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The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte

46 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  20:21:27  Show Profile  Visit The Grumpy Celt's Homepage Send The Grumpy Celt a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
The Forgotten Realms are heading for a proverbial rebooting in the mechanical form of 4E and the story form of Mystra dying and so forth and so on.

Some like the idea while others are skeptical on the issue.

Those who are enthusiastic on the subject say the setting needs this, most often saying something to the effect of a need to trim the fat or to rid the setting of things it does not need. This may be true, but the idea of losing things the setting does not need is vague.

What are some things you think the setting needs to lose?

An often cited example is the Chosen – high powder heroes who (A) do all the work, leaving the work and/or (B) use and abuse the PCs.

What else do you think needs to go and why? Please be specific.

"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna

KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  21:05:38  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to be flippant, but I think the setting needs to loose game designers and executives that don't take the time to get a "feel" for the world and feel obligated to bolt on whatever seems cool at the moment instead of figuring out what drew people to the setting in the first place.

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darkhuntress
Acolyte

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  21:12:34  Show Profile  Visit darkhuntress's Homepage Send darkhuntress a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt

The Forgotten Realms are heading for a proverbial rebooting in the mechanical form of 4E and the story form of Mystra dying and so forth and so on.

Some like the idea while others are skeptical on the issue.

Those who are enthusiastic on the subject say the setting needs this, most often saying something to the effect of a need to trim the fat or to rid the setting of things it does not need. This may be true, but the idea of losing things the setting does not need is vague.

What are some things you think the setting needs to lose?

An often cited example is the Chosen – high powder heroes who (A) do all the work, leaving the work and/or (B) use and abuse the PCs.

What else do you think needs to go and why? Please be specific.



Magic shops. Probably the worst idea in a long series of bad ideas foisted upon the Realms in the d20 era. Yes, the Realms as we know and love them are a high magic setting, but there's a line that was crossed with the whole MagicMart thing. As someone said a while back on one of the mailing lists, those of us who grew up on computer games are used to the notion of waltzing into a store and buying a holy avenger +10 for 1 million gp because we can and unfortunately I think what I like to call Neverwinter Nights/WoW mentality has seeped into a lot of the design decisions.

Monty Haul is the new black.

"Do not mistake our kindness for gullibility, nor our hesitance to draw blades for cowardice. Contrary to what the spider kissers would have you believe, Dark Ladies are not addle-brained, pacifist weaklings. We'd have all died a long time ago if that were the case." --Lady Kariza de'Camyras, High Priestess of the Temple of the Silver Crescent
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Drakul
Senior Scribe

USA
367 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  22:14:12  Show Profile Send Drakul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Forgotten Realms needs to lose all the Drow Deities, except for Vhaeraun. That is just my 2 cents. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber
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darkhuntress
Acolyte

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  22:26:26  Show Profile  Visit darkhuntress's Homepage Send darkhuntress a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul

Forgotten Realms needs to lose all the Drow Deities, except for Vhaeraun. That is just my 2 cents. LOL



I'd have been satisfied if they'd just cut Kiaransalee and Cthulhu, er Ghaunadaur who were both foreign interlopers anyway and left the stalemate between Lolth (with Selvetarm as pet), Vhaeraun and Eilistraee. Lolth vs. Eilistraee is not interesting at all, it's too black vs. white. Without Vhaeraun in there being a sneaky bastard throwing a wrench in the works, it's just not interesting.

"Do not mistake our kindness for gullibility, nor our hesitance to draw blades for cowardice. Contrary to what the spider kissers would have you believe, Dark Ladies are not addle-brained, pacifist weaklings. We'd have all died a long time ago if that were the case." --Lady Kariza de'Camyras, High Priestess of the Temple of the Silver Crescent
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  23:44:37  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul

Forgotten Realms needs to lose all the Drow Deities, except for Vhaeraun. That is just my 2 cents. LOL



Why would we want another male-centric female bashing do-no-good who does nothing else but harrassing his mum and her kin? Because some gamers or designers cannot stand domineering ladies?

