could mean neutralizing the effects varies with each locality; different "zones" and ecosystems may have been destroyed (and need restoring) through different layers of magic.
Yup, I think this is very likely. In order to restore any given patch of Anauroch, you would need some means of seeing which effects are present and possibly even in which order they're stacked... and dispel them one by one, like peeling a prismatic sphere. Each phaerimm spell may require a different means of removal. A hundred feet away, the combination and order will be different.
There's also the possibility that one or more of the phaerimm who cast those spells are still around, and that alarms are in place to alert them when someone starts systematically dismantling their Anti-Netheril Protection System. In the vicinity of any sort of landmark (Netherese ruins, sarrukh ruins, the surface-level outline of the sharnwall) the likelihood of these alarms and the severity of the response to the alarms rises dramatically.
Since Netherese ruins are the most interesting places for adventurers to visit, and the most inspiring of dreams of restoration, they are also the places that the phaerimm watch most closely... both through their laerti eyes (which, unbeknownst to the phaerimm, are also the eyes of the current master of Oreme) and through magical sensors and wizard eyes.
Going back to the original topic of this thread... this is why we have no idea what's under most of that sand.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 18:35:50
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
We know that Larloch's enclave of Jiksidur was over near Narfell and Raumathar.
here was also an entry (that got cut) in the GHotR that described Imaskari seeing "a flying city off in the distnace", a few years before they fell. I actually ran with that bit and created my own enclave and lore, but even without my homebrew adds, SOMEONE was flying around that region (Larloch? He does seem to be obsessed with Halster)
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
The people of Netheril fled from ALL THE WAY in the north to Halruaa, so I'd bet they actually had some people down that way already.
THIS - that makes the most sense to me. If something about Halruaa was attractive to them, then it makes far more sense they were already aware of it (because why did they start looking around after their fall?), and probably had a colony there already.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'm betting the Netherese were not nearly so centric to the central area of Netheril as we're led to believe. However, I bet the more politically oriented were more inclined to stay within the empire's borders.
Agreed - it would have been more like Rome. Those wishing to maintain their control (and be able to make opportunistic power-grabs) would have stayed close to Netheril's 'heart', whilst those that wanted to keep out from under close scrutiny, work against other Archwizrds, or even those that have 'made enemies' would have gone far afield.
A personally think an entire sourcebook just on Netheril, their legacy, and all the ruins (and artifacts) they've left behind would do well. Even if FR-specific, the information would still prove useful to any other setting (homebrew or purchased) that had a 'powerful magical empire' fall in the past (and thats just about every D&D setting I know).
Golarion has an extremely similar culture (The Shory) in its past, and they've never done anything with that. Why not 'beat them to the punch'? Wouldn't it be nice to see PF players adapting FR stuff to that world, instead of the other way around? (like I myself am currently doing.) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 20:03:21
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
There is another consideration. Netheril had no allies, few friends, and many enemies. I suspect that flying enclaves heading away from Netheril would be measured in the context of military threat - seen as trespassers, raiders, invaders, or as targets of the same. Archwizards would probably never properly cooperate in any kind of multi-enclave objective, but they would be quick to opportunistically advance themselves by seizing glory (and magic) from taking a rogue enclave before it could be claimed by Netheril's enemies.
They did try to expand into space (i.e. they discovered spelljamming, got smacked by illithids I think, and crawled back home).
We know that Larloch's enclave of Jiksidur was over near Narfell and Raumathar.
The people of Netheril fled from ALL THE WAY in the north to Halruaa, so I'd bet they actually had some people down that way already.
I'm betting the Netherese were not nearly so centric to the central area of Netheril as we're led to believe. However, I bet the more politically oriented were more inclined to stay within the empire's borders. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 19:36:32
Lifedrain as a composite agglomeration of numerous (and varied) lesser draining spells, rather than a monolithic "weapon of mass destruction"? That is very interesting, because it could mean neutralizing the effects varies with each locality; different "zones" and ecosystems may have been destroyed (and need restoring) through different layers of magic. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 19:18:06
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Phaerimm lifedrain may have alchemically altered the soil and water, removed something vital, added something toxic. Or it may have left fertile soil completely intact, suppressing life through some mysterious necromancy. Or it might be some kind of "living" magical parasite.
