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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 16:43:48
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Read it and weep -
http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Products/default.aspx?doc=959867200
I suppose I should be happy... we finally got the Orc Kingdom I always wanted. 
GOOD Drow and Orcs fighting from evil Dwarf and Elf oppresssion... I thought I'd never seee the day.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2007 16:57:24
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 19:43:11
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| I actually find it interesting. Will certainly look for The Orc King when it comes out. But, like I said before, if it turns out the new Realms is largely a creation of Wizards, and not Ed, then this is where I go looking for something else to have fun with. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 19:55:14
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So far Ed has replied 4th FR is still in House design only.
A latter post said he was under NDA concerning 4th FR, however that could be related to him being advised of changes (perhaps asking his reactions as well). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 19:58:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Read it and weep -
<snip>
GOOD Drow and Orcs fighting from evil Dwarf and Elf oppresssion... I thought I'd never seee the day.
Well Eilistraee followers always fought Evil no matter the race it resided in. Though it appears they have been mostly (if not filly) killed over the 100 years.
I am not happy at all. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 20:06:09
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It might not be a bad idea, for us at the 'Keep, and other fansites as well, to begin developing an 'alternate reality' scenario.
Break the known Realms off just before the Spellplague, or perhaps have a different happy ending to it, and continue on in 3e. There has to be a point where the world's heroes (Chosen, etc) ban together to try and stop it, but fail. That could be our point of divergence.
Then the WoD/Eberron/WoT abomination can continue rolling on into 4e without us.
Just a thought. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2007 20:07:33 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 20:25:29
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| Ed being just "advised of changes" or acting as a distant consultant would simply not be good enough for me (not speaking for anyone else.) I mean, these are the same guys who gave us a boatload of less than stellar RSEs. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:00:01
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Lets face it, this is how Wizards of the Coast can hit the reset button so a younger generation of less caring, less knowledgeable, and down right lower paid game designers can work on the Realms without having to deal with continuity.
Eberron is far from the blockbuster they hoped it'd be so they're recking the Realms to make their lives easier because people will still buy the stuff even if it sucks. It's a sad day. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:15:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Lets face it, this is how Wizards of the Coast can hit the reset button so a younger generation of less caring, less knowledgeable, and down right lower paid game designers can work on the Realms without having to deal with continuity.
Eberron is far from the blockbuster they hoped it'd be so they're recking the Realms to make their lives easier because people will still buy the stuff even if it sucks. It's a sad day.
I hope you are wrong......
but the way that cahpter reads you may be overly optimistic :(
If the realms is treated that way, Wizards will not get any of my $.
I will stay in the keep and talk about the good old days for free!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:17:04
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The idea of an orc kingdom is pleasing. It is only natural and just a question of time before civilization takes roots into orc society. Besides, if Eilistraee is the antithesis of Lolth, why wouldn't it be possible for an antithesis to Gruumsh to appear?
About dwarf and elf oppression it would actually be expected, considering the first ones are hard-headed and the latter have such long memories. This is also a pleasant surprise for me, for it will certainly bring shades of grey into the remaining society of the Realms, as it is being discussed in another thread.
However, I still don't like the idea of the spellplague causing such widespread and deep havoc in the Realms.
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Edited by - Thauglor on 08 Sep 2007 21:22:27 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:23:55
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Funny you should mention the success about Eberron - the person who was second runner-up IIRC in that WotC contest to pick the new setting created the Blood Throne Campaign World, which he continued to move forward and publish in D20. I haven't picked it up myself, but it is generating quite a buzz on the net.
And guess what? It is a campaign based on a world that has recently undergone a MAJOR catastrophe (a war, I think) and the survivors must rebuild civilization (not unlike WoD).
I wonder if WotC is kicking itself for not going with that guy's world, and is now trying to turn FR into an imitation of it?
Drizzt sounds like he is directly quoting the "Points of Light" speech from Gencon in this part -
“Gone!” Drizzt shouted. “Gone, and gone with them the hopes of a tamed and gentle world. I have watched once safe trails revert to wilderness, and have walked a dozen-dozen communities that you will never know. They are gone now, lost to the Spellplague or worse! Where are the benevolent gods? Where is the refuge from the tumult of a world gone mad? Where are the candles to chase away the darkness?”
This does not bode well, me thinks. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2007 21:25:22 |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:25:38
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"His perspective and memories of that time a hundred years gone, before the
rise of the Empire of Netheril, the coming of the aboleths, and the discordant
and disastrous joining of two worlds, brought to Drizzt thoughts of another
predicament so much like the one playing out before him."
