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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 04:04:29
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Hey Everybody,
My group's current FR campaign is running in DR 1374 (Lightning Storms) right smack dab in the middle of Dagger Falls and the surrounding southern lands of Daggerdale. All the players are around 12th level and are working with Lord Morn on a number of different missions. The most important mission of course, is dealing with consistent and chronic problem of dealing with Zhent commando & spy incursions.
That said, I just read Dragon #354 and absolutely loved feasting my eyes on that great Volo's Guide article entitled "Cormanthor: War Amidst the Trees" by Eric Boyd.
Having re-read the entire article, I was surprised to see that with all the heavy-duty Zhent activity in the Dalelands (in those respective game sourcebooks and novel), there was nary a mention of Zhent activity coursing through Daggerdale. (??)
Do any of you well-read and learned FR sages have any fact details on Daggerdale mentionings in any of those books?
If there are no mentionings, I'd love to hear some of your theories on what Randal Morn, the Freedom Riders, and the Daggerdale citizenry have been dealing with in regards to all the serious Zhent army movements within their sphere of influence.
Thanks for all your help! 
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 19:29:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Snow
Hey Everybody,
My group's current FR campaign is running in DR 1374 (Lightning Storms) right smack dab in the middle of Dagger Falls and the surrounding southern lands of Daggerdale. All the players are around 12th level and are working with Lord Morn on a number of different missions. The most important mission of course, is dealing with consistent and chronic problem of dealing with Zhent commando & spy incursions.
That said, I just read Dragon #354 and absolutely loved feasting my eyes on that great Volo's Guide article entitled "Cormanthor: War Amidst the Trees" by Eric Boyd.
Having re-read the entire article, I was surprised to see that with all the heavy-duty Zhent activity in the Dalelands (in those respective game sourcebooks and novel), there was nary a mention of Zhent activity coursing through Daggerdale. (??)
Do any of you well-read and learned FR sages have any fact details on Daggerdale mentionings in any of those books?
If there are no mentionings, I'd love to hear some of your theories on what Randal Morn, the Freedom Riders, and the Daggerdale citizenry have been dealing with in regards to all the serious Zhent army movements within their sphere of influence.
Thanks for all your help!
I did not include info on Daggerdale as it was "out of scope" for an article on Cormanthor. (I consider Shadowdale and Mistledale as "part of Cormanthor", while the other dales lie next to Cormanthor.)
There isn't current info on Daggerdale (at least that I can recall). I don't recall whether we address the issue in Shadowdale. However, you can probably infer a great deal from the Dragon article and Shadowdale.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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MaxKaladin
Seeker
77 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 20:57:10
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| I recall reading in that article that a Zhent army was sent to attack Daggerdale and Shadowdale and then a later mention that it was forced to retreat. Though there is no specific mention of such, I think it can be inferred that there was a battle against that army that included forces from Daggerdale. |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 03:59:52
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Eric, thanks for the reply. :-) I see what you mean about Daggerdale's exclusion from the most Cormanthyr-influenced Dalelands. I guess I always considered Daggerdale to be as much a Cormanthyr "Dale" as the others due to its border-touching up at the northeast sector of the large forest (Greentree in particular). I'll wait and see if there are any Daggerdale nuggets in the upcoming Shadowdale release before I make significant changes to my campaign. I try to keep my Realms as close to canon as possible ...
Max, thank you too for your reply. :-) I re-read the article a few times ... but I can't seem to find that reference on any of the 5 pages of the article. Perhaps you have a page #? That would be interesting to hear of a canon reference to a significant number of Freedom Riders doing recent battle against the Zhents.
Best regards. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 05:48:30
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Could the fact that Daggerdale was not included in any major attack be attributed to how hard that particular Dale has been to occupy in the past? If I were the Zhents, I'd leave it out of the conflict for now. Randal Morn has given them a lot of grief in the past.
Or, it could just be undocumented. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 12:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
See the Kythorn 12 entry on pg. 72.
That's the one.
Anyone remember the page number of the follow-up on Daggerdale (if any) in Rich's trilogy?
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 12:38:47
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
See the Kythorn 12 entry on pg. 72.
That's the one.
Anyone remember the page number of the follow-up on Daggerdale (if any) in Rich's trilogy?
--Eric
No, but I'm sure I made a note of it somewhere, so I'll have a hunt around. Given my current campaign is based out of Daggerdale this interests me more than a little too. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 12:48:39
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| Hey Eric any objections to me incorparating your Dragon Timeline into the Timeline thread Ive got running here at candlekeep? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 14:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Hey Eric any objections to me incorparating your Dragon Timeline into the Timeline thread Ive got running here at candlekeep?