I don't mean my post as a rebuttal to this, at all. The spell writeup was one designer's take on it. I think all of the suggestions here are interesting and creative options, and there's obviously plenty of room for individual phaerimm to have created their own variants of the "basic" spells. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 19:12:08
The lifedrain spell was described in the Ruins of Myth Drannor box. 8th level spell, destroys all water in a 70' radius sphere and prevents water from existing in the area of effect. "Water cannot fall into, form within, condense within, or flow into..." Living creatures within the area of effect take 1 hp of damage each turn, from dehydration. Not affected by dispel magic or water magic; only a limited wish "or more powerful spell" can destroy it. Duration is one year per level of the caster.
There was also a 9th level improvement called draindoom. It recasts itself every 1d100 days, up to 24 times, and the duration of each "instance" is permanent until the caster's death. Which means those cast by phaerimm are likely still in effect.
The spell descriptions say nothing about altering the chemistry of the soil. That doesn't prohibit a DM from adding that effect; it just isn't specified. The phaerimm undoubtedly knew the effect of salt on soil, and may have taken advantage of that as well.
I would argue against letting the limited wish dispel the lifedrain or draindoom, because limited wish is 7th level and logically only duplicates the effects of 6th-level or lower spells. Lifedrain should only be stoppable by an 8th level reverse of the spell or a 9th level dispel. And it should take a full wish to stop the spread of a draindoom or remove the effect of the last "instance" of the spell... removing the effect of all 2d12 lifedrains should take multiple wishes or an epic spell. Imo of course. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 18:13:46
Phaerimm lifedrain may have alchemically altered the soil and water, removed something vital, added something toxic. Or it may have left fertile soil completely intact, suppressing life through some mysterious necromancy. Or it might be some kind of "living" magical parasite.
It unclear to me whether the spreading sands are the symptom of lifedrain or the mechanism by which it spreads, or a synergy of both, but it's of little consequence since Shadovar terraformers have evidently devised a magical method to reverse the effect. At least in proximity of their mythallar, maybe that's why Shade doesn't travel widely across Faerūn.
The underlying bedrock could be basically anything? I'm thinking mostly metamorphic and igneous minerals, potentially rich in gems and metals, given that the Anauroch is something of a round bowl circumscribed by mountain ranges (almost like a crater). Maps of old Netheril show rivers and basins, but I doubt there's a lot of sedimentary stone, plus I suppose any clay-like materials would be vitrified by desert conditions. I suppose there could be all sorts of dried up wadis and moraine debris and random glacier boulders (and meteorites!) buried under the sands. According to my high-school-level geology expertise, haha. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 17:51:53
Aye, but the Phaerimm developed a specialised spell to achieve a defiler-magic effect. It is probably nonweave based or enhanced by Phaerimms special 4handed magics. I wouldn't be surprized its considered Epic in 3.5 rules.
I don't know the original spell's area of effect... But my guess is it removed life and water in a 30 ft radius per casting. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 17:35:43
Most of the mining seems to have been done outside the Anauroch vicinity, like Dekanter. I don't believe Tethyamr was active during the first Nethrese Empire, and if it it was, it was still on the fringe of what we consider their 'stomping grounds'. There where a few others, like where they mined Chardlyn(sp?) from.
Also, we tend to think of these early empires as being specific to the region of their origin (like we do with Greece, or Rome), but the fact is all of them - most notably Imaskar and Calimshan (Shoon Imperium) - had MUCH larger territories then just their home-nation. I wouldn't be surprised if the Netherese considered ALL of northern Faerūn 'theirs'. Why dig-up your own backyard, when you can dig-up someone else's?
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I suspect the Drainlife spell caused water to dry in terrifying amounts and life to wither in mere seconds, all sucked towards and coalescing into the spells point of origin. It resembles a combination of the necromantic spells Vampiric Touch and Horrid Wilting.
Actually, it sounds nearly identical to how defiler-magic works in Darksun. 
Which is just one more reason I thought Athas was a perfect fit as a region in Abeir. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 17:30:05
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Re: the soil under Anauroch... I agree with Bladewind, except maybe the intact soil layer. I like the image of roads and some landmarks being hidden under the sand, but I don't think much potentially-fertile soil would have survived the lifedrains. In my head, it doesn't seem like there would be enough living soil to qualify as a layer. Scattered patches of it, maybe, separated by regions of utterly dessicated dirt. (Are you a geology/geography major, Bladewind? I see a lot of familiar language  ) That probably being the case, Bladewind is more of an expert than I am; I'm just rambling.
I'm an ecohydrologist, with a background in geography, aye.
