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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 01:14:58
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I am currently running a campaign based in the Underdark, and one of my players asked me, would it be possible to buy a house in Menzoberranzan...
To tell the truth I've no idea how land owning works in Menzoberranzan, there seems to be no mention of it in any known to me product of any edition...
I was thinking along the lines of: "The noble houses own parcels of the city, and if you wish to settle in an abandoned building or buy one from it's owner (a rentee rather) you must contact the house which owns that particular plot of land and arrange it with them"
But if that would be how it works, than there also have to be taxes...sounds quite reasonable, what do you think ??
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...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 02:05:00
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In part you ask two things, my thoughts on the matter.
There clearly can be abandoned buildings, tat result from House wars. If the attacking House wins they clearly will own such lands. If the attacking House fails, all the House combine to distroy the failures. Such lands can not be claimed by any other House in its entirity and most likely would become abandoned, posible areas that a House increasing in power might seek to move to without objection by stronger Houses because blight is unseemly. Even Drow like fair sights. This property would not have to be purchased, though a House moving up would open itself to attack because of split forces. If move made sucessfully the older and lessor holding might be sold or still held by the House for merchant trade orposible reserve forces for when the next House war occurs.
I do not see any tax system being in place as the city relies of slave labor to provide the wealth of the city. If a Drow can not pay his bills he is killed. There of course would be expectations of donations to Lolth that will be required to be paid or a Drow will be killed. City projects are decided by the 8 most powerful Houses and all Houses and Mercantile Groups will be told to pay for such projects, or be killed. Before you start to worry too much abut the leading 8 Houses not paying afair share, there is prestige in claiming to have funded 10 percent of the project (of course if they can actually get away with paying less, they will not mention that *wink*).
For someone new to the city first one might need to become a merchant renting space in the bazzar, perhaps purchasing a building there first. To become a House one needs to gather enough followers and slaves to be able to maintain such a holding. It will help if the new comer marries a lessor duagther of son (depending on gender of character) to have some access to a noble name (A male of course will have to work though his wife to establish a House in its own right, because males are slightly better then slaves).
You need to be rich to establish a House and you clearly need retainers willing to die for you. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 02:09:39
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First off by House, do you mean a home or a Noble/Merchant House?
Kentinal pretty much answered both.
If you want to get a home within the Slums, pretty much is it Might makes Right.
There are a few places where one can try to establish a base, the Slums, Clawrift, to name a couple. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Edited by - warlockco on 01 Feb 2006 02:10:19 |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 08:44:12
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Well, he is thinking about buying a small house/apartment in Manyfolk of perhaps Eastmyr. And here is where my problem appears - who should he contact ? He won't be going from door to door asking "excuse me, is this house for sale ? No ? Maybe you know if your neighbour wants to sell his ??" 
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...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 09:51:48
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One thing that I think is quite common in Menzoberranzan is to kill the occupant and forge the documents to give you ownership  . |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 10:34:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Torkwaret
Well, he is thinking about buying a small house/apartment in Manyfolk of perhaps Eastmyr. And here is where my problem appears - who should he contact ? He won't be going from door to door asking "excuse me, is this house for sale ? No ? Maybe you know if your neighbour wants to sell his ??"
Ah in that case, you can decide if an individual has it up for sale, a Merchant House or a Noble House.
Just have something like "contact information" in the window or some such.
And then the PC can go negotiate either purchase price or the amount of the lease.
Just for simplicity, just treat it as "modern real estate" which in of itself gets quite cutthroat at times.  |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 12:08:58
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Eastmyr
Phartrin's Estates
Upon negotiating the price with Phartrin (CE male drow Rog 2/Wiz 6), you are told to wait until all the necessary arrangements are made with the current owner. During this time the proprietor(s) of the estate becomes victim to a series of unfortunate accidents, ranging from "real" accidents, through poisonings, orc/hobgoblin attacks up to "freak" magical accidents.
Braeryn
Uzog's "Foreclosure"
Uzog (CE male orc Brb 3/Ftr 4), the proprietor of this enterprise is a burly orc covered in dozens of long, ugly looking scars. Formerly he was a member of a mercenary band that was nearly wiped out during an attack on a bandit settlement (who suprisingly to both the mercenaries and their employers were minions of a mature black dragon). The procedure used by Uzog and his "boyz" is much faster, yet much less discrete
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...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
Edited by - Torkwaret on 01 Feb 2006 12:15:40 |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 17:48:03
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One thing should be mentioned: Drow are absolute Racists!
I cannot under any circumstances imagine, that Non-Drow could own anything like real estates in Menzoberranzan! Neither would any Drow accept any claims of ownerships by any Non-drow.
The only exception I can image could be a storage for a trading company, and only then, if the major part of a (huge) profit goes into the coffers of some very influnetal protector (first houses or Bregan D'aerthe)... but even then the other Drow would probably plot some "accidents"
Mod edit: Some of this post doesn't belong on these boards. Edited for content. |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
Edited by - Kuje on 01 Feb 2006 19:05:10 |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 18:14:34
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Hmmm....
The first establishment - Phartrin's Estates provides it's services only to the drow and propably some duergar and humans, simply because it is located in Eastmyr and there are few non-drow businesses there. I can see it working, because it brings gold to the coffers of the Houses who own parcels in Eastmyr, and if the occasional non-drow starts causing problems or paying rent, well...accidents happen.
The second one operates within the boudaries of Braeryn - "...Here dwell the nameless and diseased drow, the lawless, and goblins, orcs, bugbears, and other non-drow hangers-on and occasional hirelings...". It is effectively a paid "forced eviction" group. There is no mention of owning anything. You point a spot which you want to claim, pay them and they "depopulate" it.