Interesting, I wonder what the whole "joining of two worlds" stuff means? |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
Edited by - sparhawk42 on 08 Sep 2007 21:26:57 |
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:35:02
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Well, it's not as if there hasn't been diverging groups of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. before. The unsettling idea I see behind the CCC is the cause of it. In a land ravaged by the spellplague, the least of their troubles should be the orc kingdom. After all, it sounds, by that first chapter, that union was the reason the region was spared the worst of the spellplague. It would be natural that an enemy in common would unite the survivors, orcs included. It happens all the time. The CCC's actions would probably be the cause of their own doom. But who knows what absurds WotC will pack along with the edible parts of the 4Ed setting.
The question of the two worlds also bothers me. |
Edited by - Thauglor on 08 Sep 2007 21:37:14 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:44:53
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| It almost feels like the Chaos War from DragonLance. I stand by my statement that I will not buy any 4e FR gaming stuff, and novels only for "entertainment" same as the StarWars prequels are just that, entertainment and not what happened in MY SW universe. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 21:45:51
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Something smells a little fishy to me with these opening and closing passages. It just doesn't seem to make sense to lock in the fate of the realms this soon, for this long.
It would make anything that heroes in other novels and in adventure paths seem pointless since things are going to end up this way. Something tells me that this time skip might be a red herring, rather then something written in stone.
Unless they hope to skip time for a hundred years, which would be the only way it might work. Then it might make a little sense as a hint of fate. But the previous time skips has been of a limited time period of about a decade.
Perhaps this is part of a teaser created by Mr. Salvatore and those at Wizards to cause confusion and speculation.
I don't know, but it just doesn't seem right to me. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 23:07:42
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Well, damn. I had hoped that they wouldn't be jumping the timeline forward like that... I had hoped that the references to the future were more speculative or undescribed... But after reading this, I have no choice but to assume they are moving the setting forward 100 years.
Of course, it's always possible Drizzt got caught in some sort of time-warp, and this future Drizzt will jump back to try to prevent what he saw... But WotC has messed things up too many times for me to think they'd even give us that much. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 23:17:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It might not be a bad idea, for us at the 'Keep, and other fansites as well, to begin developing an 'alternate reality' scenario.
Break the known Realms off just before the Spellplague, or perhaps have a different happy ending to it, and continue on in 3e. There has to be a point where the world's heroes (Chosen, etc) ban together to try and stop it, but fail. That could be our point of divergence.
Then the WoD/Eberron/WoT abomination can continue rolling on into 4e without us.
Just a thought.
Spoilers for Expedition to Undermountain:
From what it sounds like, had Halaster not died, he may have figured out how to stop it. Switch around the Undermountain adventure to where you actually save Halaster at the end of it, and then he proceeds to use the PCs as agents to gather what he needs.
Heck, it might be interesting to find out that what is needed must be gathered from several ancient magical societies, so the PCs have to gather some information from the elves, the Netherese (Halruaans might know some of it, but the Shadovar or the Selunarrans might be needed), and go from there.
Alternatively, when they reach the end of the Undermountain adventure, they could find something left behind from Halaster that explains what needs to be done, which could open the door to gathering some Imaskari information as well. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 00:00:05
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| Interesting. I will continue to be hopeful that the changes will be good. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 01:22:57
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My main problem is that this "Orc Kingdom" is being crammed down our throats as an obvious next step for Orcs. How in the Abyss can a "race" of monsters go from something akin to neanderthal man to man in the 15-16 century.
100 years is in no way feasable for that kind of civilazation to develop. They do not build structures, quarry stone, mine, do not cultivate crops or even herd animals. They have nothing to trade for these thing it takes to build an empire. From most reading I have done the orcs have not changed since the founding of Toril. It seems like a bit of realmsian political correctness that we are being expected to buy hook line and sinker.
What's next a kingdom of Kobolds rising in Ched-Nassad forcing the drow to an uneasy alliance?
I may be wrong, but I just do not see this being true to what orcs are and have been.
I hope this isnt the triology that forces me away from Drizzit, but time will tell. I just know that I will not read books about how he sheperds an Orc kingdom from birth to a new kingdom know Realms wide. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 02:13:01
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So, it feels like 2000 again.quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Lets face it, this is how Wizards of the Coast can hit the reset button so a younger generation of less caring, less knowledgeable, and down right lower paid game designers can work on the Realms without having to deal with continuity.
Before the release of the 3E FRCS, Jim Butler, then brand manager of D&D worlds, asked the Forgotten Realms Mailing List whether they'd prefer full continuity, or 'sphere' continuity in which sources only have to be consistent with the core setting book. See this post, and this one too.
