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 Trouble with keeping players focused =(
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2006 :  22:59:43  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hey fellow DMs.Well the problem is this.Sometimes i'm having problems keeping my players focused,they sometimes start to talk about something else.I had in mind to get an MP3 player and play some atmosphere music,like a criptic theme for when their exploring a tomb or battleing undead.Or a tavern background one for when their in a tavern etc.Any advice?Thx in advance.

William Yeats

Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2006 :  23:21:09  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It can be frustrating, but if everyone is having fun, then perhaps it's best to leave them to it. If you get strict and enforce play, then it would ultimately end up less enjoyable for them (not suggesting you'll do that, just a warning).

background music isn't likely to be something that'll make players stop and pay attention. If you're having trouble keeping them focused try including more combat scenes, or adventures where it often takes the whole party to overcome something (not just oh lets wait whilst the charismatic one does the talking, or we'll hang around whilst the rogue scouts).

If you do all the dice rolling try letting the players do some more of the rolling (like their attack rolls, damage rolls, etc) to keep them focused.

Thats all I can think of atm, but I know the DMG has loads of suggestions
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2006 :  23:46:21  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really can't leave them to it cuz progress is verry slow this way and furthermore when they do this,they kinda step out of the atmosphere and feeling i created in the dungeon etc.

William Yeats

Edited by - Mordakay of Thay on 19 Apr 2006 23:47:45
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2006 :  23:49:55  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mordakay of Thay

I really can't leave them to it cuz progress is verry slow this way and furthermore when they do this,they kinda step out of the atmosphere and feeling i created in the dungeon etc.



But are you bothered that progress is slow for your benefit or theirs? I know it's hard but if they're happy not progressing so fast then thats their perogative really, the most important part of being a DM is making sure your players have fun
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  00:03:10  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes you are completely right,the DMs goal is to make the PCs have fun.The problem is most of the talk is out of game talk ,wich has nothing to do with anything D&D and thats verry anoying considering u worked so hard to make the campaign to see it progress so slow =(.But your advice is good.I need to make the battles harder for them.They seem to have allot of luck 2,my most powerfull monster in the last adventure got killed pretty easely without they getting to manny scars cuz they had this incredible luck,i couldn't get a roll over 10 with the monster,and they got every hit on them(it was this banedead,wich i believed could even kill a party member or two).Maybe some lifethreatening battles won at the edge will get them to focus more :)?

William Yeats

Edited by - Mordakay of Thay on 20 Apr 2006 00:03:46
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1618 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  03:30:56  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My rule is fun first. When my group gets together, Rarely these days with work and such, we consentrate more on the aspect of being together. However, some of the fault would be on a DM. Make it interesting, get THEIR ideas on what THEY want to acomplish. This has always assisted with my campaigns and with not only the direction I want to go, but theirs as well. Sometimes we get through a lot, other times we hang out and drink a few too many ale's, dicussing OTHER great adventures we have all had. My opinion of D&D is having fun, getting together with good friends, and after all of that playing a game that has captured all of our attentions throughout the years.(Scererar looks back at 20 years of the realms and D&D in general, this year)
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  05:00:09  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do not think music will help, unless you add themes decorations. Canfles for caves and so on. Even that might not work.


In part what you are describing a social gather, to play part time (The indication that most talk is OOC). You can try to tighten up the game with something like an egg timer / if you do othing IC by the bell you delay until next round. The egg timer is an extreme way to go. There are lessor ways to go first.

Yes the players are to have fun, it is a game, however the DM should have fun as well. Revealing the world to the PCs, traps, treasures, and so on. If they players are being too social, the DM wonders what s/he did wrong. Was the plot wrong? Did I not might that important clue stand out enough? It is bad enough when the players do not find the secert door (important to the adventure) or go off the map (directions or descions not even remotely considered) to make a DM pull out thier hair. They do know that having options will result in some wonders not being found, but in this case it sounds like they are not even looking (the players I mean, the PCs when players give them attention hopefully are on task).

Other then egg timer, which indeed is extreme, a lessor option is rolling dice, perhaps making a comment, "Oh that is interesting" etc. to try to bring them into the game. The dice rolls do not need to mean anything, but should focus the players more on playing the game. Sometimes the dice could also become very important, the rolls while waiting for IC could result in a new NPC, change in the weather, and so on. All the players (this includes the DM) should be gaming for fun.

Before making any changes it though might be good to talk to the players and explain why the DM is not having fun. Perhaps a deal can be reached where the DM just has to roll up a randon moster once in a while , not worry about develping a world at all.