Go for it.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2007 : 23:48:28
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Thanks, the Sage. Daggerdale's hyphenation is what threw me off. :-P It looks like Zhentil Keep did not wisely chose a capable ally though. Hillsfar eventually ended up getting smacked around by two prior allies whom chose to renege on with their alliances. That being House Dlardrageth and Zhentil Keep.
***
Mazrim_Taim ... I agree with your assessment as to why the Zhents did not wholeheartedly place Daggerdale as a primary attack point. What I'm going to do in my campaign, is to bring in the Zhent/Hillsfar ill-fated invasion attempt, but place more emphasis on the scouting, espionage, and hit-&-run strategies that the Zhents were more likely to amp-up in light of their greater ambitions in the lower Dales. My guess is that there was probably very small Zhent assets allocated to the Daggerdale invasion attempt. And that the Zhent troop leaders probably saw little chance of a full-scale invasion having any possibility of easy-&-quick success. Therefore, they just amplified their current tactics to a more frequent and dangerous level.
***
Reefy ... I'd be curious to hear about the overarching aspects of your Daggerdale campaign!
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Edited by - Snow on 06 Apr 2007 23:51:20 |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2007 : 16:49:25
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Eric,
That map of greater Cormanthyr is *AMAZING*. Is there anywhere online where we can get a copy of it in JPG/GIF form?
I have about half-a-dozen map pictures on my hard drive of Cormanthyr (fan made, WotC made, all types), but that one is better than all of them.
{sigh} ... I just wish I had a scanner. |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2007 : 18:14:26
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quote:
Mazrim_Taim ... I agree with your assessment as to why the Zhents did not wholeheartedly place Daggerdale as a primary attack point. What I'm going to do in my campaign, is to bring in the Zhent/Hillsfar ill-fated invasion attempt, but place more emphasis on the scouting, espionage, and hit-&-run strategies that the Zhents were more likely to amp-up in light of their greater ambitions in the lower Dales. My guess is that there was probably very small Zhent assets allocated to the Daggerdale invasion attempt. And that the Zhent troop leaders probably saw little chance of a full-scale invasion having any possibility of easy-&-quick success. Therefore, they just amplified their current tactics to a more frequent and dangerous level.
That sounds like a good idea, seeing as the Zhents likely still have several spies in Daggerdale.
Also, besides strategic position, what does Daggerdale offer? It's not exactly the richest dale. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2007 : 16:23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
[quote]That sounds like a good idea, seeing as the Zhents likely still have several spies in Daggerdale.
Also, besides strategic position, what does Daggerdale offer? It's not exactly the richest dale.
True. But the Zhents fought relentlessly for over 30 years to get Daggerdale. So it seems that the strategic positioning for trade and military transport routes are of much more worth than people probably first thought. Apparently, the Zhents had grand intentions of having a transport "alley" that stretched from Tilverton all the way to Hillsfar. And they probably still do!
When I get home, I'll have to re-read Eric Boyd's article to get a more accurate assessment of Zhent's current power levels (which I hope will be easily gleaned by reading the last few Zhent-related entries in Eric's chronology). |
Edited by - Snow on 08 Apr 2007 16:24:10 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2007 : 16:42:30
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Garen Thal mentioned in another thread that if Shadowdale and Mistledale were to be consolidated under Zhent control, especially now that Hillsfar is theirs more or less, that this might be enough to rouse Cormyr from its more isolationist/non-expansion mode. If the Zhents realize this as well, they may leave Daggerdale as a later conquest after securing Mistledale, since this would block a potential friendly region for Cormyr to send troops into, and it would secure the Moonsea Ride all the way from Hillsfar to what's left of Tilverton.
Daggerdale may have an important strategic value to them, but given that they fought so hard for it for so long and ended up loosing it, I can see that they may have adopted a different strategy, to challenge dales that aren't as used to being challenged by them, shore up their gains, then "fill in the gaps."
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 00:52:14
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I'm still waiting my arrival of #354 (stupid bank holidays mean no post), so will need to have a look at how it's going to affect things in my campaign. As it is, I'm several months in game away from this point, so I've got some time to think about it, and half the part is currently in Archenbridge, the other half in Daggerford on the way to Silverymoon...
Anyway, Snow, for your pleasure, here's a rundown on some of my campaign themes and plots. I'm hoping to bring back Gothyl as the archvillain of the piece. Randal Morn has learnt to slowly trust some groups of adventurers that fought with him to reclaim Daggerdale and to rescue him in the old adventure series. That group were also the ones he sent to deal with the City of the Spier Queen threat, but they're now largely retired, busy travelling elsewhere etc, so the PCs are their natural successors. He's also wanting to retire from ruling and settle down with his companion (a Joydancer), who nobody know is his consort as he fears for her safety if it were known. One of Silver Morn's children is displaying sorcerous powers (Ed mentioned at some point she and her offspring were blessed by Mystra at some point), and she is being groomed as the successor. Randal fought long and hard to win back his rulership, but now he just wants to step down. He will only do this when his legacy is secured, in as much as there is a stronger peace. Daggerdale is still rebuilding slowly from occupation, and the elven crusade and now the Zhent openings aren't making life easier for him. And while Gothyl remains in existence, he always feels that hanging over him. Also, he'd love to get hold of the Sword of the Dales properly for its symbolic value, though he doubts that's going to happen. As for how this affects the PCs, well one of them is Dagger Falls born and bred, another is from Snowmantle, which in my campaign is retaken by the Zhents as part of their advance, and another is a Knight of the Holy Judgement, operating out of a new temple I had placed in Dagger Falls under the charge of Randal's companion Tunfer the Stout.