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe

Greece
273 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  00:05:58  Show Profile Send Marquant Volker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Powerplayers (the bad ones). People who when you ask them about their characters the first thing they describe is their +5 Flaming Burst Vorpal Adamandine greatsword and their +5 Dragon scale full plate (from Great Wyrm of course).
People who dont respect any NPC the setting has to offer either because they are lower level than they are "Pfff what can Mirt do? He cant survive a single critical of mine" or very high
"I hate Elminister he's just lame"
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Dalmar Amad
Seeker

Germany
56 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  00:11:25  Show Profile  Visit Dalmar Amad's Homepage Send Dalmar Amad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met.

I truly love(d) the realms in their entirety. True, there may have been some cults, nations or cities I didn't like very much, but the realms' cultural variety, its people and religions really made me feel at home.

Then there came edition 3 and 3.5 with another FRCS and with it countless half-elementals, half-this and half-thats. I was happy that I still had enough 2e material to keep playing for years.

With just a glimpse of what is to come, I suddenly feel a great loss(and fear).
I wonder how much will be left of the realmsian-feeling when edition 4 and the new FRCS gets published.

The setting should loose some of the stuff that was added with 3e and 3.5.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  00:18:51  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt


An often cited example is the Chosen – high powder heroes who (A) do all the work, leaving the work and/or (B) use and abuse the PCs.




I think a lot of complaints about the Chosen being this or that to the detriment of PCs are groundless. Isn't the DM supposed to be in control? If you don't want certain characters involved, you don't need to use them. Besides, I can't speak for everyone, but as a Realms-lover I get a thrill when my characters get to meet famous and/or powerful NPCs. It's part of the joy of the setting.

OK, there was my rant.

I don't lay in bed at night thinking about what the FR setting "needs to lose". I've mentioned elsewhere that I mentally delete the elements of canon that I dislike, but I don't expect WotC to do that for me. Also, I'm a "skeptic" of the 4E FR setting, not one of those who say that the upcoming changes will somehow scour the setting of everything people dislike about it.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Julian Grimm
Seeker

86 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  03:59:55  Show Profile Send Julian Grimm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everything but what was in the Greybox and the first run of supplements. ;)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  04:18:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think we can stand to lose all the non-Mystra Chosen. And I'd like to see that my preferred theory about Bane's return is correct -- that he hasn't returned; it's really Xvim, capitalizing on Daddy's name.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  04:28:45  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think we can stand to lose all the non-Mystra Chosen.



I agree with that. Of course, the non-Mystran Chosen are one of the elements of the canon setting that I've mentally deleted.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  04:31:34  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that is one of the things that people point to when they jump onto the "power creep" band wagon complaining about the Realms (not that I'm advocating changing things for critics that don't like the setting to begin with). The idea of Chosen had indeed gotten very convoluted, and if a god has one particular "champion," they don't need to be called a "Chosen" as it does just lead to "one upmanship" on the deific front.
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  04:31:58  Show Profile  Visit Darkmeer's Homepage Send Darkmeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well Met All,

I, honestly and deeply, think the Realms needs to lose little. In reality, I think it should have great gains. What I believe should happen to the Realms is expansion on actual material, not destruction of 20+ years of history (I'm counting Ed's time before it was published ).

I am going to shut up now. I could go on and on, but I really, honestly, deeply feel that the only two changes that were "necessary" switching to 4e are the expansion of the Shade "Empire" (I loves me some shades), and the Orc Kingdom in the Silver Marches (minus the CCC... Grr ). I honestly think that Mr. S. didn't intend for the reference, and I'm sad for him as a writer because of it.

/d

"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME."
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  04:40:38  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
and the Orc Kingdom in the Silver Marches




I actually kind of like the stable kingdom idea, but I really would have rather had a more sinister, less civilized, but still stable kingdom that would keep the neighbors guessing.
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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  04:42:48  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by darkhuntress
Magic shops. Probably the worst idea in a long series of bad ideas foisted upon the Realms in the d20 era. Yes, the Realms as we know and love them are a high magic setting, but there's a line that was crossed with the whole MagicMart thing. As someone said a while back on one of the mailing lists, those of us who grew up on computer games are used to the notion of waltzing into a store and buying a holy avenger +10 for 1 million gp because we can and unfortunately I think what I like to call Neverwinter Nights/WoW mentality has seeped into a lot of the design decisions.


