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Gwenfloor
Acolyte
39 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 02:22:38
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It has been repeatedly affirmed that Drow, throughout the multiple campaign settings, kill off the weak in their society to be stronger.
As for Faerun's Drow, what is their definition of weakness? Anyone with a physical and/or mental defect?
What about those whose weakness' are overshadowed by skill and experience, such as a one-armed soldier who can still fight with a rapier in one hand, even better than most other Drow, or a blind Wizard with super-human(or super-Drow) hearing? And what of Spiders, the most blessed creatures of Lolth? Are spiders in the pen that are born with birth defects killed, or are spiders too sacred to lay a hand upon?
I would assume that since Drow are almost never united, I would assume that a Menzoberranzan Drow's interpretation of weakness would be different than a Cormanthor Drows. But since all their high priests can cast Commune and get the answers straight from the deities, would the definitions remain fairly constant? Or am I just over-estimating the wisdom of the Drow?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 02:31:30
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The weak in Lolth society are those that die, failure to survive.
For the children there appears to be a srandard to distroy those that clearly are expected not to have beauty or are born impaired.
In Ed's vission which I believe is canon deities send dreams to their clerics, the dogma does not change much from city to city. As long as Lolth is the dominate religion most of the Drow will lack the wisdom to follow another deity.
As for spiders off hand I expect they are allowed to live or die without help of the Drow, the Driders can take care of that.
The basic rule in Lolthian society is to gather power, if a Drow has only one arm and no legs survives and gains rank that is all that is expected. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 03:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwenfloor
As for Faerun's Drow, what is their definition of weakness? Anyone with a physical and/or mental defect?
They destroy any who are Red Sox fans |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Gwenfloor
Acolyte
39 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 04:29:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
For the children there appears to be a srandard to distroy those that clearly are expected not to have beauty or are born impaired.
So what is their reason for seeing ugly Drow as weak? They can probably be just as cunning and powerful, or is it some sort of prejudice "Ugly people can't be strong leaders!" type? |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 04:48:17
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Drow Weakness is threefold:
Beauty: A drow is supposed to be beautiful in some manner. Whether that be physically attractive or have an elegant blade be up to a particular drow enclave.
Cold-heartedness: Drow kill without remorse. Those that have remorse and speak a few words over the body are likely to lay down over the corpse as a corpse. Remember that Death by Natural Causes law: A knife to the heart naturally kills someone. No further investigation, unless there's a witness (and the smart drow don't see a thing).
Power: For the priestesses, being a matron mother of a house. For the "normal" drow, it's possessing skills that cannot be matched elsewhere. This can, again, be swordplay, wizardly might, or even social networking that actually might work (hard to tell in drow society). Intimidation fits in here very well (I'd even argue that drow from the underdark should always have intimidate as a class skill if I were doing rule-rewrites).
I could go on about being cunning, quick and quiet, and other things as well, but the drow just seem to hold those three things in highest regard.
/d
P.S. I thought drow hated red shirts, not socks. There goes my cleric of Lathander... |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 05:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwenfloor
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
For the children there appears to be a srandard to distroy those that clearly are expected not to have beauty or are born impaired.
So what is their reason for seeing ugly Drow as weak? They can probably be just as cunning and powerful, or is it some sort of prejudice "Ugly people can't be strong leaders!" type?
In some ways you have an answer already, but to expand.
Every society has standards of whom the respect more then another. It could be hair color it could be deciding factor, etc.
Ugly leaders need to overcome their deformities to have any aceptance in Drow society (but Ugly in any society faces that problem).
"We have standards to maintain"
In part the way the rules are and in part the way real people act as a group. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 12 Jun 2007 05:24:23 |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 16:21:10
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Let us not forget they are still elves, and beauty is an important factor in elven society.
Another weakness is the lack of racial abilities that all drow should have, like casting darkness or have spell ressistance
Another trait a drow should have is intelligence, so he can make his own maschinations (spelling?) and understand those of his enemies, that way he can climp up the the power/social status ladder. I believe stupid drow are been used by their kin and die early
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:22:26
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Since when does "ugly" equal "deformed"? It could just be "plain" or "homely". I also recall reading numerous times that Triel Baenre isn't especially beautiful (though not "ugly" either), yet she's managed to stay on top.
Anyway, I agree that there's probably no straight answer for this (and I'd bet each drow has their own ideas about what weaknesses are more irritating and/or are worthy of death), but personally I always took it to mean "whoever doesn't survive was weak". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:28:11
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| I can't remember the specific sources, but I do seem to remember that any physical defomities (i.e. missing limbs, blindness, deafness, and the like) is cause for a drow child to be killed, and I seem to remember Shakti from the Starlight and Shadows books was constantly worried that other drow would find out that she had bad eyesight. She was also noted as being a bit chubby and not particularly attractive, but she didn't seem to worry that that would get her killed. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:34:45
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Can not place hand right now on 2nd Edition source book, however it appeared clear that deformed were killed to me.
Also on course was throwing the children into a room with enough food to feed half of them. Survival of the fittest in very raw terms. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:38:06
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I don't know if my post is being addressed or not, but my point was that "ugly" doesn't necessarily mean "deformed". I was specifically responding to this statement:
quote:
Ugly leaders need to overcome their deformities to have any aceptance in Drow society (but Ugly in any society faces that problem).
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:49:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I don't know if my post is being addressed or not, but my point was that "ugly" doesn't necessarily mean "deformed". I was specifically responding to this statement:
quote:
Ugly leaders need to overcome their deformities to have any aceptance in Drow society (but Ugly in any society faces that problem).
 Actually I was citing Shakti to support your point. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I don't know if my post is being addressed or not, but my point was that "ugly" doesn't necessarily mean "deformed". I was specifically responding to this statement:
quote:
Ugly leaders need to overcome their deformities to have any aceptance in Drow society (but Ugly in any society faces that problem).
Actually I was citing Shakti to support your point.
Understood. :) Thank you. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 23:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I don't know if my post is being addressed or not, but my point was that "ugly" doesn't necessarily mean "deformed". I was specifically responding to this statement:
quote:
Ugly leaders need to overcome their deformities to have any aceptance in Drow society (but Ugly in any society faces that problem).
*sighs* Word useage and meanings.
Many considered a deformity is by being ugly in view to others of society they live in. This does not mean a missing limb or other direct disablity. There is a great outcry in the US about people seeking to be thinner then healthy because that is pretty, on the otherside there is a great outcry against people overweight. Some call both ugly. I was ugly because of the way I speak, still might be to some but if so they are not required to interact with ma - school is out.
A deformity in any form would also get classified as ugly, does not look like a true Drow. A plain looking Drow would be less ugly but in a world where everything counts, looking pleasing clearly is an advantage. Looks and/or body damage can be overcomed, howevre it clearly in the culture less likely.
You need to look good to advance (unless you can bring other skills to make up for the lack), also good at guarding your back (front, side, top and bottom). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Drow: What is Weakness?