(Here, Jim reports the results of a REALMS-L survey asking 'Should there be a Realms-Shattering Event for the 3rd Edition of FR?'.)quote:
Eberron is far from the blockbuster they hoped it'd be so they're recking the Realms to make their lives easier because people will still buy the stuff even if it sucks.
There's the gamble. I think Rich Baker et al. can come up with a radically changed Realms which will be a good setting in its own right. But it will have to be truly exceptional even to rival the existing Realms, forged through 40 years (uncelebrated by Wizards) of love.
And it feels like 1990, the year before David Cook (in his words) 'blew up the world' in the Greyhawk Wars, dividing the Greyhawk fan base to this day despite efforts, mainly Erik Mona's, to heal the split.
It has been thought by some that people buy RPG books for the brand -- D&D or Forgotten Realms -- more than for the author or the content. We may find out. |
Edited by - Faraer on 09 Sep 2007 02:23:49 |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 02:19:35
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| I still believe that the Orc King Prelude is set in the far future, but the actual story will take place in the mid 1370s. It is no different to the end of The Last Mythal, which jumped ahead a few years, except it is a longer stretch of time. It is clear from the prelude that the other Companions are long dead. When you are R.A Salvatore, selling huge numbers of books, making the NY Times bestseller list etc, you do not suddenly kill off your cast except one, jump 100 years, and start from scratch. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 02:40:43
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You could very well be right.
However, even if the timeline only jumps ahead the decade we are sure of, RAS has blatantly revealed information concerning what direction the Realms will be taking.
In ten years we will have to deal with the beginning of the Spellplague, in a hundred we deal with the results - but either way, certain events are now set in stone.
Red Walker - sorry dude, but you are just plain WRONG. I could list about two dozen sources where Orcs had major civilizations/kingdoms of their own. Most still mine, farm, build communities, etc...
Just one quick example - read the history entry for 'The Vast' in the FRCS. Orcs may have had kingdoms even before men, so don't be putting them down so much. In fact, just by reading that spoiler from the Orc King we can see how it was the humans and other demi-human races that kept the Orcs down.
No one TRIED to get along with the Orcs - they just killed them because they were ugly monsters. In Prince of Lies, Vraak (a hero of the Tuigan War, mind you) tells the lead character "They treat us like monsters, so we BE monsters".
So tell me, who are the true monsters?
There was even a story about an abused goblin that Drizzt took pity on, becuase it's human 'master' beat it everyday. Once again I ask you, who are the real monsters?
Sorry to go off on a tangent like this, but a stable Orc Kingdom is one of the few things I like so far about 4e FR. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 02:55:35
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I can buy that, and in fact I kind have toyed with introducing less evil orcs into the Realms a few times (and there are already the Odonti). But I do think that it would have been a little more interesting, and perhaps logical, to have the orcs as a noble warrior culture first, rather than jumping straight to them being a settled, civilized nation of their own.
For example, in Star Trek, when the Next Gen series introduced the Klingons as allies of the Federation, it didn't introduce them as primarily scientists and explorers like their allies, but as a warrior culture still, but not one thats actively warring with those around them.
Still, we only see a little of orc culture. They just seemed a little too settled to me. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 03:13:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
I still believe that the Orc King Prelude is set in the far future, but the actual story will take place in the mid 1370s. It is no different to the end of The Last Mythal, which jumped ahead a few years, except it is a longer stretch of time. It is clear from the prelude that the other Companions are long dead. When you are R.A Salvatore, selling huge numbers of books, making the NY Times bestseller list etc, you do not suddenly kill off your cast except one, jump 100 years, and start from scratch.
I was thinking of that possibility as well. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 03:16:06
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Didn't Ed say something awhile back about the original Realms having (or had) monstrous civilizations that got nixed before it was first released to the public back in the 80s?
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 03:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You could very well be right.
However, even if the timeline only jumps ahead the decade we are sure of, RAS has blatantly revealed information concerning what direction the Realms will be taking.
In ten years we will have to deal with the beginning of the Spellplague, in a hundred we deal with the results - but either way, certain events are now set in stone.
Red Walker - sorry dude, but you are just plain WRONG. I could list about two dozen sources where Orcs had major civilizations/kingdoms of their own. Most still mine, farm, build communities, etc...
Just one quick example - read the history entry for 'The Vast' in the FRCS. Orcs may have had kingdoms even before men, so don't be putting them down so much. In fact, just by reading that spoiler from the Orc King we can see how it was the humans and other demi-human races that kept the Orcs down.