There is no one answer, each group has to determine what is a fun gaming session. For some it appears, 30 IC, 45 eating pizza, 20 talking about work, 50 talking about sex, 5 arguement about religion. Or whatever.

If the DM is not having fun, there is a problem that needs to be solved as much as if a player is not having fun. How to solve it varies with the group, there is no universal answer.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  10:09:21  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes,sometimes i'm not having fun at all,seing them in the middle of a puzzle changing the subject.But thx for the advice,it will surely help me.

William Yeats
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  11:46:50  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try to find out what your players want.

A few years back we had a weekly game, in the middle of the week. People came from work, college etc and were not 'in the zone'. We were supposed to start playing at around 18:00, by 19:00 everyone was there and by 20:00 we started playing...until 23:00 at the most. When we changed it to bi-weekly, things didn't really improve that much, so I (one of the groups main GMs) left the group being tired of it.

Now, with my new group, which has been running off and on for roughly 5 years it is different. We play once a month, on a Sunday. Sure there still is some table-talk, but people come to play first and foremost. Also we play for about 8-9 hours, starting at around 13:00 and going on, with pizza break, until 23:00 on occassion.

If players have a chance to relax inbetween games and don't come to the game with their head still at work/college/school the atmosphere is usually much more game-friendly. Plus it gives the players the time to meet in between game-days and socialize then.

As for music, it won't help if the players are distracted anyway, they might even discuss the movie which soundtrack you are currently playing. Music adds atmosphere when there already is atmosphere...

Combat might get their attention, but only for a while, if they are already distracted.

Make the players invest time and love into the game as well, if they are to read about the world and know who their character really is and where he comes from it also helps. Many games, where the socializing aspect is predominant, don't really get the players involved. There is the world, there is the adventure... but not much more. In that case you could also play NWN via LAN.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  13:46:10  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll keep the advice in mind.Thx allot for the replys guys.

William Yeats
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe

USA
299 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  15:43:00  Show Profile  Visit Fletcher's Homepage Send Fletcher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I too had issues with the players being focused, so we talked about what they players wanted one evening instead of playing, and it was decided to have a monthly game, play for 10 hrs. This allows the players to chat and get things out of the way for the first hour or so, and then still have about 8 hrs to play. It made us all a great deal more focused.

Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up!
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  22:46:33  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can recommend the music... I have background music running non-stop. It really adds to the game. Try the soundtrack from Bram Stokers Dracula and of course from the LOTR movies. Soundtracks from other horror/gothic adventures are great as well. Sleepy Hollow, From Hell, The Ninth Gate and such... Try it, you will not be dissapointed.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2006 :  22:55:05  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your players get unfocused either because they're not that interested in the game, or because they're not able to act in accordance with that interest. Talk with them and find out which, and tell us what's going on, because we don't have enough information yet to advise you much. We don't know how compellingly you're DMing. You may be able to explain the virtues of the campaign to them if they've simply, for instance, failed to imagine how it could be. You may be able to change your DMing style to support your players' concentration -- but only if they really want to concentrate. If these things don't work, getting new players is a far more efficient way of improving your campaign than trying to change the ones you have.

To repeat, talk with your players.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  02:00:32  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have you noticed that they are more interested in the game depending on what you do? For example, if you are in a dungeon, do they get distracted, but out in the wilderness they get into setting up camp, looking for monsters in the wild, etc?

My players always have at least three or four moments of complete out of character outburst in a four hour session, but they don't last that long.

On the other hand, I have noticed that while interested in the game, they change how they act in a dungeon than when they are in towns or the wilderness. In town or in the wild, they are more in character, coming up with interests that their characters pursue, but in the dungeon, they get very GAME focused. Not so much metagaming, but just very analytical. "I march up exactly twenty feet from here, and check for traps at this point, this point and this point, and when I am X number of feet from this door, I make a listen check, and this is my standard sweep pattern."

Suddenly they become the most professional adventurers around, no matter how they play them elsewhere. Its interesting. I think dungeons in particular tend to remind players that it is a game, whereas cities and the wild tend to involve their imagination more.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah . . .

My point is, have you noticed a pattern to when they start getting distracted, and are they just not roleplaying, or are they ignoring the whole game?
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  11:36:36  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes kinda.It seems that in the wilderness or in an urban setting they are more focused than in a dungeon.I had a bit of bad luck on rolls also,and they had allot of luck getting crits and stuff especially in dungeons and against challenging foes taking them down pretty quick.I think thats got them to think that my campaign is easy and they don't need to worry much cuz they can't die.As for the wilderness,the whole party almost died in a fight once,they we're fighting some drow and the drow used their notorious sleep poison darts and darkness on them.The drow were lvl 1 warriors while the party was lvl 2 and the drow didn't even outnumber them.They survived because the ranger was on wach that night in a tree :P lol.So he practically sniped them from up there,and finished 3 of them off pretty fast.That got them to be more vigilant :).Anyway I think i'm gonna make the fights in the dungeon more tough,not to wipe out the party,but to leave some scars.Think I will add some deadlier traps too.Thx for the advice.Really helps.Cheers.

