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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 03:56:35
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Currently giving Book 3 of Ed's "Shadows of the Avatar" trilogy another read through and am up to the huge battle between the forces defending Mistledale and the Zhent Sword of the South.
My reading has piqued my curiousity regarding Ed's depictions (mainly in novels but also in some gaming products by way of non-game mechanics references) of spellcasters boosting the power of their spells by giving of some of their lifeforce in the casting, or even their lives.
Is there a feat of any description in the non-FR rulebooks that depicts/mirrors this? If not, I was wondering about a "Bloodcasting" feat ...
As anyone who knows me will attest, my grasp of actual game mechanics is okay, but sketchy in terms of having an understanding of game balance. In thinking of such a feat, I thought that an extra 1d6 damage per hp spent (up to a maximum of 10 hps/10d6) would be okay and if you didn't want to boost damage you could boost area of effect or duration. I know that there are other metamagic feats that do the latter but they require higher level spell slots to function. The "Bloodcasting" feat doesn't require you to use the higher slots, it just needs hps ...
What do the loremasters of these hallowed halls, think?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 04:06:28
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Well,in reading what I have of the 3E supplements, I don't recall any feats similar to that, however if it hasn't been developed it is an interesting concept for sure. I think something more like 2hp/1d6 would probably be a little more balanced, with a maximum as you stated of 10d6. 1hp/d6 just seems a little to inexpensive and would be something used with too little consequence too often. I mean, 10d6 is alot of potential dmg, and a cost of a mere 10hp would be nothing to a caster of any level above 15th. and at lower levels the cost wouldn't seem much, as it's easily replaced with a pot'n of minor healing. at 2hp's / d6 if someone wanted to take the 10d6 a cost of 20hp to most casters is more significant, and something they'd actually have to take real consideration of. I think anyhow.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 04:13:36
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It's certainly an intriguing idea, George. In fact, it sounds a lot like the current 'augmentation' system for the expanded psionics system. It is, essentially, what you are trying to do here, only the PC has a resource of power points to draw upon.
quote:
Is there a feat of any description in the non-FR rulebooks that depicts/mirrors this? If not, I was wondering about a "Bloodcasting" feat ...
I can't recall it's exact name, but there is a feat within the Dragonlance setting (mainly for the Wizards of High Sorcery -- but possibily adaptable for FR) that allows for much of what you've described here. I'll have to check my books when I get home...
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 04:26:11
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| I guess you could create a system where you can "Empower" a spell by Sacrificing some of your XP (in effect trading part of your life force for an enhanced spell) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 04:40:56
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I think I like the idea of lost HP more than XP, HP lost poses more of a challenge in battle, than lost XP, and if your going to risk HP for more dmg in a spell, it's probably because your afraid if you don't take the smaller hit to hit them harder, they'll hit you hard, and you won't survive the encounter. It makes it more of a difficult decision I think. Although thats merely opinion.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 04:52:59
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| Well if George wants to use HPs I suggest he cheks out the Book of Vile Darkness as theres a Sadist or Masocist Feat/spell that does that |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 04:57:13
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Indeed? I'll have to look that up once more. It's been a few months since I looked over the BoVD. all in all, I think this is an interesting concept for a feat to be used by spellcasters.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 05:55:10
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The Dragginglance feat is called Reserves of Strength. You increase your caster level by up to 3, but you're stunned for an equal number of rounds. If you're not subject to being stunned, then you take 1d6, 3d6, or 5d6 points of damage, instead.
I do like your idea, though... It kinda reminds me of the 2nd edition wu jen -- they had to do a direct trade of hit points for spells. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 07:15:29
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That's the one...
Looks like you had the chance to beat me to the post this time, Wooly .
As I recall, there's also a similar idea used in the Midnight setting, but there's an expanded ruleset to use along with the feat. It's a progressive system that allows the Channeler (there are no standard arcane spellcasters on Aryth) to gain greater benefits over time.
I'll have to look up that ruleset as well. It might be worth expanding upon to give George's idea a little more focus. That is, unless Wooly can beat me again...
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 08:18:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's the one...
Looks like you had the chance to beat me to the post this time, Wooly .
As I recall, there's also a similar idea used in the Midnight setting, but there's an expanded ruleset to use along with the feat. It's a progressive system that allows the Channeler (there are no standard arcane spellcasters on Aryth) to gain greater benefits over time.
I'll have to look up that ruleset as well. It might be worth expanding upon to give George's idea a little more focus. That is, unless Wooly can beat me again...
Nope, I can't beat you to the punch when I lack the necessary source.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 08:38:44
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Ah... Well, if that's the case, then I guess I can take my time. Although, I seem to recall that Arivia has the campaign setting back for Midnight. Maybe she can get to it, before I do...
It would be a shame to let this idea die...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 08:51:37
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| There's a d20 feat from Mongoose that lets you take Constitution damage for extra spell slots. It's not quite what's being discussed here, but it's close . . . . |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 09:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah... Well, if that's the case, then I guess I can take my time. Although, I seem to recall that Arivia has the campaign setting back for Midnight. Maybe she can get to it, before I do...
It would be a shame to let this idea die...
