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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 14:09:29
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With my players ready to disrupt the everyday life of the 73rd Layer of the Abyss (the Wells of Darkness) i'm left wondering what may happen in consequence of their actions and what may be unleashed after the dust settles. This has me thinking about ways to involve the Wells' prisoners into my personal Realms continuity, for some it's been easy, for others it's a bit more tricky.
One of the tricky ones is Echidna, "Mother of Monsters", which should be fairly easy to slap into any fantasy setting, except for the fact i think many beasts "descended" from her have another genesis in the Realms.
Echidna is credited to have given birth to (generalizing, with some critters not lining up in D&D terms): hydras, Cerberus, chimeras, medusae, gorgons, harpies and sphinxes.
So the first question is, which of this monsters already has "known" genesis in the Realms?
The second question is, which other classical (or not) monsters can be added to the list without going against "already known" origins? Lamias? Manticores? Catoblepas? Some of the weird/unusual giant types?
The objective here is to find out for which monsters Echidna may rightfully claim to be mother and which ones her priesthood may try to lie about.
Thanks all!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 18:11:17
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Most of the standard D&D monsters don't have a Realms-specific genesis -- they just exist, without any real explanation.
In Spelljammer, a monstrous panspermia theory was suggested, with an ancient race called the Zookeepers. There's no reason you can't just go with that and a connection to Echidna.
Or perhaps a planar version of panspermia -- with all the gates to elsewhere, there could be a theoretical origin plane for most critters, and they've moved from that central point to further points.
2E was really the only edition to focus on monsters as more than just collections of hit points waiting to be converted to loot and XP -- monstrous origins just haven't gotten that much attention, unless setting-specific, and even that depends on the edition. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 22:41:41
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I prefer giving monsters and creatures multiple origins over the millennia of existence of the worlds and planes.
It's obviously a matter of personal preference. I favor a single, common origin because that makes explaining identical creatures on different worlds a lot easier. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2015 : 23:12:04
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| My preference is a single origin for monsters too. Gods or what have you have a "favorite" group of monsters that they place in various worlds...whether directly or via placing the knowledge in the minds of individuals to create them. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 00:07:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's obviously a matter of personal preference. I favor a single, common origin because that makes explaining identical creatures on different worlds a lot easier.
I thought the answer to that conundrum is fairly simple - gates.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 01:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's obviously a matter of personal preference. I favor a single, common origin because that makes explaining identical creatures on different worlds a lot easier.
I thought the answer to that conundrum is fairly simple - gates.
-- George Krashos
That's what I was saying -- we have gates, and those make the idea of a critter developing once and spreading from a central point a lot more plausible that these same improbable critters developing identically on different worlds. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 16:52:40
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I was thinking some of these critters may have had a Realmsian origin like shield dwarves of clan Duergar experimented upon by illithids and turned into duergars, owlbears created by Netherese arcanist, yuan-ti&Co created by the sarrukh, bullywug created by the batrachi, ecc... .
In absence of such lore i can pin the creation of this or that monster to Echidna somewhere in the Multiverse, so that now that her attention is turned on Toril she may rightfully lay claim on them without anyone having much to say. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 21:03:10
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Humans and demihumans also exist on multiple D&D worlds without much explanation. They just exist alongside the monsters which just exist. Their expected alliances and enmities also just exist.
Humans are an odd lot, evolved (or devolved) in a natural manner, created by a god or gods (over and over again, by different gods on different worlds), imported from other worlds, etc. Various planar rulebooks have defined parameters for planes and worlds in which a high-magic setting naturally (supernaturally?) tends to evolve a richer and more diverse variety of living things. One magical notch up from our own Earth might be a quasi-Earth filled with a robustly thriving biosphere and a dozen astonishing versions of each Earth species, perhaps a few of these might possess some minor magical ability but most would simply have more colourful plumage and bizarre behaviours than their counterparts on our Earth. The Realms is set in such a high-magic world, dozens of sentient humanoids and hundreds of semi-sentient monsters and thousands of unusual plant and animal species are just part of the package.
Dwarves often claim to all be descended from Moradin himself. Or perhaps they were pounded out on his anvil or something. So maybe they do indeed all share a common divine or extraplanar origin.
Elves are distantly linked to the Feywild, it seems like they've been "dropped off" and diverged from their Feywild predecessors/kin through various planar overlaps. All sorts of creatures and monsters (including goblins, oddly enough) seem to also be linked to the Feywild in this manner.
Orcs seem to be pervasive wherever dwarves and elves can be found, and all manner of interesting stories abound to explain their origins.
The nearly infinite planes of Planescape are also peopled with all these races, and many variations of these races, and all sorts of exotic races and hybrids. Gates are just one of many "naturally" occurring phenomena which permit plane-hopping and world-hopping. The activities of travelers, colonists, invaders, fiends, and celestials, and gods can synergize an impossible cosmic diaspora. Look to the histories of the gith races and illithids for just one example.
If you're trying to assess which monsters might be "natural" denizens of the lower planes then any monster manual will do. Actual origins of things are of little consequence when everything apparently originated somewhere else and could - in theory - be diverged or inbred or interbred or crossbred or relocated anywhere (again and again) through countless different mechanisms. Besides, demons are a wildly inconsistent lot and a fiend could conceivably have an appearance modelled after any other species in the cosmos whether it's exactly related or not. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 09 Dec 2015 21:05:34 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2015 : 17:11:51
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I believe you can easily say that Echidna is ancient Sarrukh which solves lot of your problems. First hydras are mentioned as made by them somewhere I think. You can also use her shaping ability to horrifying effect if they challenge her later.
To the origin - lot of gods claim they made their progeny.
In my realms all inteligent creatures were made by gods and animals were made by creator races (so all serpents and insects were made by sarrukh, all birds by aaocra, all fish and frogs by batrachi, all mamals and crosbreeds by fey) |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 04:25:34
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Aranea are supposedly created by some Calimshan archmage... if you believe him.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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The origin of monsters