The reason the soil will be fertile is the amount of time for weathering would have been uninhibited. Because the weathering processes release (or make mobile) minerals essential for (plant)life the soils would be relatively fertile upon exposure.
Any rainfall waters would likely collect under the sands, with a high chance of being slowed to a stop on the soils of Low Netheril. These waters would be rich if they managed to stay refreshed enough throughout the years.
The speed with which the Shade Enclave is reclaiming the Anauroch can be seen as evidence of the richness of the soils under the desert. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 17:08:46
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
This is sort of an adjunct to my Black Granite scroll.
So what is under all that sand in the Anauroch?
If you dig real deep you'll find something makes absolutely no sense. There's all these crushed orc tribes that look like mountains fell out of the sky and crushed them..... but that's ludicrous.... |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 17:02:42
Just a few errant thoughts, accompanied by too much time on my hands.
Re: why the enclaves mostly stayed in Netheril... the phaerimm were entirely unknown throughout most of the history of Netheril. Once the phaerimm began their attacks, it was only a little over a century until Karsus flipped out and turned off the lights. The end began slowly and subtly. The first inklings of magic being distorted would have been too localized to raise an alarm. It would have taken a few years for all the arcanists in a particular enclave to realize that they were all being affected (first, individuals would probably suspect curses or poisons being visited on them by rivals, or even hangovers from the frivolity of the previous night). Then they might have tried to subtly query other enclaves, and respected landlubber arcanists, to see if others were being affected without giving anything away regarding their own maladies. In the beginning, before the phaerimm spells affected all of Netheril, other arcanists would report no problems, so the affected enclave would move to a new area. Finding a place where they could cast without interference, they would "government coverup" the previous difficulties because they were seriously invested in the belief that they were omnipotent. In order to publicly ask the question "what's messing up my magic?" an arcanist has to admit that his magic is messed up, and hence that he's vulnerable. Other arcanists, perhaps not noticing their own fallibility, would sooner take advantage of the weakened rival rather than join forces to investigate anything.
For 95% of Netheril's history, there was every reason for the arcanists to think of Netheril as their little paradise carved out of the inhospitable wilderness. Once they came to a (more or less) collective understanding that there *was* a pervasive problem that was affecting all of them, it was far too late. Some (probably including Larloch, judging by the position of Jiksidur when it fell) discovered that the problem was limited to the geographic area of Netheril. Rather than publicize this knowledge, these arcanists chose to relocate, undoubtedly with two objectives: (1) continuing their own research elsewhere without interference, and (2) letting the arcanists who remained in Netheril continue to suffer the degeneration of magic there until their enclaves fell and their cities were destroyed by orcs and angry anti-magic barbarians, and then *all* were destroyed by whatever unseen menace was dampening magic across the whole nation. At some later date, after all their rivals were destroyed and the unseen menaces returned to their unknown home, the vacationing arcanists could return and quietly sift through the remains for items/knowledge of interest without becoming a target. Nationalism/patriotism/whatever, if it existed at all, was a much lower priority than personal glory.
Re: the sarrukh of Oreme... Oreme itself was *gone* by the time Netheril was founded. It doesn't even show up on the maps of Netheril as a ruin, so the arcanists didn't even know it existed, because the Netherese were not into spelunking. They barely even got into mining, and the few mines they had seem to be near the surface. Spelljamming was a short-lived fad, and they probably never investigated the Underdark even to that extent. Philock... I don't remember anything offhand about Philock, but it must have been the brainchild of one (or a very small group) of arcanists who had conducted some quiet expeditions just prior to the Fall. The sarrukh knew about Netheril, but Netheril had no clue about the sarrukh... which is easily explained as the will of the sarrukh. The sarrukh were the creators of the Nether Scrolls which formed much of the foundation of Netherese magic. The sarrukh had enough power, and enough tricks up their sleeves, to ensure that Netherese explorers would not accidentally stumble on Oreme. Their "fear of the dark" might actually be a huge part of the reason why the Netherese were utterly unable to seek out and confront the phaerimm directly. The sarrukh were probably afflicting the Netherese leaders with nightmares which caused claustrophobia. Evidently didn't work on Ioulaum, but it prevented major forays into the Underdark.
Re: the soil under Anauroch... I agree with Bladewind, except maybe the intact soil layer. I like the image of roads and some landmarks being hidden under the sand, but I don't think much potentially-fertile soil would have survived the lifedrains. In my head, it doesn't seem like there would be enough living soil to qualify as a layer. Scattered patches of it, maybe, separated by regions of utterly dessicated dirt. (Are you a geology/geography major, Bladewind? I see a lot of familiar language ) That probably being the case, Bladewind is more of an expert than I am; I'm just rambling.
