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martynq
Seeker
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 09:56:54
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There is now a multitude of Prestige Classes spread amongst numerous sources. I'm assuming many Realms DMs would allow the PrCs in the DMG and in FR sourcebooks. But what about other sources (e.g., the Complete series, the older Sword & Fist (etc.) series, Dragon magazines, etc.)?
Which prestige classes do you definitely permit (and how did you tie them more to the Realms)? Which did you ban and why?
(Thought it would be interesting to hear people's views!)
Cheers,
Martyn
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 10:12:22
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I myself tend to be fairly flexible on what PrCs/Races and such that I allow in my Campaigns.
As long as the Character isn't completely at odds with the setting (things like Draconians, or Knights of Solamnia.
Take my current campaign for example.
One of the players is a Catfolk (Miniatures Handbook and Races of the Wild), which I allowed with no problems, there are times where he will have some social problems, but nothing major has happened in that way yet.
He asked if he could have the Whisperknife PrC (Races of the Wild, Halfling only), and after taking a look at it, I ruled that he could learn it.
He is a rogue (that tends to throw daggers), and his Guildmaster is a Halfling that he is currently on the good side of. I never gave hard stats to the Guildmaster, but now I will give that particular NPC levels of Whisperknife so the player's Catfolk can have a teacher.
The only PrCs that I really restrict are those specific to a God, Nation, World, or Organization.
Character backstory and current actions also affect my decision on allowing things too. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 13:06:02
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I generally allow any prestige class that WOTC puts out. If they are tied to a world, god, or organization outside of FR than I the PC and I work together to modify it so it fits.
A couple of,
Fist of Hextor = Fist of Bane
Radiant Servant of Pelor = Radiant Servant of Lathander
Temple Raider of Oldimarra = Temple Raider of... Mask (???)
If the Player and I couldn't come up with a "Realmsian Fit" than I wouldn't allow it.
I am a little more strict when it comes to races. I pretty much stick with races that already have a place in the Realms. I did allow somebody to play a Half-Giant (XPH) and made some history for them being created in Thay by Red Wizards. One character has also played a Half-Ogre (Races of Destiny) which I have never read any lore on but it would make sense that they exist.
As for Raptorans, Goliaths, Illumians, Xephs, Catfolk, and others of the like....I have not allowed them to this point but nobody had asked. For some reason I don't think I would allow these races, with the exeption of possibly Goliaths. I have a weak spot for races of stone and usually try to incorporate them. |
Edited by - Chosen of Bane on 21 Dec 2005 13:07:19 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 14:04:24
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CoB, do you have Champions of Valor yet? Its got a section on how to fit Raptorans, Goliaths, and Illumians into the Realms. Might be worth checking out.
As far as PrCs go, I usually will work with someone to use generic ones, and even if there is a "generic" organization, I will try to work on how it fits into the Realms. One of my players wanted to play a Daggerspell shaper, so I came up with an organization dedicated to Lurue and based out of a tower on the Northwest edge of the Moonwood that is similar to the organization described in Complete Arcane.
On the other hand, I don't convert many god specific ones even when they have near Realms equivilants, mainly because there are often Realms specific ones that more completely cover the god's aspects in the Realms. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 14:27:58
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
CoB, do you have Champions of Valor yet? Its got a section on how to fit Raptorans, Goliaths, and Illumians into the Realms. Might be worth checking out.
I do have Champions of Valor but I kind of skipped over that part because I wasn't too interested. If one of my players really wanted to play one of these races I would take a look and try to work it out. I hate to say "no" to a player unless there is a glaring problem with it.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
On the other hand, I don't convert many god specific ones even when they have near Realms equivilants, mainly because there are often Realms specific ones that more completely cover the god's aspects in the Realms.
I agree with you for the most part. The examples I posted above are just what I thought of immediately for easy transitions, nobody has actually ever played one of them in my games. As you said, the Morninglord is a better representation of a Lathandarite than the Radiant Servant, so just use that, etc...