William Yeats
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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  12:32:01  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
about the bad rolls ... remember that DM's can't cheat ... they just use loaded dice (whoops ... that wasn't a 2 ... that was a 18) ... just don't overdo it

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  12:41:02  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Talk to them first and find out what the players want. Dungeons are part of the game (D'OH), but if they don't enjoy dungeons as much as city or out of doors adventures, try catering more to their wants, you run the game, yes, but if your players don't enjoy themselves, you might not have that much fun with it either.

Deadly traps aren't necessarily the solution; communication, however, is.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  17:42:48  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mordakay, if they are generally uninterested in the game and only focus when they feel their characters in special danger, further endangering their characters will only alleviate a symptom of the problem, not fix the problem itself. Only communicating with your players and getting on the same page will do that.
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  18:49:53  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I talked to the players and we played a nice session today,focused on the game the whole time.The combats took to long though,one of them was vs this void ghoul sorcerer and a group of skeletons(the party is lvl 2).It took kinda allot of time.Any fast tips for speeding up combat besides the ones in the DMG ^^?Without loosing the descriptions :).I want u guys to know that i really apreciate your help here.Thx again.

William Yeats
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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  20:13:08  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
... well ... one of the major problems my DM have is that he doesn't make the monsters before hand but first need to write it down ... a tip would be that you keep a 'stack' of monsters in your backhand ready to use when you need or just throw after them at any odd moment instead of writing it beforehand

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2006 :  22:15:56  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem (and the FUN) of tabletop-/miniature-based combat is that it does take time. On the one hand it shows the players the odds, numerical-wise. If you just described "Well, you are facing 25 creatures...they look like this...bla bla" most players will never get it, it's just numbers. The minis enhance the game, my players were so excited and 'hyped' about the miniature battle when we played with them the first time that they actually didn't want to stop playing... this hasn't changed, although we, as a group, have already decided to limit miniature battles to decisive events, otherwise you will do nothing but battle for an entire day.
Keep in mind that a battle of, say, 1 game-world-minute (10 combat rounds) can take up to 2-3 hours if you have many foes and difficult situations. So minimize on the 'fillers' and keep the good stuff on the map, so to speak. Also, if the room the characters enter is occupied by pathetically low-level critters and it really isn't that important, cut to cinematic scenes, describe it without rolling dice, let the heroes waltz right through the mobs and move on.
Or cut down on the combat in terms of leaving out pointless encounters. The old modules (1st edition ones mostly) had combat in almost every room... *major yawn* In the one I'm DMing right now (Dark Clouds Gather) I did away with some unimportant fights, but kept some random encounters, which challeneged the PCs a tad more than a bunch of gnomes or whatnot.

Go with whatever suits you and the players best. Talk with them, ask em what they want.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2006 :  08:20:22  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the session lasted 5 hours,and the fight took just 1.About the miniatures,well I have some,but certainly not enough :(.I live in Romania and i have to buy my D&D material from Germany,and for me its really expensive also.We just have to manage with what we have.Anyway the combat was certainly allot of fun.lol I wonder how much would a dragon fight last :D.

William Yeats
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2006 :  09:40:36  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm... should you ever come to Germany, PM me... I'll put together a mini-care-package from a few of my 'spares'.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Mordakay of Thay
Acolyte

Romania
33 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2006 :  13:08:39  Show Profile Send Mordakay of Thay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well usually my dad goes there on bussines.And he goes to Mannheim(hope i sp it right) in the southeast.But I may come this sumer ^^.Thx anyway.

William Yeats

Edited by - Mordakay of Thay on 22 Apr 2006 13:12:02
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2006 :  07:15:02  Show Profile  Visit Wandering_mage's Homepage Send Wandering_mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First off you have to make sure the people you play DnD with want to play DnD. Second you have to keep it simple sometimes. With a good group you can go all out with the storyline and role-playing. Other groups of less experienced players will be all about the combat. Sadly that is just how it is. I myself try to tailor my games to interest my players. Sometimes it is a hit. Sometimes a miss. Make sure you work on your comunication skills too. The better you work on your storytelling and descriptive narritive the better the game. Just suggestions mind you. I always hate when players stack dice. That brings on a combat encounter every time.

Illum
The Wandering Mage
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