"Karsus simply represented the pinnacle of all their faults." ~Markustay
I like that. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 15:05:18
I think an important part of the answer lies in the spell responcable for the desertification of Netheril into the Anauroch. The Phaerimm developed this spell around -461 DR, and it collected magic sustenance for the phaerimm while emptying magic sources in Netheril.
I suspect the Drainlife spell caused water to dry in terrifying amounts and life to wither in mere seconds, all sucked towards and coalescing into the spells point of origin. It resembles a combination of the necromantic spells Vampiric Touch and Horrid Wilting.
Normal desert sand landscapes form by a combination of strong wind (aeolian) and temporary surfacewater (fluvial) deposits. But the Anauroch initial sands (likely river beds and lakes) were freed to erosion by a freak dessication disaster, relieving vibrant parts of Netheril from near all its waters and life in mere weeks. Wind deposits would subsequently scatter the exposed gravels and sands into a more even layer around the surrounding areas of Netheril. The receding glaciers and changing weather patterns would from then on bring in even more fluvial and aeolian sediment to be distributed about Netheril mostly by transporting sands in sickle dune movements in prevailing wind directions.
I'd see the magic war of the Phaerimm and the Netherese as having cratered the landscape quite a bit. Such battlefields could have encompassed quite an area in Netheril. During such battles fell magics could have metamorphised the present sandstone soils into obsidianlike shards, gneiss or quartzite. The craters and battlefields exposed even more soils for weathering, quickly becoming new sources of dust for the newly forming Anauroch.
Later, after the Fall in -339 DR, the crashed mountaintop enclaves would have given the area an additional imput of rock to weather and spread additional sands untop of the desert. With the Phaerimm Drainlife spell still active the abondoned enclaves quickly became swallowed by the sands of the Anauroch.
So I expect the amount of sand in the Anauroch (based on at least 1500 years of magic enhanced weathering and sedimentation) is enough to make for a average sandy layer depth of at least 40 feet, enough to swallow most of the highest buildings in typical low netheril settlements in a high dune.
The bedrock beneath would be a largely intact soil layer, potentially quite fertile if water was added, nearly identical to how Low Netehril must have used it. Upon digging through the sands onto the bedrock beneath on could find traces of their lands. Well worn tracks and roads, small to large ruins, grazed soils for small to large animals, forest soils, riverbanks or -beds. If on a battlefield or crash site, the signs could be seen in the soil because of the energies unleashed transformed the soils in metamorphed stones such as gneiss, marble, quartzite and granulites. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 13:26:09
All the real smart ones left - Iouluam, Larloch, Aumvor, etc. They looked at Netheril and realized it had a cancer. Like cancer, you can fight it, but almost inevitably it will get you in the end. Since they didn't have the option of removing the cancer itself (which amounted to more then just the Phaerimm), they instead performed a self-ectomy (they removed themselves from the center of infection).
I am sure there are many more who escaped to elsewhere, other then all the Liches, Shades, Selunites, Halruaans, and Nimbrali we know about (which, when you think about it, is already quite an extensive list of survivors). And thats not even including all the 'Low Netherese' who joined barbarian tribes in the region after the fall.
No... what was left were all the ones with too much hubris, too much greed, and were too short-sighted. Karsus simply represented the pinnacle of all their faults. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 04:48:57
I have to agree with many of the theories expressed above Markustay. I think the reason they stayed was because:
1.Material gains=In normal terms this does not seem much, but when your fellow neighbour is another enclave riding archwizard who would gladly wipe you out and take everything, staying in one place, waiting to see who makes the first move.
2.Resources=They all would have had some reservations and no doubt misgivings about leaving, not to mention the damage it would have cause to all they owned not to mention those who lived below under their "protection" Leaving a valuable resource is not a good idea.
3.Pride=Probably most likely, even after the fall and subsequent return to Faerun Telamont Tanthul was still convinced that Netheril was the pinnacle of civilization.
Only the pragmatists survived because really if Ioulaum was the "demi-divine" of Netheril, why did he leave? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 01:04:30
You can often tell a lot about a people from the kind of language they use.
