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Pardan
Acolyte
31 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 01:14:58
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In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?
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Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 01:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Pardan
In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?
I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Pardan
Acolyte
31 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 01:42:12
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| Oh, cool...just what I needed ;) |
Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 03:10:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Pardan
In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?
I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms
Actually, the Dragonking is first mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric has continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes the connection to the Far Realm...
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Edited by - The Sage on 30 Dec 2005 03:12:00 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 20:32:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Pardan
In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?
I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms
Actually, the Dragonking is first mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric has continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes the connection to the Far Realm...
The Dragonking does indeed tie back to write-up of the Dragonking's Eye in VGtATM, but the original reference is the 3rd of the Marco Volo modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I don't really recommend that trilogy of modules, but they are part of canon Realmslore, so I tried to work with them some more. You can find them here for free: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 22:08:52
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Page number?
From City of Splendors that is. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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martynq
Seeker
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 15:43:31
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
... the original reference is the 3rd of the Marco Volo modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I don't really recommend that trilogy of modules...
I always felt that the major problem with those modules was the ending. The final conclusion is extremely deus ex machina and leaves little for the PCs to actually do. Really rather disappointing and I felt there had to be a better way to finish it.
Martyn |
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Pardan
Acolyte
31 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 16:59:22
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| So that leaves the question - what IS the dragonking? Just an alien godlike presence from the Far Realm or something else altogether? And what does he have to do with dragons? |
Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 14:47:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Pardan
So that leaves the question - what IS the dragonking? Just an alien godlike presence from the Far Realm or something else altogether? And what does he have to do with dragons?
After reading page 63 (Thanks Sage) they give you enough rope to hang yourself..or enough clues to come up with a good campaign hook. Which I think it was meant to do. |
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Vvornth
Acolyte
Sweden
48 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 16:36:49
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| I'd say that the info is vague enough for this entity to be a king AMONG dragons himself. In anycase, it's an obvious hook not really meant to be explored all too exhaustively in official supplements. |
It's good to be king |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 06:00:41
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Why not a vaguely dragon-shaped entity from the Far Realm?
Perhaps the only way those who have seen the Dragonking can describe him in "normal" terms is that he looks like a dragon? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 06:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Eremite
Why not a vaguely dragon-shaped entity from the Far Realm?
Perhaps the only way those who have seen the Dragonking can describe him in "normal" terms is that he looks like a dragon?
I find it unlikely that anything directly coming from the Far Realm would have such an definitive form.
It's more likely that the "dragon" aspect of the Dragonking entity is merely a physical representation formed by the limited laws of reality on the Material Plane.
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 08:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage I find it unlikely that anything directly coming from the Far Realm would have such an definitive form. It's more likely that the "dragon" aspect of the Dragonking entity is merely a physical representation formed by the limited laws of reality on the Material Plane.
Sounds like a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other".
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 14:15:12
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| Hmm . . . a draconic entity from the Far Realm? I would give him tentacles on his shoulders and multiple eyes . . . at the very least. I think a lot of resturaunts in the Far Realm require tentacles to get in, in fact . . . |
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Pardan
Acolyte
31 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 19:10:34
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| Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your input (though my players might get to hate it ;))! |
Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 10:24:39
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| Eh, please excuse me for asking this. It was mentioned in the Cos manual, that the Dragonking was defeated by Correllon Larethan, Sune, Tyr. So how did he drew the attention of these three deities specifically and why did this three deities so happened to stop him when other deities could had opposed him and yet took no action? Just thinking. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 15:39:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Hmm . . . a draconic entity from the Far Realm? I would give him tentacles on his shoulders and multiple eyes . . . at the very least. I think a lot of resturaunts in the Far Realm require tentacles to get in, in fact . . .
Just hope and pray to every god you can think of that Cthulhu isn't the matre'd. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 15:56:47
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| That whole Corellon, Sune, and Tyr thing is just one more reason that the 2e adventures aren't really on anyone's top ten list. While some of the concepts are cool, in the end, those three just pop out of no where to "defeat" the Dragon King. There wasn't much explanation about why those three were involved, if I remember correctly, unless I missed something. |
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Rocheval
Acolyte
21 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 02:30:23
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Sorry to bump this relatively old thread but the is a mention in a letter sent by Vangerdahast to Elminster in Forgotten Realms: Adventures hardcover acessory (1990) where Vangy writes (summarizing the Time of Troubles),
"The note from your Dragon-King ally in the furthest East is of equal interest, though I view his opinions with a great deal of suspicion. While I would like to believe that all the Eastern deities retreated to some mountain top and meditated quietly until the crisis had passed, other tales I have heard indicate that there was as much godly meddling there as here. The Shou spirits and gods have always been mired up to their hips in intrique. The fact they have a more organized hierarchy does not reduce their meddling. Your dragon-friend's assurances aside, I would say that the unknown East suffered as much as Faerun; with more space and less value on human life), it was less noticed."