Precisely. Magic Marts is a good way to put it, and not just magic marts, but magic item manufacture taken to a "well, if I can't find it, I'll just make one" style. For me, of all the things that destroys the wonder and magic of a campaign world, it's the liberal (and dare I say) chronic magic item creation that kills the mysticism, romance, and whole purpose of adveturing in a game.

I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  05:51:21  Show Profile  Visit Darkmeer's Homepage Send Darkmeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thayan magic shops are double edged swords, and most of my characters don't really trust Red Wizards to save their own souls. Most other towns don't have a wizard to speak of, and as such, don't have a plethora of magic crap lying around. Which leads to the next point:

A thought about the magic shops... How else do you expect the PC's to spend money? Building keeps & such is only fun for so long since the hireling & followers rules aren't exactly clear on what happens.

On some level, 3.5 solved that issue for me, both as a player and a DM. I don't think that every spellcaster will charge "base rate" for crafting a magic item for a PC. Also, one thing to note, most spellcasters don't want their name on anything greater than +1. SO, finding it in a horde or other means (crafting it themselves) becomes much more viable, and increases the sense of wonder when done well.

Does this work for everyone? Not in the least. I do think, however, that there are way too many duplicate items on villains in published adventures, and I remove many of them in favor of just gold, scrolls that will be more useful or other magics. I usually ask my PC's for a shopping list, and include something like what they want (sometimes lesser, sometimes greater, sometimes equal to what they want, sometimes nothing, and sometimes in a different item "slot"). It helps me as a DM, and it encourages the players that I am trying to make the game fun for them as well as myself (I love watching the players win).

/d

"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME."
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Drakul
Senior Scribe

USA
367 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  08:46:21  Show Profile Send Drakul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan

quote:
Originally posted by Drakul

Forgotten Realms needs to lose all the Drow Deities, except for Vhaeraun. That is just my 2 cents. LOL



Why would we want another male-centric female bashing do-no-good who does nothing else but harrassing his mum and her kin? Because some gamers or designers cannot stand domineering ladies?



Yet, Vhaeraun has females that also follow him. Interesting concept, huh?? Look at Shakti Hunzrin, she follows Lloth AND Vhaeraun. Vhaeraun does not exclude females from his Dogma.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber

Edited by - Drakul on 22 Sep 2007 13:27:04
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe

Australia
921 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  09:34:13  Show Profile  Visit Lady Kazandra's Homepage Send Lady Kazandra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I think we can stand to lose all the non-Mystra Chosen.
I whole-heartedly agree. Mystra's Chosen are the only Chosen ever to feature in the Sage's FR campaigns. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:
And I'd like to see that my preferred theory about Bane's return is correct -- that he hasn't returned; it's really Xvim, capitalizing on Daddy's name.
I don't believe I'm familiar with your theory Wooly. Can you elaborate?

"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett

Edited by - Lady Kazandra on 22 Sep 2007 09:35:02
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe

Norway
476 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  10:05:00  Show Profile  Visit Snotlord's Homepage Send Snotlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I pretty much like the realms as it is, and would prefer a gradual change rather than sudden changes. That said...

FR would benefit from loosing Ao and everything Spelljammer.

I think ToT 1.0 is actually kind of cool when I ignore everything involving Ao and the events in Shadowdale (out-of-character behaviour).
As for Spelljammer I think planetravelling ships are cool, while spacetravelling ships really rubs me the wrong way. It must go!

As for the god-issues I liked that Cyric slew Mystra, as it somehow fits the story up to now. As for the dwarf-god genocide I think it would be more elegant to quietly demote the extra gods to demigod status and treat then as such. "Lesser god", "demi-god" and so on are only labels with little importance anyway.


Edited by - Snotlord on 22 Sep 2007 16:14:32
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  12:27:16  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, most of the changes during 3ed. (Shade, thayan shops, map changes, other gods chosen etc) in addition to the other continents. A major reworking of Kara-Tur and Maztica by Ed. I know many people like these, but as things are the areas are not used anyway. Ao could go also. I could go on for ever, but as none of this is going to happen anyway.

To put it simply, I like the Realms as they were.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  14:12:50  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And I'd like to see that my preferred theory about Bane's return is correct -- that he hasn't returned; it's really Xvim, capitalizing on Daddy's name.
I don't believe I'm familiar with your theory Wooly. Can you elaborate?