Consider that Netherese was the language of "Low Netheril," while Loross was the language of "High Netheril" -- the floating enclaves. This alone stands as a worthwhile example of "how far above the land" the inhabitants of the enclaves believed themselves to be. So any policy that adopts a "rape the land and take what we want and then move on" mentality is easily conceptualised by how they viewed themselves and the lands and peoples "beneath" them. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 21:33:10
Still, no actual data for what kind of rocks and stuff are found under the sands? Buried mountain ranges, underground seas, lost topography? There's a lot more in the ground than just Underdark, monsters, and the trash of passing civilizations ... I mean, what about the ground itself?
For example, ancient Netheril worked hard and prospered greatly from trade arrangements with dwarven clans. I assume these dwarves would've industriously carved into the local mountains, searching for metals and gems. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 21:25:55
So LITERALLY, Pride goeth before a fall? 
And the not-so-prideful ones - the ones that were actually worth saving - would have had the common sense and wherewithal to go elsewhere. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 21:18:10
Actually, I think it might be more of a pride issue. "This is my land. I'll not be pushed from it!"
We know they were a really proud bunch, and we know that this kind of attitude is not all that uncommon among various peoples. I don't see a need to pursue some exotic explanation when simple human nature, plus what we already know of the Netherese, offers adequate explanation. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 19:08:10
There is another consideration. Netheril had no allies, few friends, and many enemies. I suspect that flying enclaves heading away from Netheril would be measured in the context of military threat - seen as trespassers, raiders, invaders, or as targets of the same. Archwizards would probably never properly cooperate in any kind of multi-enclave objective, but they would be quick to opportunistically advance themselves by seizing glory (and magic) from taking a rogue enclave before it could be claimed by Netheril's enemies. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 18:39:20
While I do see your point, its really hard to make any RW comparisons. The Nethrese were more 'Scify' then medieval/ancient in both what they could accomplish and their society.
If someone told me my property was 'unstable' (and living on an island in 'Hurricane Ally' I HAVE heard this), and that if I stayed me, my family - everyone I know - would all die, I would take that seriously. I would try to 'hold out' as long as I could, but at some point common sense would kick-in.
Enclaves FELL, and they remained. That would be like me seeing two of my neighbor's homes swept away and me saying, "it won't happen to me". At that point, I would be a complete idiot if I did that. There is wanting to protect your property as long as possible, and then there is self preservation. The Netherese were supposed to be brilliant... I'm just not seeing it.
Here's my own thoughts/fix on the matter: There was something there they couldn't live without. Something about that one piece of territory made it invaluable to them (aside from the natural feelings of home territory). We know that some did go elsewhere, so we know that it was not only possible, but that they could live without the Anauroch (Nethril) region. This means they (the ones that fled) either found a replacement for whatever it was they had there, or decided it wasn't worth the risk.
So there's the crux of the matter - many of them thought it was worth the risk. It almost sounds like some sort of addiction (which often overrides common sense).
And now my mind is actually going someplace I don't like - Lisa Smedman's handling of the Drow. I don't think the Dark Elves needed that 'Drow Nip' (Faerzress) solution, but something along those lines might work for the Netherese - perhaps magic just 'worked better' there... it could be that simple (which would put a whole new spin on what we know about potent Netherese Magic). What if that one region somehow fell outside of the normal limitations put on magic?
The other solution I just now thought of was money (which is a type of addiction - Wealth = Power). Most Netherese devices were powered by Psuedo-Magical energies; suppose the enclaves HAD TO stay near their groundling settlements? I assume the Archwizards were all 'heavily invested' in their enclaves, which required a rather intricate support-structure. It wasn't just a matter of proximity for convenience - they actually couldn't leave without de-powering the infrastructure. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 18:14:17
When Roman generals were stationed in Rome proper, they always ensured that their legions (or at the least an overlarge and well-armed personal guard/escort) were stationed nearby. As a "political" reminder that they commanded great force and respect, and that they could not be removed from their positions lightly. Most used the presence of their legions as symbolic authority, others waged private "little-war" vendettas, a few led bloody coups.
Perhaps Netherese archwizards had a similar mentality, using their enclaves as a sort of threat-display, always half-consciously recognizing that a flying enclave full of soldiers and magic could become a serious military obstacle. Each would fiercely claim some personal territory within the Netheril homeland, and would be unwilling to give it up. Netheril also lacked any unified "central" state or government which could initiate (fund) imperialistic efforts. In the mindset of an arcanist, why waste resources colonizing foreign lands when Netheril itself was the seat of high civilization?