No one TRIED to get along with the Orcs - they just killed them because they were ugly monsters. In Prince of Lies, Vraak (a hero of the Tuigan War, mind you) tells the lead character "They treat us like monsters, so we BE monsters".
So tell me, who are the true monsters?
There was even a story about an abused goblin that Drizzt took pity on, becuase it's human 'master' beat it everyday. Once again I ask you, who are the real monsters?
Sorry to go off on a tangent like this, but a stable Orc Kingdom is one of the few things I like so far about 4e FR.
An Orc Kingdom is an interesting change and the sample in this upcoming novel has definitely piqued my interest even more |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 03:40:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You could very well be right.
However, even if the timeline only jumps ahead the decade we are sure of, RAS has blatantly revealed information concerning what direction the Realms will be taking.
In ten years we will have to deal with the beginning of the Spellplague, in a hundred we deal with the results - but either way, certain events are now set in stone.
Red Walker - sorry dude, but you are just plain WRONG. I could list about two dozen sources where Orcs had major civilizations/kingdoms of their own. Most still mine, farm, build communities, etc...
Just one quick example - read the history entry for 'The Vast' in the FRCS. Orcs may have had kingdoms even before men, so don't be putting them down so much. In fact, just by reading that spoiler from the Orc King we can see how it was the humans and other demi-human races that kept the Orcs down.
No one TRIED to get along with the Orcs - they just killed them because they were ugly monsters. In Prince of Lies, Vraak (a hero of the Tuigan War, mind you) tells the lead character "They treat us like monsters, so we BE monsters".
So tell me, who are the true monsters?
There was even a story about an abused goblin that Drizzt took pity on, becuase it's human 'master' beat it everyday. Once again I ask you, who are the real monsters?
Sorry to go off on a tangent like this, but a stable Orc Kingdom is one of the few things I like so far about 4e FR.
No problem, I stand corrected as I have never read those sources.
But I do not think it is fair to blame their plight on the fact "that no one tried to get along with them". I mean how much time would you spend trying to get along with a pack of monsters who pillaged your Grandfather's village all those years ago ;) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 03:55:13
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Wow! So much in these few posts.
Those 1999/2000 posts are quite interesting, showing part of the Realms history with Jim Butler at the helm. The question about RSE was well planned and, IMHO, the replies expected, since it was long clear most of us didn't want a shakedown of the Realms. The question of "what do you think of first when you think of the Forgotten Realms?", however, was poorly prepared: the alternatives given clearly lead to "detail" being the choice of only those most ardent fans of FR. Absolutely useless poll if taken seriously.
Concerning Orcs, again I agree with Markustay. Orcs are savage, yes, both because it's in their nature in the first place, but also because they've never been given a chance to develop a strong, industrious society, being hunted all around by the dominant races. I'm not saying they're just poor beasts and that the other races are evil in not allowing them to grow as a society. It just happened that way, though for me it sounds too much humanlike for Elves to act like this. Perhaps they should have tried civilizing the Orcs eons before. Not so, it seems.
About Orcs and Klingons, I beg to differ. There's no way one can compare a society of warriors that managed to achieve enough of social organization leading them into progress with a society of savages, kept that way by their "enemies". To become "noble", or at least "honorable", the Orcs would have to move from a hunt-to-survive and law-of-the-strongest society into attaining a minimum of social interaction which would allow them to develop respect for deeds of honour instead of pure strength. Quite difficult a task when you're the "prey" of ages of bloodshed. The Klingons were the dominant race in their planet long before they developed social interactions worth calling a society. Quite different from the Orcs.
So far, the Orc kingdom is the only really interesting thing I heard about the 4e FR, though the ways it came to be is still something I may not like, spellplague and such considered.
I also don't think they will stretch time so much as 100 years into the future. Not only it would mean wasting lots of good names in the Roll of the Years, but also imagine the next jumps for 5e FR and 6e FR (I'm not being sarcastic... well, maybe a little) would happen equally with long time spans. Given the rate new rulesets are published, the Realms would probably last only another decade of real time.
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Thauglor
King of the Forest Country and RPGA Master GM
"And in this land I'll proudly stand
Until my dying day, sir;
For whate'er king o'er all command,
I'll still be a Cormyte brave, sir."
The Cormyte's Boast
Master Bard Chantalas |
Edited by - Thauglor on 09 Sep 2007 04:10:57 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 10:52:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
CCC...the Realms' version of KKK????
Perhaps not... But it is the abbreviation of a Belgian bomb-planting outfit in the 80s... Very inconsiderate of WotC and RAS  .