But I do think sometimes a conversion is appropriate. The Fist of Hextor (Bane) is one of these cases. I like the idea of having a PrC that's devout but not a divine caster. The Dreadmaster is the closest prestige class too it in the Realms with its frightful presence but that is not an option for a fighter. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 14:36:46
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I generally let people go with what they want - however, most of my players are none to interested in any PrCs. I kind of like the idea, but since a lot of my players are grudgingly playing 3E (they're hardcore 1E'ers that still use the titles), they generally just play the straight class - and none of the accepted variants, either (aka Sorcerer).
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 16:44:45
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I figure its easier to say what we've banned and why than be generic about what we haven't. I've only banned a few classes/prestige classes. However, the ones I banned were as follows:
Classes: Warlock (reduce their damage and they're more playable, but as written, not on your life. Also, specify what kind of dmg they do with their blast so that it doesn't rip through everything. I love the concept behind it though. It just needs more work.)
Prestige Classes:
True Necromancer from Libris Mortis: reason, the whole point of the mystic theurge is you never get your 9th lvl spells and you don't get many 8th lvl's either. You also don't get any special abilities as a theurge... just extra spellcasting. The true necromancer gets spellcasting in both classes, the 9th lvl wail of the banshee, and all for taking things they would have probably taken anyway. The only semi-strict thing in the prereq's is having the death domain (lessee, necromancer-priest... who would they worship). Some would say that this is designed as an NPC class so it should be ok, but I know other designers will look at this for comparison for a PC class.
Incantatrix from Player's Guide to Faerun (or earlier versions): Sure, you have to give up a 3rd school of magic if your a specialist(which is bad, yes), but standard mages and sorcerors just give up a single school (say enchantment)... but you get 4 metamagic feats in 10 levels (wizard would only get 2). You don't give up any spellcasting. Plus, you get a bunch of nifty extra abilities (instant metamagic would let you persist 2 9th lvl spells a day, improved metamagic) for free. The class is nice, but it needs some toning down or stricter ruling for non-specialist wizards (mages and sorcerors make out like bandidts).
Radiant Servant of Pelor (from Complete Divine) - any healing spell they cast starts being automatically empowered & maximized. Doesn't sound bad till you use that heal spell on the lich or vampire NPC. That plus, there's already a Lathanderite PrC.
The CG paladin of freedom in Unearthed Arcana- people only take it for the 2 levels to get divine grace, and they figure as CG they can do pretty much whatever they want as long as its not evil. I allow the 2 evil ones however.
Those are the ones that come to mind immediately. I'd love to hear others that are banned by other people and why.
anything from the dragonlance books. I remember looking at 3 prestige classes (forget which) and seeing problems with them. After that I told my players those sourcebooks were off limits.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 17:12:13
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| A lot of the DragonLance one work within the setting, since many who play there only get the core rulebooks then the SP books, so there are a lot of overlap issues with existing prestige classes and general core PrCs, so generally, I ignore Krynn classes and the like outside of Krynn. |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 17:17:43
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I have never banned anything. If a player can come up with even the most stretched reason to be able to play a class or race starting out, I have no problem...
But i Have no problem restricting them from being able to not find someone to train them in the abilities of any particular PrC.
I tend not to allow people to multiclass into classes that rely on inherent powers/ abilities (Barbarian,Sorcerer,Warlock) without some serious role play. Such as spending 2 years with the barbarian tribes, meeting a dragon to awaken your dragon heritage, or going into a bargain with some powerful creature to gain the warlocks powers.
I figure that as GM it is my responsibility to make sure the players all have fun. And if they want to explore some strange combination...I need to roll with it, and incorporate them into the game. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 21:56:42
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<<< I have never banned anything. If a player can come up with even the most stretched
<<< reason to be able to play a class or race starting out, I have no problem...
I could never be like this. While I think WotC is doing a very fine job at maintaining balance (a lot better than TSR ever did), I do notice that every once in a while they just don't see through the glitz on a class well enough and push it out. A good example of this is the Spellsword prestige class. In 3.0, you had to actually consider whether you wanted to go into the class because the first level you lost a spellcasting level. In 3.5, you get your +1 base attack, your spellcasting level, go up by 2 in both fort and will, and get the 10% reduction in arcane spell failure at 1st lvl. So, if you were taking a level of fighter to go eldritch knight, there's no reason not to dip into this class for a single level. This can be fixed by putting the 10% arcane spell failure reduction at 2nd lvl... or they could have put the spellcasting starting at 2nd lvl. Easy enough fix, but there are some classes even worse.