I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr? Anyway, like it was mentioned above, the hooks are just left-overs from the 2nd edition that were never followed through on and on a side note doesn't Vangy's little comment seem a little prejudiced?
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"I will vanish into the night; change my body to wood or stone; sink into the earth and walk through locked doors. I will be killed many times, yet will not die" excerpt from Ninja No Chigri (Way of the Tiger series) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 02:32:37
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| I am almost 100% certain this was a reference to an aquaintance of Elminster's from Kara-Tur. The reference to meditating deities has to do with what the Celestial Beuracracy dieties were said to have done when cast down to Kara-Tur during the Time of Troubles. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 03:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocheval
I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr? Anyway, like it was mentioned above, the hooks are just left-overs from the 2nd edition that were never followed through on and on a side note doesn't Vangy's little comment seem a little prejudiced?
I doubt they were the same entity. The dragons of the Kara-Tur are totally different than the ones of the Heartlands. And so far as I know, there have been no connections between Athas and any other world. TSR was not big on doing the setting crossovers. I only know of a couple of them, and they involved either Spelljammer or Ravenloft. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 04:47:47
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I have two comments and two questions to add to this thread.
First, it's definately two different "dragon kings," and unrelated to Athas. The only crossovers with Athas I know of are one from Planescape (a Dark Sun adventure), and one from the Baldur's Gate CRPG (which breaks so many rules, I don't even know where to begin).
Second, in the Marco Volo adventures (which had a lot of potential until the very end), it's mentioned that the Dragon King was a god, or uber-god, from another plane that made war upon, well, everything. He was at last defeated by an alliance of mortal mages (who became the Wands family), various other goodly forces in that plane, and three gods. That, in a nutshell, is its backstory. It's supposed to be hideously powerful.
My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?
And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 04:54:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr?
There is no connection. Recall the Gray, and recall also that planar travel, in fact nearly every type of inter-cosmology travel between Athas and the rest of the multiverse, is barred.
This type of question has been asked on DS boards before -- and the answers are usually all the same. The names are simply a co-incidence... nothing more.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 05:11:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?
Sune isn't an interloper deity. Ed's Down to Earth Divinities in DRAGON #54 tells us that Sune was inspired by Aphrodite.
I have a "sometimes" theory however that Sune may in fact be a separated aspect of Aphrodite and interloped with her sister Tyche, into the Realms.
quote:
And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it?
The Far Realm is a Lovecraft-inspired realm of madness. Its most recent detailing was in Manual of the Planes 3e. It received several mentions in the older lore... mostly in relation to illithids -- The Illithiad being a prime example of this.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 10:46:01
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| There was also a fairly recent issue of Dragon that had some Far Realm stuff in it, though I can't recall the number right now. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 13:25:25
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| Thanks. Never having read Lovecraft, and liking my planes the way they are already, it's no wonder I was confused (though I did read the Illithiad, so there I have no excuse). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 17:41:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The Far Realm is a Lovecraft-inspired realm of madness. Its most recent detailing was in Manual of the Planes 3e. It received several mentions in the older lore... mostly in relation to illithids -- The Illithiad being a prime example of this.
Also see Heroes of Horror, Lords of Madness, and the Epic Level Handbook. |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 03:44:30
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| The Far Realm was a creation of Bruce Cordell. I'm pretty sure that its first mention was in the rather good/possibly excellent 2E adventure, The Gates of Firestorm Peak. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 05:44:20
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Aye... it was -- to both statements.
The Illithiad is a particularly fascinating account as it utilises the Realm of Madness of "a" basis for illithid origins.
Actually, now that I think about it... I used that entry to write a series of journal entries here at Candlekeep about two years ago, telling the tale of the first demihuman explorers to enter the Far Realm. I'll have to take a look in the archives... as I don't think I ever did finish them.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 17:36:15
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| Gates of Firestorm Keep I do have, though I haven't read it in years. I think I need to dust it off. Thanks. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Dragonking...