Now, on to the real business concerning the Realms. I did not think that WotC was planning on advancing the time line 100 years. Now, I am not so sure anymore. I originally thought that the Spellplague will simply going to be "alright, this happened, some people killed off, some classes mysteriously vanished, some other mysteriously arose, let's get back to business."
Based on this chapter, this is not going to happen - Thay, Mulhorand, Sembia in complete disarray. I tend to agree with Mace - it will probably be more like Dragonlance's War of Chaos. I do not think that such changes would occur overnight - it would be stretched over several years, if not decades, of game time, which would mean that the next campaign set will have to be set far enough in the future to allow all the changes to be contained within a hardcover. Hence: probably a large advance in the timeline.
If this is the case, this will change the mood and the nature of the Realms considerably. In my mind, the Realms has always been a place where a wide range of play can be accomodated. For an epic struggle between good and evil, please dial "Thay", "Drow" or "Bloodstone Lands", for a cloak-and-dagger campaign, please dial "Zhentarim", "Harpers", "Cult of the Dragon" or "Moonstars". For a local-guys-and-gals-done-good, dial "the Dales" or anywhere in the Western Heartlands, really. For city-based intrigue for intrigue's sake, dial "Waterdeep". For basic dungeoncrawls, dial "Myth Drannor", "Undermountain", "Western Heartlands" or "the North". For just wandering about, and get into general trouble - dial anything, basically. So, basically, the Realms allow for all kinds of play to be accomodated: from saving the multiverse to saving the next doorkid's pet kitten. If you just wI am not sure the Points of Light approach that permeates the "Orc King" 's teaser chapter will still allow for that wide variety of play. I have the impression that the new Realms, based on what appears in the Orc King teaser, will restrict the possibilities.
Me no like.
But there you go.
I did not purchase any of the 3rd edition or 3.5 FR material (not because of any specific dislike, there were other issues at the time), but I stayed on in the Realms, because with everything that had already been published, I had enough material to rely on in a pinch and enough undeveloped real estate to develop things according to my own likes. With 4th edition coming on, I'll probably continue to do so, as I have in the past. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 19:59:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauglor
Wow! So much in these few posts.
Those 1999/2000 posts are quite interesting, showing part of the Realms history with Jim Butler at the helm. The question about RSE was well planned and, IMHO, the replies expected, since it was long clear most of us didn't want a shakedown of the Realms. The question of "what do you think of first when you think of the Forgotten Realms?", however, was poorly prepared: the alternatives given clearly lead to "detail" being the choice of only those most ardent fans of FR. Absolutely useless poll if taken seriously.
I agree with you on the second question... But, I think the RSE question is invalid, too. Why? Because we long-standing fans have said over and over that we don't want them. However, had they said "There are going to be significant changes to canon with the advent of 3E. Should we have an RSE to provide an in-game explanation?", then I think the results would have been very, very different. We don't like RSEs, but we do love internal consistency -- something that was chucked out the window with 3E.
It's also interesting to note that, despite having asked the question and gotten an overwhelming anti-RSE response, 3E FR has been almost nothing but RSEs! Way to ignore the demographic, guys. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Sep 2007 20:00:44 |
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The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte
46 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 20:32:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
It almost feels like the Chaos War from DragonLance.
That, I feel, is a good comparison. I never bought the Chaos War materials - I always thought it was insulting and a bad idea.
As I've said/posted elsewhere, it seems counter intuitive that WotC would turn the setting into a proverbial train wreck (including demolishing whatever the PCs accomplished during their games) in an effort to draw more people to the setting (your characters only get to clean up the mess, how much fun is that, man?). Also, Drizzt’s monologoues have always been written at some point in the future – maybe they are all part of his memiours published ‘round about 1480 D.R.
I wish I could believe that, I truly do.
But because it seems the product of dubious thinking (namely a poorly thought out plan to get money), something of a slap in the face to long-time fans, an attampt to fix something that is not broken, I think this will happen to the setting. And everyone will go with it because, well, its official.
This is, afterall, the state of affairs that produced 4E, the introduction of 4E and so forth and so on.
Such is the way the real world works.
These changes to the setting are insulting at a new level. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm too old and tired to go for this kind of thing, where someone metaphorically kicks me in the balls, takes my milk money and then I'm supposed to say "Thank you sir can I have another."
People will buy these new books - and WotC will read into that a moral and material victory - while the old ones will ever increasingly be out of date and be obsolete. So this treatment of the fans becomes the rule of the land.
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"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna |
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The Orc King prologue discussion (SPOILERS)
