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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe

Norway
377 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  13:18:57  Show Profile Send Elfinblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Can trolls drown? And die from it? this is something i `ve been wondering about since we encountered that kind of problem in our campaign. If anyone can answer this it will be appreciated :)

KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  13:29:28  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the SRD:




Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.
Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.




Since suffocation means that a creature is dying from not breathing, I would say that trolls can indeed drown.

Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 17 Nov 2005 14:07:10
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Kentinal
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4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  13:47:02  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My quick answer is no they can not down, following much the same reason lack of food and water does not kill.

Now I will look at the SRD 3.5 to see what backs up or changes my answer.

quote:
Fire and acid deal normal damage to a troll. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.


quote:
Regeneration

Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.


quote:
Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. It doesn’t matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.


Now suffication normally will kill and underwater there is no air, the damage is nonlethal for a troll or most regenerating creatures. It may not make sense however lack of food and water does not kill either in the game.


"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon

Edited by - Kentinal on 17 Nov 2005 13:48:28
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Kentinal
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4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  13:55:41  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

From the SRD:



Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.
Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.


Since suffocation means that a creature is dying from not breathing, I would say that trolls can indeed drown.



But it is nonlethal damage, *wink*

Yes reduced to 0 hit points can occur, however one needs to get to -10 lethal damage to die. After 0 one is in effect attacked by the water which (unless in a pool of acid) is nonlethal. A troll can have -100 points of nonlethal damage and not die. The troll however will be unconscious and will remain so as long as under water. If it gets out of the water it can not regenerate but can heal the damage by geting a days rest.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:06:10  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SRD:






STARVATION AND THIRST
Characters might find themselves without food or water and with no means to obtain them. In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.) In very hot climates, characters need two or three times as much water to avoid dehydration.
A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.

SUFFOCATION
A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.
When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.
Slow Suffocation: A Medium character can breathe easily for 6 hours in a sealed chamber measuring 10 feet on a side. After that time, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage every 15 minutes. Each additional Medium character or significant fire source (a torch, for example) proportionally reduces the time the air will last.
Small characters consume half as much air as Medium characters. A larger volume of air, of course, lasts for a longer time.




I guess my main problem is essentially this would mean that Trolls don't need to breathe, which I don't think is the intent behind the ability to regenerate. First, under the description for suffocation, the only thing that is mentioned as far as hit point damage is that they fall unconcious, then they drop to -1, then they die . . . I think the -1 hit point is not from "hit point damage" but to show that the unconcious person is dying and must be stabilized at this point. If you want to argue that a troll at this -1 stage dragged out of the water starts to regenerate again, I can buy that, but the next stage does not say that they fall to -10, but that they suffocate.

Also, starvation and thirst do constitution damage, which goes around regeneration, thus they should be able to die from this as well.

The only reason I make these points is without some limits, Trolls should have overrun Faerun a long time ago.

But I look forward to any further discussion on this, since its not written as clearly as it could be.

Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 17 Nov 2005 14:08:54
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Khaa
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USA
80 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:11:05  Show Profile  Visit Khaa's Homepage Send Khaa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, going by the rules in the core books, no they cannot die. If i was running a campaign though, If it was not a sea troll, it would die eventually from drowning. I couldnt let them be imune to something like that.

Ever want another forum? Well try out www.icewinddale.com
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:27:13  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Also, starvation and thirst do constitution damage, which goes around regeneration, thus they should be able to die from this as well.

The only reason I make these points is without some limits, Trolls should have overrun Faerun a long time ago.

But I look forward to any further discussion on this, since its not written as clearly as it could be.



Starvation and thirst do not do constitution damage, a constitution check is there however failing it means there is additional nonlethal damag. The consitution is not reduced because a Con check is failed, all that occurs is the Con check gets harder to meet.

That is RAW, I would house rule that any of these conditions will do Con damage in addition to or as a replacement for nonlethal damage.

Yes it appears logical that trolls will drown, suffocate and drown however nonlethal damage never kills as per the rules. Yes it causes a problem that trools are very hard to kill there again how many are subjected to such hazzards of lack of food, water or air? Most of the trolls I see killed are by fire, less often acid. *Grin*

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:36:40  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry about the starvation thing . . . too cold this morning, my brain must be frostbitten, though I still stand by my interpretation of suffocation.

Interestingly enough . . . no one can die due to starvation or thirst the way that is written . . .
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:39:40  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And by the way . . . most of my opinion is just that. Regeneration is kind of a strange ability as described in 3.5, and I'll not claim any particular mastery over knowlage of it. Its just a combination of my reading of it and my gut feelings.