Agreed, it's not entirely realistic. But neither is much else in Slade's version of Netheril. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 17:55:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
My thought is that the flying enclaves were basically anchored by logistics. Large onboard populations would require large quantities of food and water and fuel and consumables. Arcanists would need an endless supply of exotic components. Craftsmen would need an equally endless supply of materials to supply custom masterworks to the arcanists. Although teleport was available, it was not accessible to everybody and was probably impractical for daily hauling of food, clothing, and garbage.
I think it's sort a large scale equivalent of people with RVs today. They might theoretically be able to range across half the world, but in practice they tend to be found in communal clusters and are almost never found too far away from gas stations and utilities. Floating away from "home" simply would hinder access to all the little luxuries (and people) the archwizards needed to focus their explorations into All Things Magical, and would make their arrogant/competitive "keeping up with the Joneses" displays less effective.
While that would be a factor, there is also the fact that the arcanists could have gathered whatever they wanted, from whereever they wanted. And when the land started failing, it would have made sense to pull up stakes and go somewhere where the land was still green and vibrant. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 16:32:17
My thought is that the flying enclaves were basically anchored by logistics. Large onboard populations would require large quantities of food and water and fuel and consumables. Arcanists would need an endless supply of exotic components. Craftsmen would need an equally endless supply of materials to supply custom masterworks to the arcanists. Although teleport was available, it was not accessible to everybody and was probably impractical for daily hauling of food, clothing, and garbage.
I think it's sort a large scale equivalent of people with RVs today. They might theoretically be able to range across half the world, but in practice they tend to be found in communal clusters and are almost never found too far away from gas stations and utilities. Floating away from "home" simply would hinder access to all the little luxuries (and people) the archwizards needed to focus their explorations into All Things Magical, and would make their arrogant/competitive "keeping up with the Joneses" displays less effective. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 15:56:35
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
For instance, they all lived in flying, MOBILE Enclaves... and yet they stayed right above Anauroch, knowing full-well magic was being depleted and Enclaves were falling. They did so right up until the end. Forget stupidity... even animals are smart enough to get the hell away from danger. Those guys were barely sentient. Netheril makes no sense to me, and never has.
That's bugged me for a while, too. There was nothing to prevent them from scattering to the four winds at any time... And we know of at least a few enclaves that did leave that general vicinity -- there are two that fell into the Sea of Fallen Stars, and rumor has it that there is one in Firedrake Bay in Tethyr. I've been fiddling with the idea of one being parked over another continent when the Fall happened, and a recent discussion gave me the idea of a spelljamming enclave (an idea contested by a concealed titled individual).
Unless it was for social or sentimental reasons, there is no reason for the airborne Netherese to have remained tethered to that one piece of real estate. Similarly, I don't see why Shade felt obligated to stay there and try to change the local conditions, rather than parking over a more convenient spot. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 15:11:01
agreed 100%
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 13:52:09
Most of the 'high tech' part of Netheril was airborn, and since most of the enclaves were all but obliterated in the fall, that only leaves the fairly low-tech rural parts of Nethril to be found.
I realize there were a couple of major 'groundling' settlements, but most of the land below was dedicated to providing resources for the enclaves.
The one thing that has always been a complete disconnect for me is why the Netherese were completely oblivious to what was right under their feet. The Sarrukh, and the Phaerimm, and god knows what else (a beholder CITY?!) While on the one hand the lore says they were all brilliant Arcanists, on the other hand just about everything concerning them points to complete stupidity (except for Iouluam... he was Da Bomb).
For instance, they all lived in flying, MOBILE Enclaves... and yet they stayed right above Anauroch, knowing full-well magic was being depleted and Enclaves were falling. They did so right up until the end. Forget stupidity... even animals are smart enough to get the hell away from danger. Those guys were barely sentient. Netheril makes no sense to me, and never has.
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| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 06:08:47
I've envisioned Underdark labyrinths surrounding heavily warded spellcasting chambers and experiment chambers; the whole construction physically sealed off by an Arcanist and his apprentices, so that he or she could get down to some serious experimentation without rivals up above seeing what's going on.
On the ground (but under the sand) I can imagine acres of land that seems foreign--and it is in fact foreign--because some Arcanist decided to shift a quarter-mile cube of land into an elemental plane and then extract it after a tenday or a month, just to see how it changed. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 05:01:33
If you dig deep enough you will find Karsus's diary or perhaps Elminster black book! |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 16:22:45
and obviously the Anauroch supplement written by Ed himself
Cheers
Damian |
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