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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 01:28:39
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Since I find Avatars just as appealing as the Gods that they serve, what novels are there that "showcase" Avatars?
Example: What Book does Mystra's Avatar appear a decent amount? (Again, example. Don't know if one exsists like that.)
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"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 01:38:24
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Elminster's novels, she appears the most. :) Except of course the ToT's novels.
BTW, 3/3.5e material kinda screwed with some of the deities because if they don't have the avatar SDA, then they can't have avatars. Like Azuth for instance, he had avatars that have met with Elminster but per the new rules as written it's impossible. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 01:44:09
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Tis rather odd. I thought all deities essentially could, if they wishes, have an avatar or two (or more.)
But I wasn't just asking about her, just Avatars in General. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 01:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Tis rather odd. I thought all deities essentially could, if they wishes, have an avatar or two (or more.)
But I wasn't just asking about her, just Avatars in General.
They could until 3/3.5e changed that, now if they don't have the SDA they can't. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 06:21:51
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Holy Hullabaloo! You're right Kuje! I never noticed that before now!
I don't like that one bit!
IIRC, they used to could have 10 avatars under the old rules.
Under the new rules it requires the use of an SDA, it takes a year to create and minimum of DVR 6. Wow! That is some serious nerfing!
Now up til now I have generally liked what I have read of Deities and Demigods, and I have appreciated what they were trying to do by codifying the rules for gods, although I haven't needed to use the mechanics and so I had not read through the book too closely. It's not in my character to criticize the good folks at WotC or the designers of 3E, and I don't think anyone can ever site an instance of me complaining about a change they made from 2e to 3e. But I finally found one I don't care for.
I am a little stunned at this one. I have always thought of gods as these transcendent beings that would require an avatar(s) in order to interact with mortals.
Hmmm, they have seriously changed that for 3E, and I am having difficulty wrapping my brain around that for the moment! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 06:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Holy Hullabaloo! You're right Kuje! I never noticed that before now!
I don't like that one bit!
IIRC, they used to could have 10 avatars under the old rules.
Under the new rules it requires the use of an SDA, it takes a year to create and minimum of DVR 6. Wow! That is some serious nerfing!
Now up til now I have generally liked what I have read of Deities and Demigods, and I have appreciated what they were trying to do by codifying the rules for gods, although I haven't needed to use the mechanics and so I had not read through the book too closely. It's not in my character to criticize the good folks at WotC or the designers of 3E, and I don't think anyone can ever site an instance of me complaining about a change they made from 2e to 3e. But I finally found one I don't care for.
I am a little stunned at this one. I have always thought of gods as these transcendent beings that would require an avatar(s) in order to interact with mortals.
Hmmm, they have seriously changed that for 3E, and I am having difficulty wrapping my brain around that for the moment!
Yup. :) I've had this debate with someone on the WOTC boards before and it turned heated. It's a silly and odd change that added another nail that I hated to FR's retcons. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:22:15
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It's part of the reason I tend to disregard Faiths & Pantheons.
Personally, I think that that retcon sucks out a lot of the flavor of the gods. They've always been able to manifest at least one avatar in the past, but now they have to take a special feat to do it? Bah, I say. I think that all deities should have that ability as a built-in feature of their godhood.
So out with the 3E deity rules, in with the 2E rules.  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, I think that that retcon sucks out a lot of the flavor of the gods. They've always been able to manifest at least one avatar in the past, but now they have to take a special feat to do it? Bah, I say. I think that all deities should have that ability as a built-in feature of their godhood.
Yes, forgive me, but if and when I become a God one day, I prefer to think that I won't have to worry about "Gee, I hope I have this feat before I do this action." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, I think that that retcon sucks out a lot of the flavor of the gods. They've always been able to manifest at least one avatar in the past, but now they have to take a special feat to do it? Bah, I say. I think that all deities should have that ability as a built-in feature of their godhood.
Yes, forgive me, but if and when I become a God one day, I prefer to think that I won't have to worry about "Gee, I hope I have this feat before I do this action."
If you do become a deity, I'll be sure to send you a copy of my newest book, Godhood for Dummies. That should help you learn any feats you need.  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Apr 2005 17:03:10 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 17:31:06
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, I think that that retcon sucks out a lot of the flavor of the gods. They've always been able to manifest at least one avatar in the past, but now they have to take a special feat to do it? Bah, I say. I think that all deities should have that ability as a built-in feature of their godhood.
Yes, forgive me, but if and when I become a God one day, I prefer to think that I won't have to worry about "Gee, I hope I have this feat before I do this action."
Ditto to both of you, which is why I stick with the 2e rules as well. And don't get me started on the damn one step rule. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 19:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you do become a deity, I'll be sure to send you a copy of my newest book, Godhood for Dummies. That should help you learn any feats you need.
Great, I'm a God, but I get to read a book filled with a bunch of crunch apparently.
Being a God would suck then. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 22:41:43
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you do become a deity, I'll be sure to send you a copy of my newest book, Godhood for Dummies. That should help you learn any feats you need.
Great, I'm a God, but I get to read a book filled with a bunch of crunch apparently.
Being a God would suck then.
Not if you were the God of Crunchiness.  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 23:35:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not if you were the God of Crunchiness.
There are lines and you just crossed one with me. 
So, unless you wish me to sic my avatar down on you... |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 00:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not if you were the God of Crunchiness.
There are lines and you just crossed one with me.
So, unless you wish me to sic my avatar down on you...