Basically, I see three possibilities for Bane's return. The first two are based on Xvim's actions with gathering the remaining bits of Bane's power, which, I believe, eventually reached critical mass and caused Bane to return.

Theory 1) "At last, I have returned!" This theory is that Bane created Xvim as a shell to house his essence until such time as he could come back. The biggest point supporting this theory is Xvim's mysterious imprisonment under Zhentil Keep, during the ToT -- gotta have your offsite storage in a secure place. The biggest point against this theory is that it means Bane admitted the possibility of his own demise. Nothing I've seen about Bane suggests that the ultimate tyrant would believe it possible to be killed. I admit this theory is feasible, but I don't support it.

Theory 2) "Holy crap, I'm back!" This theory is that Bane's return was a surprise to all, including himself. Since Xvim was the son of Bane, when he had gathered enough of his father's essence, it achieved critical mass and subsumed him. The reborn Bane is a mix of both Xvim and Bane, with Bane dominant. Supporting this theory is the number of changes Bane has had since his return, including now favoring Xvim's old colors, using some of the same type of critters that Xvim favored, and the fact that Bane did not resume using his old colors or holy symbol. I find this to be the most likely theory.

Theory 3) "Hey, look at me, I'm Bane! Really, I am!" This theory, my newest, my favorite, and the most fun one, is that Bane hasn't really returned. The vision and "return" were both con jobs on Xvim's part. By assuming Bane's name and identity, Xvim capitalizes on the reputation and power of his late father. He gets some of Bane's followers to return, he keeps his own, and he gets to enjoy all the benefits Daddy had. Win-win for Junior. This theory is also supported by the same factors that support theory 2 -- the difference is that Xvim made the changes to bridge the gap between himself and his father, or that maybe Xvim really is a gestalt of Bane and Xvim, but in the scenario, Xvim is dominant. While this theory is my favorite, beyond the blending of Xvim's and Bane's representations, there is nothing that truly supports Bane not being Bane. Indications, yes, but those also reflect theory 2 (and do so more convincingly).

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  14:21:40  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord

FR would benefit from loosing Ao and everything Spelljammer. (snip)

As for Spelljammer I think planetravelling ships are cool, while spacetravelling ships really rubs me the wrong way. It must go!


I have no problem with Ao, myself. But the Spelljammer setting was my first love with TSR. I love just about everything about the idea.

However, other than some bits of lore, there's never been all that much Spelljammer influence in the Realms. Some of it, though, is kinda integral: the Mulhorandi and Untheric deities arrived in the Realms via spelljammer, there was a strong spelljamming presence in the Netherese enclave of Yeoman's Loft, and the elven spelljammer's that came to Evermeet's defense centuries ago.

I think 3E's downplaying of Spelljammer wasn't as much the admission that the setting was flawed, but a desire to minimize references to a no-longer active setting.

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Julian Grimm
Seeker

86 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  16:09:58  Show Profile Send Julian Grimm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
and the Orc Kingdom in the Silver Marches




I actually kind of like the stable kingdom idea, but I really would have rather had a more sinister, less civilized, but still stable kingdom that would keep the neighbors guessing.



I'm all for that. The new kingdom was a nice surprise and I am happy it sticks around but I agree that it must be sinister in nature and the whole 'orcs are people too' mentality must be dropped.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  17:39:39  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

However, other than some bits of lore, there's never been all that much Spelljammer influence in the Realms. Some of it, though, is kinda integral: the Mulhorandi and Untheric deities arrived in the Realms via spelljammer, there was a strong spelljamming presence in the Netherese enclave of Yeoman's Loft, and the elven spelljammer's that came to Evermeet's defense centuries ago.
So far as we know, the EIN stops on Evermeet. And during the time of Cormanthyr, the Coronal's Court received EIN visitors on occasion.

Knowledge about spelljamming and how to create the uniquely elven spelljamming vessels [though not the helms themselves] was alive and well during the height of Cormanthyr's power -- as noted in Cormanthyr.

The Shou space program has waxed and waned over the years, though the Empire does still have considerable presence in both Wildspace and throughout the other Crystal Spheres. And Kara-Tur itself contains most of the known spelljamming ports on Toril.

And if you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll see Eric suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.

