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Bane of the Harpers
Seeker
Canada
53 Posts |
 Posted - 14 May 2014 : 20:00:18
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Hello!
I am planning a military campaign and wanted to know if a Faerunian city, ideally in the South, had the reputation of being impregnable?
Thanks for your help!
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 20:46:52
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| Calimport (at least pre-Spellplague, I know nothing of its 4e iteration). Not only does it have millions of people it it, but the way the various areas are divided by walls would force any invasion force that managed to gain entry fight for every alley and street in the city. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 21:03:25
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I don't know of any city being impregnable simply because of the use of magic.
Calimport is a hard city to take...unfortunately simple Siege/Blockade would break a city that is so large because of a lack of food. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 21:17:14
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There is a factor of siege that magic can offset, crate food and water. Also many cities would have allies that likely would march to break a siege.
However maybe more on topic http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Calimport appears to indicate the city was taken a few times. A history of never defeated might be written by the winners of power struggles, when facts actually was a rebellion or invasion was successful.
There are many examples of a war ending with a marriage in which the invader becomes part of the royal family so that in fact it can be written as a normal succession a few years later. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 22:11:31
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Skuld ? (capital of the third mulhorandi empire)
PS: I don't use the 4 edition |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2014 : 22:29:15
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Most human cities and castles in Faerun have seen invasions or unrest of some sort that prove them weak to conquest. They tend to last though, so I consider most big cities in Faerun to be pretty expertly defended. Dwarven strongholds I'd expect to be particularly famous for being hard to besiege. I'd consider the creations of cities building through powerful magic to be the hardest to take though. The defence of such a city can utalize its magic to add defences or resistances to sieges that can vastly outscope and outsize what any mandane siege can muster. Imagine what refitting an ancient netheril enclave (and its mythallar) or imascari stronghold (and its extradimensional chambers and walkways) could lead to. An example of this would be Spellhold, that used to be a netheril enclave that had secured a permanent magical watersupply.
I would consider the size and thickness of Castle Waterdeeps walls (18meters thick) and the magic defences on Castle Waterdeep to be highly defensible. Combined with their mobile defence (hippogriff riders and resident adventurers) the city watch's 1400 men combine into a near impregnable defence from outside forces. Its massivly extensive dungeon carved out of Mount Waterdeep has proven a problem though.
Darkhold (giant built bastion), Castle Krag (Cormyrian outpost) and Ashhold (natural basalt stronghold) are pretty nice examples of well chosen strategic spots to fortify, but they are all hardly impregnable.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 07:46:18
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A smaller place can use magic to offset the needs of food...but Calimport and other large cities have no such recourse.
You don't have to defeat a kingdom's army...you just need to make its citizens hungry. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2014 : 11:06:40
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Regarding Calimport, going off the top of my head and without checking the sources i think the city fell to external forces only twice: against the Rose Dragon and against a beholder army, hardly the kind of foes that one would consider conventional. What destroys Calimport each century or so are plagues, fires and internal strife.
In the 1370s one has to consider that Calimport is the center of intrigue for the Twisted Rune, the Knights of the Shield and the Rundeen, three organizations very powerful in different ways on their own and so anyone wishing to conquer the city will probably face retaliation from mercenary armies bought with loads of coins, murderous pirate fleets and the machinations of epic level liches and all their web of influence. Also the military fleet of Calimport is nothing to scoff at so blockading the city (keeping in mind the Rundeen run most of the pirate activities in the Shining Sea and profit from Calimport being a free mercantile port) is nearly impossible.
Regarding Skuld, yeah, the city hasn't been taken in 3500 years (give or take some) but i think that has more to do with no one trying than the city actualy withstanding sieges. From the 1e Old Empires write-up i got the impression of a very weak (militarly) city: soldiers only at the gates and mercenaries too and port city without a navy. Of course Skuld is full of temples and priests and religious militias of slaves and fanatics, but i don't know how much value that holds against a determined army backed by Red Wizards magic (just to throw in the traditional foe that would pounce on Mulhorand at the first sign of weakness).
If you are really searching for impregnable cities i suggest pretty much anything in Harluaa (where they can just say "bam magic!" and wipe entire armies) or the dwarven city in the Great Rift (loads of traps, a great wyrm sized portal to fool invaders, a determined and big dwarven army and griffon mounted aerial cavalry).
For something less completely overpowered i suggest Ormpur in Lapaliiya: the civic deity is Tiamat and the city defenders have a pact with some families of chromatic dragons that lets them have dragon mounted cavalry and thus the city was never conquered by the armies of Serpentes, by the Shoon Imperium (they reached a diplomatic agreement, with the Shoons that were rolfstomping everyone else in the region) and by the nomads of the Shaar. [Some infos are available in 3e Serpent Kingdoms and maybe in previous sources too] |
Edited by - Demzer on 17 May 2014 11:08:49 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 11:27:30
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With regard to Calimport, I'm having a flashback to Casablanca: "Major, there are certain parts of New York that I would not recommend you invade."