Other times they're so much in a rush to put product out that they don't realize that something doesn't make sense. They fixed a lot of these in the 3.5 complete books now. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 01:18:09
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| Prc's have gotten crazy, in my opinion, they are everywhere. I usually let my players use any they come across, as long as they can justify it being there. I also will let them come up with variations of a PRC as long as it is similar to what is in existance, remains balanced and once again they can justify it being used. |
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jean-loup
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 02:29:58
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| in my campaign i accept only prestige class from the realms because i think the background of many class of codex for exemple don't go well with the realms but i take libris mortis for exemple and some class like corsair or hin fist i know that's make a poor choice for fighter because the realms 's class mean for many a spellcasting class |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 03:28:41
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
Temple Raider of Oldimarra = Temple Raider of... Mask (???)
This is actually more of Tymora PrC than a Mask one.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was just trying to think of Generic PrC's named after deities and quickly decided upon their counterpart, I didn't really look into the classes before I posted.
However, I do know that most of them can be adapted to the Realms pretty easily. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 14:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
Temple Raider of Oldimarra = Temple Raider of... Mask (???)
This is actually more of Tymora PrC than a Mask one.
Well, if you went for it from an Indiana Jones point of view, it might be Oghma or Deneir - for the knowledge portion.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2005 : 00:51:28
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| I try and let them play what they like, as long as it's Realmsian or we can work out how to make it so. But I try to take things on a case-by-case basis. There's nothing I'd completely rule out from the off. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Sadonayerah Odrydin
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2006 : 01:32:22
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Darn my luck...digging up old threads again! 
In the campaigns I've been in and run, we never really banned anything. Though in my Underdark one, I had rule that you had to be a certain race. But PrC never were an issue. In fact, my epic character (Zorin) is three different ones. A dwarf that was in my campaign had two. A few other characters had some interesting ones too.
The main PrC we used were:
Drunken Master
Tattooed monk (2 characters)
Master Thrower
Bladesinger
Prime Underdark Guide
there are more...I just don't remember them since it's been a while since I've played. Though the next character of mine is going to be an Undead Hunter.
I tie them to the Realms based on what diety they have, the campaign being run, and what the character's background is. That's the key to the games I'm in. The characters, if unusual (like my boyfriend's dwarven monk) have to have a reason and background. It's kind of a house rule I guess. |
"What's that," asked Mogget.
"Sardines," said Sam. "I knew they were standard rations, so I got a few tins for you."
"What are sardines?" Moggest asked suspiciously. "And why is there a key? Is this some sort of Abhorsen joke?"
Abhorsen by Garth Nix
"What you made a vampire...Pomeranian?!" --Hannibal King from Blade Trinity
~Sadie |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2006 : 03:27:56
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Hello-
I'm a newbie when it comes to v3.5 - and with no 3.0 experience - thats pretty new! :)
That being said - as far as the PrC's go - I would expect (as a DM) to be somewhat lenient - as long as things make sence.
As far as races go - I am somewhat less open-minded. I also don't think I would allow many of the races from the Races books - and again becaouse of a soft-spot for stone-ish races - with the possible exception of the Goliath. That - and being as secluded as they are - it would be easier to integrate them into the realms than some of the other races.
My big issues is with PC alignment. I don't allow Evil alignments into my games - and - shudder almost as much at CN, which is almost like being Evil - but with a 'get out of jail free card' if you decide to be nice! :) LOL I am - of course - basing this on some previous bad experiences - but thats all I reall have to go by. I suppose that it could change if presented with a good character concept - but it would have to be Good! LOL That - and I have enough trouble trying to get people to make characters that are not all solo-types - or that someone wants to play an elf that is the 'quintessential' Aloof and Snobby to non-elves type of elf. Egads it has been difficult at times!
My current game (*still in planning stages*) has a fighter from Calimshan, a halfline rogue from Lurien, and an elven Ranger from - well - some woodsy-place! Luckilly - I have ideas to get them together (*along with an NPC healer-type*) - which should not be so bad -a s they all have reasons to be wandeirng far from home - so I *could* start them nearly anywhere!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Generic PrCs in the Realms?