Currently two of the PCs are hunting devils in Cormanthor and I'll shortly be running them through The Raiders of Galaths Roost. The Zhent fortress I've placed as being somewhere north of Eveningstar, but I'm planning on seeing what the PCs do with all the portals if they take it over. I forsee some negotiations between Cormyr and the Dales. I expect to see Cormyr take it over, seal any undesirable portals and use it as a trade hub, but I'm sure any of the Dales will be so keen on Cormyr having that kind of easy access. The PCs may well be involved in negotiations. By this stage they will be known in Ashabenford and they're already known in Shadowdale - they owe Munro at Morningdawn Hall a big favour, and he's going to charge them with finding the item that will show who will be the new Morninglord in Silverymoon (see SM for that), because he sees it as his ticket out of 'the backwaters'. Due to these ties, I forsee the PCs getting involved in fighting the Zhent occupation, not least because they've already crossed paths with the Zhents and have a recurring villain to eventually see off, a 'half-dog cleric of Bane' (this is an in-joke because one of my players has been threatening to play a character matching that description should his current one die...) As it is, they've not actually met him yet, though they know his name and know he's highly ranked in the church of Bane. In actuality, he's a weredog who was captured and tortured by a pack of werewolves who became embittered, turned to Bane, slew all his captors and then joined the Zhentarim - I look forward to seeing their reactions when they discover his real identity.
Hope this may throw some ideas your way, I'd certainly be interested in hearing what you're doing with this corner of the world. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 13:05:37
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Eric . . . this was a terrific article!
As it stands now, I'm actually more than a little intrigued by the coming developments in the Shadowdale adventure book.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Lady Kazandra on 14 Apr 2007 13:06:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 13:56:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
Eric . . . this was a terrific article!
As it stands now, I'm actually more than a little intrigued by the coming developments in the Shadowdale adventure book.
Ditto that... Especially the part about Mourngrym saying, "Okay, so the Zhents are going to be taking care of us, and it's all cool." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 17:42:26
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| If I remember correctly he says that after the Zhentilar have moved into Shadowdale. So I'm thinking that having a knife to the throat can make people say weird things. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 14 Apr 2007 17:42:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 00:52:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
If I remember correctly he says that after the Zhentilar have moved into Shadowdale. So I'm thinking that having a knife to the throat can make people say weird things.
Ah, but Mourngrym isn't the type to just submit... I'd expect him to stash the family and go to ground, the second it started looking like the Dalesfolk were going to lose. I could be mistaken, of course, but the fact that he's still around indicates that while it may not have been entirely voluntary, it wasn't coercion, either.
Besides, if the Zhents simply rode in and conquered the place, why did they leave one of their foes not only alive, but in a position of power? It's not even been two generations since the Zhents assassinated and replaced the Lord of Shadowdale.
No, I think what we're seeing here is some sort of very uneasy alliance. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 00:56:29
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| Also want to chime in and say what a great article it is, having finally got my hands on it. I too eagerly await more information. What really threw me though was the mention of the Warblade... |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 03:09:21
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Eric has surreptitiously sneaked in more than a bit of realmslore in this instalment of the adventure trilogy. Some of it will shock and amaze. Now what was that you were saying about Aumry, Eric?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 10:22:21
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Well met
Well I only just managed to get hold of my copy of #354 yesterday. Firstly, what a fantastic article! The FR content has certainly picked up somewhat over the past few issues 
Secondly, thanks for the nod to Candlekeep in the credits, Eric. 'tis much appreciated  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 11:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
Also want to chime in and say what a great article it is, having finally got my hands on it. I too eagerly await more information. What really threw me though was the mention of the Warblade...
;-)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 11:58:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
Well I only just managed to get hold of my copy of #354 yesterday. Firstly, what a fantastic article! The FR content has certainly picked up somewhat over the past few issues
Secondly, thanks for the nod to Candlekeep in the credits, Eric. 'tis much appreciated
No problem. This folks of this site proved very helpful in writing the article. (See all my questions in Dargoth's timeline thread.)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Daggerdale, Morn, & Boyd's #354 Article