Evermeet, Calimport, and Nimbral also receive their share of regular spelljamming traffic from beyond Realmspace -- as noted in Dale 'Slade' Henson's Realmspace accessory.

And, since WotC have yet to declare otherwise, the other planets and Selūne that have been said to have civilizations (from the Realmspace sourcebook) largely still, likely, exist in 3e FR as well.

As well, and again since we haven't learnt otherwise, we can still assume that the stars in Realmspace are actually portals to the Plane of Radiance, so says the Realmspace sourcebook.

There was also the tidbit in The Shining South tome that suggests the Loxo arrived in Faerūn by spelljammer-type ships.

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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe

Germany
657 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  18:02:06  Show Profile  Visit Ayunken-vanzan's Homepage Send Ayunken-vanzan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage



And, since WotC have yet to declare otherwise, the other planets and Selūne that have been said to have civilizations (from the Realmspace sourcebook) largely still, likely, exist in 3e FR as well.


There is also a reference in the FRCS that supports the notion of civilisation(s) on Selūne or its tears, speaking of pirates in flying ships coming down from the Tears to raid and plunder. Of course, many think this to be childrens' tales, but who knows?

"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail

"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  19:00:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

However, other than some bits of lore, there's never been all that much Spelljammer influence in the Realms. Some of it, though, is kinda integral: the Mulhorandi and Untheric deities arrived in the Realms via spelljammer, there was a strong spelljamming presence in the Netherese enclave of Yeoman's Loft, and the elven spelljammer's that came to Evermeet's defense centuries ago.
So far as we know, the EIN stops on Evermeet. And during the time of Cormanthyr, the Coronal's Court received EIN visitors on occasion.

Knowledge about spelljamming and how to create the uniquely elven spelljamming vessels [though not the helms themselves] was alive and well during the height of Cormanthyr's power -- as noted in Cormanthyr.

The Shou space program has waxed and waned over the years, though the Empire does still have considerable presence in both Wildspace and throughout the other Crystal Spheres. And Kara-Tur itself contains most of the known spelljamming ports on Toril.

And if you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll see Eric suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.

Evermeet, Calimport, and Nimbral also receive their share of regular spelljamming traffic from beyond Realmspace -- as noted in Dale 'Slade' Henson's Realmspace accessory.

And, since WotC have yet to declare otherwise, the other planets and Selūne that have been said to have civilizations (from the Realmspace sourcebook) largely still, likely, exist in 3e FR as well.

As well, and again since we haven't learnt otherwise, we can still assume that the stars in Realmspace are actually portals to the Plane of Radiance, so says the Realmspace sourcebook.

There was also the tidbit in The Shining South tome that suggests the Loxo arrived in Faerūn by spelljammer-type ships.




Not to mention that Wa has a space presence, the Red Wizards have ventured into space, and some novels and short stories have involving spelljammers and spelljamming -- including Finder's Bane, where a spelljammer was used to fly to the Anauroch and enter a portal to the Outlands, and Blackstaff, where a tower was used as a spelljammer, and at least one character had a spelljamming past. Steven, too, has said that part of Khelben's past included going around, destroying wrecked spelljammers.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  19:33:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And lets not forget the enigmatic Skyship Glen located in the Forest of Mir.

Those Neogi don't just appear out of nowhere, ya' know.

On Topic:
Personaly, I can't think of anything they should leave out of FR, but I wouldn't mind seeing Chosen going back to Mystra alone.

However, given the current state of things, I don't see THAT happening anytime soon.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Sep 2007 19:35:40
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe

Norway
476 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  19:41:20  Show Profile  Visit Snotlord's Homepage Send Snotlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
GAH! Spelljammers everywhere!

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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  21:28:58  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Only Mystra have Chosen, agreed.

But I want to continue to see some of the others Divine Champions, in the new books, specially Shintala Deepcrest, and Amlaruil.

Now, one thing that the Realms could lose, for me, is that bothering focus on drow!

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  22:53:29  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
How else do you expect the PC's to spend money?


A few ideas: for the casting of spells out of their league, bribes, taxes, a ship if desired, hiring henchmen, equipment repair and replacement (something few people enforce), pets, wagons, horses, deliberate decoys or distractions, and character family just to name a few.

I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana
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