Uh..no.
I haven't...because I didn't pick it up. In fact, I have only a vague clue what it is. What made you think that? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 09:25:27
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Hmmm... I greatly apologise, Arivia.
I seem to recall a conversation here a few days ago wherein you brought up the fact that you'd purchased the Midnight campaign book. Obviously, I was mistaken...
Perhaps it was zemd...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 10:35:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Is it from one of the Quintessential tomes, Bookwyrm?
Yes. Quintessential Wizard I. (Which reminds me, I should ask you about QW2 sometime, as there are several things I found wrong in it that I wanted to make certain were updated.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 15:58:59
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Now, now! That would be highly off-topic, wouldn't it? 
Perhaps if you log on to MSN-IM sometime while I'm on sometime, I can discuss it. Or I'll write out an email if I find the time to go over the points . . . all it is is that I got my hands on QW recently, and you mentioned that there was a QW2 that updated some aspects. While I finished reading that tome, I kept wondering what was updated, and if the vague corrections I was having fly through my mind were in it.
(It wouldn't be the first time. I was shocked that many updates to the game Call to Power II included the same things I edited in the files of my copy of CtP1.  ) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 07:05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Now, now! That would be highly off-topic, wouldn't it?
Perhaps if you log on to MSN-IM sometime while I'm on sometime, I can discuss it. Or I'll write out an email if I find the time to go over the points . . . all it is is that I got my hands on QW recently, and you mentioned that there was a QW2 that updated some aspects. While I finished reading that tome, I kept wondering what was updated, and if the vague corrections I was having fly through my mind were in it.
(It wouldn't be the first time. I was shocked that many updates to the game Call to Power II included the same things I edited in the files of my copy of CtP1. )
I think it would be best to discuss the updates online. We both know my history with responding to emails...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2006 : 22:09:03
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Came across this while looking for another scroll...
George, if you're still interested in this, look at this. Yes, it's a long rules-heavy read, but excluding a few feats(I can remember one other, but not where it's from), it's the only system from WotC right now that includes that outside of the epic spellcasting rules. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 14:28:40
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| Sword & Sorcery had put out exactly this type of caster for their campaign world (forget the name). Basically, it was for their variation of a blood mage (which came out before WotC's version) who learned the power of blood magic by interacting with the blood of a titan (which a titan in said world would be about the equivalent of a greater deity). They had the ability to release blood and augment their spells through this. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 15:13:10
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How does this sound? I may not have written it that clear, but hey it's early in the day for me.
Bloodcasting [METAMAGIC]
You have become intimate with the the act of casting spells and are able to use your life force to augment the power of your spells on the spot by using your life force.
Benefit: As a free action, you can apply any one metamagic feat you already know to a spell (If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 action) you are casting by taking 1 point of constitution damage for every two levels (or fraction of) the metamagic feat would normally increase the spell.
Normal: Wizards and Divine Spellcasters chooses which spells to prepare with metamagic feats During preparation, Sorcerers and Bards must take more time to cast a metamagic spell than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. |
Edited by - AlacLuin on 26 Jan 2006 15:19:19 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 17:36:23
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That kinda reminds me of the version of the wu jen that was in Dragon 229... For casting spells, they were kinda like sorcerers with a seriously smaller spell list. Except for one minor detail: when a wu jen cast a spell, it took three times his level in hit points to power the spell. So a 3rd level spell would cost 9 hp. Magical healing was halved, too.
I really liked that version of the wu jen -- it remains my fave of the many incarnations of that class. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 17:46:33
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I personally do kinda like the Reserves of Strength idea for this. A constitution based sacrifice remains a sacrifice if you are 1st or 20th level. I also think a feat like this would be a good prerequisite type feat for other feats that might let you, say, empower or maximzie spells without upping their level, but burning Con. I can also see something in this feat tree letting you recast a spell that you have already expended again during the day, for a con cost.
And also, George, when I was reading that book, another thing occured to me. It seemed like if you were willing to sacrifice some of your life force (Con damage again?), you could stabilize magic in a Wild Magic area. I was thinking of trying to come up with perhaps a chart, with a check for spellcraft. A high enough result would let you stabilize a spell of X level for 1 con, up to X+3 for two con, etc. A mediocre roll would let you do the same, but for a higher con cost, and a failure means you just can't cast stable magic within that area of wild magic at that time.
Reading Ed's spell descriptions always get my mind reeling with different means to simulat them though. |
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Belthor
Seeker
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 19:28:20
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| I realize that I'm not nearly as well versed as most in the rules for this kind of thing, but wouldn't you need to be a certain level to even attempt this? Most spellcasters wouldn't even have enough HP or a high enough CON to try it until around fifth level I would think. Please correct me if I'm wrong. |
If the rest of humanity were only as smart as my familiar...... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2006 : 19:36:07
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| Considering it was Elminster and Sylune in the novels stabilizing the Wild Magic areas, I don't imagine it would be very easy, at least for the stabilization trick mentioned in the books. On the other matter, to boost spellcasting, well, it is kind of a desperation move on the part of a caster, unless they are indeed pretty healthy. |
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Wounds, Death and Spellcasting