What Avatar? You don't have that special ability ;) |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Sholnfete
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 04:39:59
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| That's odd for it gives avatar descriptions in Faiths and Pantheons so I had assumed it was the same as always. Anyway why not just play 3/3.5 and do what you want, if I want my deities to have avatars then they have avatars; books are too limiting. |
We live in a bleak world my friend, where heroes are few and shadows stalk us from every corner. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 04:45:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Sholnfete
That's odd for it gives avatar descriptions in Faiths and Pantheons so I had assumed it was the same as always. Anyway why not just play 3/3.5 and do what you want, if I want my deities to have avatars then they have avatars; books are too limiting.
Only the deities that have the avatar SDA have avatars listed in that sourcebook. You'll notice Azuth doesn't have info on avatar's in that book since he doesn't have the SDA. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Yggdrasil
Acolyte
Thailand
12 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 05:11:00
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 I've never notice that before, I feel like just knowing santa doesn't exist once more  |
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before.
-Mae West |
Edited by - Yggdrasil on 17 Apr 2005 05:11:51 |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 05:37:51
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Kuje you better double check you character sheet and make sure you have that feat before trying to sick it on Wooley. ^_^
I also disagree with that ruling, magically all my gods got the ability to create Avatars. Except for the one's not known to have one which was I think like ONE god I can't even recall the name of at the moment. |
We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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Songrimm
Acolyte
Germany
38 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 01:47:39
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I dont know for sure, but arent the gods supposed to appear in avatar form when they go to the cyronosure(sp?), becaus they must manage their day to day work in the meantime?  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 01:53:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Songrimm
I dont know for sure, but arent the gods supposed to appear in avatar form when they go to the cyronosure(sp?), becaus they must manage their day to day work in the meantime?
The Player's Guide just says that the deities can go there. It makes no mention of thier avatars, so by this I assume the deity itself travels there if they have no avatars.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 05:39:06
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by Songrimm
I dont know for sure, but arent the gods supposed to appear in avatar form when they go to the cyronosure(sp?), becaus they must manage their day to day work in the meantime?
The Player's Guide just says that the deities can go there. It makes no mention of thier avatars, so by this I assume the deity itself travels there if they have no avatars....
Of course, if the majority of the deity's essence is presently engaged elsewhere in some dire situation and cannot presently access the Cynosure, I suppose an avatar form could be utilised.
But this would be highly unlikely.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 05:49:10
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| I was under the Impression that only lesser powers and above could create avatars ie even back in the days of 2ed Demi Powers when they appeared where ALWAYS the God themselves as lacked lacked the power to create Avatars (or have their own Home plane) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 05:59:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Of course, if the majority of the deity's essence is presently engaged elsewhere in some dire situation and cannot presently access the Cynosure, I suppose an avatar form could be utilised.
But this would be highly unlikely.
But what if they don't have avatars? :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 06:01:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I was under the Impression that only lesser powers and above could create avatars ie even back in the days of 2ed Demi Powers when they appeared where ALWAYS the God themselves as lacked lacked the power to create Avatars (or have their own Home plane)
Nay, Faiths & Avatars, page 17, "Most demipowers can use but one avatar at a time." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 08:26:51
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Of course, if the majority of the deity's essence is presently engaged elsewhere in some dire situation and cannot presently access the Cynosure, I suppose an avatar form could be utilised.
But this would be highly unlikely.
But what if they don't have avatars? :)
I suppose if a deity become truly desparate, he or she could always send a proxy  .
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 18 Apr 2005 08:27:40 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 16:30:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
But what if they don't have avatars? :)
I suppose if a deity become truly desparate, he or she could always send a proxy .
Cheap! But I guess I'll let that slide :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 05:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
But what if they don't have avatars? :)
I suppose if a deity become truly desparate, he or she could always send a proxy .
Cheap! But I guess I'll let that slide :)
Seriously though, if a situation was so dire as to necessitate the attendence of all powers in the Realms, Ao would surely have some method of contacting all the deities in Realmspace even if they could not manifest an avatar.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 05:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Seriously though, if a situation was so dire as to necessitate the attendence of all powers in the Realms, Ao would surely have some method of contacting all the deities in Realmspace even if they could not manifest an avatar.
'Tis a good point. I don't think Ao would let someone duck out of one of his staff meetings with an excuse like "Sorry, big guy, but I can't attend until I learn this feat..."  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 06:01:38
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I wonder whether I can use that as an excuse to avoid my meeting today at work...
"Sorry Boss, don't have the SDA for that, I took Divine Blast instead. Can you wait another three levels?" |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 06:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Seriously though, if a situation was so dire as to necessitate the attendence of all powers in the Realms, Ao would surely have some method of contacting all the deities in Realmspace even if they could not manifest an avatar.
'Tis a good point. I don't think Ao would let someone duck out of one of his staff meetings with an excuse like "Sorry, big guy, but I can't attend until I learn this feat..."
Thinking about this further, if Ao truly is a neutral entity, I suppose he could make use of 'translators'. Translators, first introduced in the PSMC I, are shining silver spheres about 3' in diameter that carry important messengers for the powers of neutrality. They can speak in any language, and exist primarily to serve the powers.
If Ao needed to quickly relay an important message about an impending event to many of the demigods or other lesser powers, he could send out groups of these translators who then ferry the message to each of the domains of each power.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 06:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
I wonder whether I can use that as an excuse to avoid my meeting today at work...
"Sorry Boss, don't have the SDA for that, I took Divine Blast instead. Can you wait another three levels?"
Let us know how that works out for you. |
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Avatars