A regenerating predator that is only killed by fire or acid is a nightmare to any ecology. The only balancing point I could think of is that trolls like swamps and so do black dragons . . .
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore

USA
1378 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:42:25  Show Profile Send Crennen FaerieBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I go with KEJR - I think that Trolls can die by suffocation. But, if you guys still want to know, you should direct your questions to one of our esteemed colleagues over in the Sages forum.

C-Fb

P.s. - By not letting trolls die, that opens all creatures with regeneration to not drown. This is because the pathways destroyed by lack of air would continually rebuild, causing a very vicious loop.

Still rockin' the Fey'ri style.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  14:49:45  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Suffocation does offer a better arguement, however we are still looking at nonlethal because not fire or acid damage (thus not lethal damage) to get to the -1 lethal damage the round before dying.

quote:
Interestingly enough . . . no one can die due to starvation or thirst the way that is written


Yes I noticed this some time ago which was the foundation for trolls not drowning, because of nonlethal damage is never able to kill. Trolls only take lethal damage from only two things as the rules are written. *wink*

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  15:00:07  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane

I go with KEJR - I think that Trolls can die by suffocation. But, if you guys still want to know, you should direct your questions to one of our esteemed colleagues over in the Sages forum.

C-Fb

P.s. - By not letting trolls die, that opens all creatures with regeneration to not drown. This is because the pathways destroyed by lack of air would continually rebuild, causing a very vicious loop.



Oh I am sure all of us think they should die and I expect most DMs would kill. The problem is that the rules do not support them dying.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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hooper101
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  17:08:51  Show Profile  Visit hooper101's Homepage Send hooper101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do they have to breath? If so they die!

Die, die, die ,die, die, why won't you just die you silly dragon!
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  17:49:11  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is nothing in Troll description that says they have to breath *Grin*

Though they are giant type which has these traits.

quote:
Giant Type

A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size.
Features

A giant has the following features.

* 8-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
* Good Fortitude saves.
* Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

A giant possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* Low-light vision.
* Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as any natural weapons.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Giants not described as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Giants are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Giants eat, sleep, and breathe.



But we then need to consider regeneration and what is nonlethal damaage. Nonlethal damage never kills. A person that is unconsious because of a lack of food or water will not die because of it. If not found and either killed or fed the character will die of old age, as per how the rules are written.

This of course is a bug in the rules. There is not anything that directly says a troll needs to breath. As I said before most if not all will say it dies, just nothing in the rules say regenerating creatures die from lack of air. They die from lethal damage acid and fire, oh they might die if their head is cut off as well but that can be open to debate if they need their head. *Grin*

quote:
the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off.


Again nothing in the troll description indicates it needs its head, though a giant type normally does need its head to live.

Oh found this under troll
quote:
An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.
so I guess you can not even kill a troll with a vorpal sword (now a flaming vorpal sword might be able to kill a troll by cutting its head off.

The problem is there is no text that indicates a regenerating creature needs air and there is text that nonlethal damage never kills. RAW trolls do not need air because lack of air does not cause lethal damage, only fire and acid does.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  18:12:43  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This reminds me of the recuring gag that Rich Berlew brought up in Order of the Stick when he keeps brining up that the rules never mention that you have to sleep. Some things just aren't spelled out as clearly as they could be.

Although I would say that being decapitated wouldn't neccissarily kill it outright, but that without a head it can't breathe, and so it begins the process of suffocating. Then I guess the body starts moving around looking for the head. Of course, if it has average constitution for a troll, it has 46 (!) rounds to pick up its head and reattatch it before it starts to suffocate.

Since it takes 3d6 minutes to regrow a body part, its head could potentially regrow before it starts to have a problem with suffocating, since it can hold its breath for seven and a half minutes, though its probably safer for said troll to just pick up its head and put it back on than hope that it doesn't take the full 18 minutes for its head to come back.

Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 17 Nov 2005 18:13:37
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  18:15:54  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*LOL*

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  18:21:16  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, indeed, if trolls weren't voracious eating machines capable of tearing most things limb from limb, they would be a pretty amusing creature to observe in the wild . . .

"What's that noise . . ."

"It's just a headless troll looking for its head, no big deal."
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  18:23:36  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to mention how amusing it is to think of people without food or water stumbling across Anauroch, taking subdual damage, sleeping, then getting up and staggering for a while, the whole time reassuring themselves,

"Well, at least I only take non lethal damage from thirst and starvation."

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Kentinal
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4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  19:05:31  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Not to mention how amusing it is to think of people without food or water stumbling across Anauroch, taking subdual damage, sleeping, then getting up and staggering for a while, the whole time reassuring themselves,

"Well, at least I only take non lethal damage from thirst and starvation."





"Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage." So the resting 8 hours does not work to get accross Anauroch. Yes there is a gap in the rules here. Oh as far as sleeping goes there is the requirement of 8 hours of complete rest. Depending on race sleep is clearly indicated to be complet rest. The elves being only core race that do not need to sleep, but even they need to rest 8 hours.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  19:15:18  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

Oh as far as sleeping goes there is the requirement of 8 hours of complete rest. Depending on race sleep is clearly indicated to be complet rest. The elves being only core race that do not need to sleep, but even they need to rest 8 hours.



Elves need only 4 hours of rest. 8 to recover spells.

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D20 Modern System Reference Document

Edited by - warlockco on 17 Nov 2005 19:15:51
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  19:56:52  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So you could literally sleep for however long as your life span is for, as long as you don't care about being concious . . . the point being its a little strange, lol.

The point about sleep that Rich Berlew made was that sleep is never defined as a state outside of the sleep spell. I'll have to look up what exactly he said, but his point was that some things are not spelled out becuase they should be common sense.
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Kentinal
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4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  20:08:41  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

I'll have to look up what exactly he said, but his point was that some things are not spelled out becuase they should be common sense.



The rule set often defies common sense. *Grin*

It is not a Real World thing where considtantly a 20 level Fighter can walk away from a 100 foot fall. Injuried yes dead very rarely.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Belthor
Seeker

USA
52 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  20:19:06  Show Profile  Visit Belthor's Homepage Send Belthor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So does all of this mean that if a Black Dragon crossbred with a troll, the offspring could only be killed by fire since it would then be immune to death by acid? I'm so confused.

If the rest of humanity were only as smart as my familiar......
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Kentinal
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4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  20:33:04  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Belthor

So does all of this mean that if a Black Dragon crossbred with a troll, the offspring could only be killed by fire since it would then be immune to death by acid? I'm so confused.



Well cross breeding rules are even harder, but if a half-troll half Black Dragon offspring recieved both regeneration as a troll and Acid imunity as a Black Dragon, the RAW does appear to indicate that yes only fire can kill. *wink*

There off course are the issues of what troll blood and dragon blood confer. Of course a Troll taking Dragon disiple of Black Dragon the answer is clearer.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  20:57:38  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hm . . . what about a fiendish half dragon troll . . . ugh . . . my head hurts . . .
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Kentinal
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4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  21:06:22  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Hm . . . what about a fiendish half dragon troll . . . ugh . . . my head hurts . . .



Naw they only get damage reduction and resistance, a fireball can still do lethal damage (just not as much per round) *Grin*

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore

USA
1695 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  22:47:35  Show Profile  Visit warlockco's Homepage Send warlockco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Belthor

So does all of this mean that if a Black Dragon crossbred with a troll, the offspring could only be killed by fire since it would then be immune to death by acid? I'm so confused.



Well cross breeding rules are even harder, but if a half-troll half Black Dragon offspring recieved both regeneration as a troll and Acid imunity as a Black Dragon, the RAW does appear to indicate that yes only fire can kill. *wink*

There off course are the issues of what troll blood and dragon blood confer. Of course a Troll taking Dragon disiple of Black Dragon the answer is clearer.



Half-Black Dragon War Troll.
War Trolls take Lethal Damage only from Acid, compared to other trolls, and are also Monstrous Humanoid instead of Giant for some reason.
Tacking on Immunity to Acid, they take only non-lethal damage, still other ways to kill them, just have to be methodical is all.


Also drop a big enough of a rock on the troll, he won't be going anywhere.

News of the Weird

D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document

Edited by - warlockco on 17 Nov 2005 22:48:18
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hooper101
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  22:50:43  Show Profile  Visit hooper101's Homepage Send hooper101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
HUMANOIDS NEED TO BREATH! Unless it specifically says they don't is that not logical?

Die, die, die ,die, die, why won't you just die you silly dragon!
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hooper101
Learned Scribe

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  22:51:57  Show Profile  Visit hooper101's Homepage Send hooper101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Although give that troll half blck blood and maybe he can stay in the befouled water of a swamp drowning longer than the pcs can stay there.

Die, die, die ,die, die, why won't you just die you silly dragon!
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  23:26:09  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hooper101

HUMANOIDS NEED TO BREATH! Unless it specifically says they don't is that not logical?



But is all the game logical in the first place? D&D has some rather illogical abiliteis, events and surviviblities that logic says canm not occur. Also pay scales are not logical, however the world still exists.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2005 :  23:27:47  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco




Also drop a big enough of a rock on the troll, he won't be going anywhere.



Yup, just wait for them to die of old age. *wink*

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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