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...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
Edited by - Torkwaret on 01 Feb 2006 18:20:14 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 18:34:31
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One thought occurs to me, if you have to purchase such a service odds are good retaining ownership could be hard.
Of course mercenary groups can be hired to do the light work, you one is able to do the heavy work later. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 18:53:13
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Yeah, I am still thinking how to make Phartrin's Estates more realistic...
"Uzog's" on the other hand seems quite ok to me  |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 19:21:13
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| Phartrin's Estates could be in the pratice of convincing property vaule is lower, perhaps with illusions. Also might gather information on order to blackmale existing owner. The art og negotiation Drow style. Any land broker has to do the light work and have enough protection that another will not wipe them out. Information can be best protection, a few tricks without protection extremely foolish. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 20:41:09
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Ok, this is a beta version of how Phertrin's Estates works:
Let's suppose that an earthenware merchant arrived from Ched Nasad with his family (equaling five, for example) and wants to buy a house in Eastmyr (middle/upper-midle class).
He visits Phartrin's Estates and after describing what (more-less) exactly he would like to buy (rent actually), he is directed to an inn working with Phartrin's, where he can stay while Phartrin's agents look for suitable locations and gather info about them (typically not more than two days). At the same time Phartrin contacts the House which owns the parcel(s) with said buildings and describes the situation. After evaluating, whether the deal would be profitable the House decides to "legalize" the deal. - If not, Phartrin contacts the merchant announcing that, sadly, none of the desired houses is for sale and tries to convince him to buy a different, currently available one. -
When all that is done succesfully, the merchant is taken on a tour to see the houses (outside only, but they usually have interior plans obtained by magic or through hired rogues). If a choice is made, the merchant is told to wait one, maximum two days (if the location is inhabited of course).
During that time Phartrin's employees (usually there is a Priestess among them) contact the current owner of the house and announce, that House So-and-so is in need to possess this building, for which he will be recompensated (with some laughable sum). If the owner brings profit to the house he is usually given a choice of other houses which he may purchase, if not, well that's his problem.
So, how's that now ?? Better ??  |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
Edited by - Torkwaret on 01 Feb 2006 20:43:53 |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 16:09:07
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It`s just a house. I don`t think there will be many problems if the Player has enough money.  |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 19:54:52
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| If your party doesn`t contain any paladins then here is a way: select a nice house and gut the owners quickly and efficiently. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 03:45:26
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Well some good aligned are indeed in the city from time to time, though I clearly agree a Paladin would not last long at all in that city.
As for Phertrin's Estates business model I do mot srr a Prestess of Lolth being a member of such an organization. Having one such Priestess would make her leader of a House, a very minor House to be sure. A Prestess of another then Lolth certainly might work for an organization like described, though would have to pretend to be a Lolthian Preistess. The best posible source of course would be a Priestess of Vhaeraun. Though even she should be acting for a House or leading one. I still think information is best way to go with for Phertrin's Estates. In part clearly knowing the area, the buildings and about the owners. They should be in position, IMO, able to provide the best deal for all concerned. More likely inflating the claims on both sides of the bargin and making little extra profit on a deal.
Something like this.
To current owner: I know of somebody that wants this house and offers 5,000 gold ans asures your protection from finding out about how you got this land in the first place.
To purchaser: I know just what you are looking for a fine house, it is worth 10,000 gold, but I might be able to deal them down to 7,000 for a feee and you leave all the details to me. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 11:05:47
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Aaahh...good, good
The Priestess I mentioned would belong to the house which owns the parcel, to make sure everything goes the way they want it to |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 04:45:45
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| Hello everyone! I'm running a campaign set in Menzoberranzan, and was wondering if there's a list of inns and taverns anywhere. I didn't see any listed in my boxed set. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Also, looking for a really nice place nobles would go for discreet meetings with lovers, or the equivalent of the Jade Jug. Thanks again! |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 06:27:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
Hello everyone! I'm running a campaign set in Menzoberranzan, and was wondering if there's a list of inns and taverns anywhere. I didn't see any listed in my boxed set. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Also, looking for a really nice place nobles would go for discreet meetings with lovers, or the equivalent of the Jade Jug. Thanks again!
There are some inns described in the boxed set, unless my memory is off.
Try this page too: http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/underdark/index.html
EDIT: Sorry, an unnecessary dot at the end. The link works now. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
Edited by - Zireael on 08 Jan 2011 11:38:25 |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 07:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
Hello everyone! I'm running a campaign set in Menzoberranzan, and was wondering if there's a list of inns and taverns anywhere. I didn't see any listed in my boxed set. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Also, looking for a really nice place nobles would go for discreet meetings with lovers, or the equivalent of the Jade Jug. Thanks again!
There are some inns described in the boxed set, unless my memory is off.
Try this page too: http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/underdark/index.html.
Thank you and I'll look again. I know one was mentioned, for staying low profile in the adventure book of that set. And sadly, the link lead me to a 404 Error.  I appreciate all your help, Zireael. Also, isn't there a drow city headed up by males, or was that something I heard someone talking about that didn't know what he was saying? |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 11:50:35
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Thank you for fixing the link, Zireael. I really appreciate that. I'll keep looking, and see if I can find the list of taverns and inns there.
Kept getting timed out, sadly. Sorry for taking so long to reply. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
Edited by - Penknight on 08 Jan 2011 11:51:32 |
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Real Estate in Menzoberranzan ??