Calimport can probably be taken. But I doubt it would be feasible to hang on to it. If the fires do not get you, the plagues will. If the plagues don't get you, the population will. And if the population does not get you, well, there's always the Night Parade... |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2014 : 15:57:31
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| This isn't in the South, but I can't imagine anybody capturing Xxiphu from the aboleths. And if you could capture it, you would probably just go insane. Also not a city, but Warlock's Crypt is impregnable to anything short of a god. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 11:02:29
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| I remember something about Skuld never been taken. pre-spellplague that is. I have no knowledge of 4th ed. Evereska is also very difficult to siege! They have high level defenders plus magical protectins beyond count. |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 31 May 2014 11:03:36 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2014 : 15:48:06
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In earth's history there have been examples of fortified peninsulas or islands that repelled enormous odds during sieges (see Bamburgh in the UK or Fort St. Elmo in Malta.
Several of Faeruns river and/or coast cities have some forms of defence resembling these castles. Baldurs Gate and Waterdeep have excellent defensive resistance to naval sieges. In Baldurs Gate Baldurans Seatower is located on a island in the river, and has excellent view of of all riverbanks and Baldurs Gate harbor. Waterdeep harbor is protected by the Deepwater Beach, the entrances to the harbor behind it protected by its flanking Chain Gates studded by the numerous watchtowers. Their navy has its own harbor with even more fortifications in place.
Luskan has a similar feature. Luskans navy is situated on the northbend of the mouth of the river Mirar, with in their case a Seatower on a rocky islet in the rivermouth. But beware, 'cause it's the Host Tower of the Aracane too! I can only imagine what nightmares seacaptains have to face when they need to take Luskan in a naval siege...
Citadel Felbarr/Many Arrows has a nightmarish gauntlet of defences against sieges. Two gates, an about 4000 ft walk along two defensive watch areas, ending in a runed gate on the first northwall into the mountain city proper, with numerous heavy ballistae and catapults and rune traps everywhere. Its probably better to assault the city from the Underdark, by breaching mines that lead to the mountain city. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2014 : 14:18:20
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Another type of city conquerers need to heed carefully are military outposts that house a state's army.
Some states give smaller towns only meager defences (think a town watch of only about 60 men for a town with thousands), in the understanding that the state army can march to its defence. Athkathla, Crimnor and Esmeltaran have relative little military workforce, instead relying on Amns mercenary armies and the stationed force in Eshpurta.
These citadels are usually stationed with fast infantry and cavalry, apt in responding to threats with aggresive sorties and counterattacks. Amn is largely organized like this, with Athkathla and its surrounds protected by the military stationed in Eshpurta, a city-citadel of 22000 inhabitants located in Amns eastern mountain vale.
Elturgard also has Elturel, from which the 200 strong tormtar mounted heavy cavalry, the Hellriders, can ride forth to the aid of the various Chiontar riverlands settlements within a day or two's reach (including Berdusk, Scornubel, Triel and Thundars Ride). Elturel itself is situated on a highhill in next to the river, with the Highhall on the peak of the cliff, the hills rise protected by a highwall with two bastioned gates. Its port is further fortified by the massive temple 'Helms Shieldhall' nearby. |
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 02 Jun 2014 14:56:13 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2014 : 15:26:52
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Lastly (perhaps  ), sieges can be severly restricted by terrain and season.
For example high up in Faeruns mountains and during winters, heavy snow and cold forms a challenge for any armies trying to stay in the field. It takes specially trained troops, cold weather outfits and versatile gear and weaponry to take any military actions. One needs to heed for avalanches, rockslides, ambushes from higher up, sheer cliffs and fatigue. Citadel Adbar in the Silver Marches' Ice Mountains is a fortress accessable high up in the mountains. Apart from the trade road the dwarven fortress visible to most human eyes is nearly permanently covered in snow. The largest chimney of the city is protected by Dragonspikes (tall towers that have repelled numerous dragons) but would be permanently free of snow because of the cities massive prodction of hot air from their forges. Citadel Adbar proper (with its countless draw- or collapsing bridges, concentric walls and ditches that can be filled with flaming oil) survived a siege of over 10 000 orcs with ease.
Spring season is usually also not ideal. Mud has slowed down or completly stopped ground movement of armies. East Cormanthor Forest is unpassable in spring. Because of all the thawing in the Moonsea areas, surplus waters overflow the area in an attempt to empty into the Dragon Reach, with the river Lis outgrowing its banks on a massive scale. Some towns might order a river village to start diverting a river with a canal, inundating the fields surrounding a walled city. In the Moonshaes this is taken a step further by elves. Karador is a magic fortress in the middle of a lake capable of limited planar movement to and from the Feywild, so the citadel appears to rise or lower from the middle of Lake Myrloch on the island of Gwynneth. Its starelven(?) forces took control of the Isle in a matter of months.
Summer is usually the season for war. But in areas with hotter climes its best avoided, unless you prepare for dehydration and sand. Sand can slow groundmovement and can make mechanical devices fail (with catastrophic effect if not careful), dunes can slowly swallow settlements and sandstorms are potentially lethal. The ruins of Ascore shows what encrouching desertification (and loss of the Narrow Sea's acces) does to a city. Standing siege armies in deserts are exposed to even harsher conditions than the besieged.
Fall or rain seasons usually combine with lots of decay, so drinking waters have more bacteria and diseases can spread fast. In some areas the flora and fauna can carry deadly diseases or poisons. The city of Mezro in Chult had a magical wall that repelled creatures by a confusion effect, and thusly formed a sanctuary in the otherwise heavy jungle terrain. Anything trying to siege the city had to deal with this invisible barrier while being beset by the (sometimes confused) dangers of the jungle itself. Rain seasons make large parts of these jungles partly into disease ridden swamps, as the river Olung exceeds its banks and widens its river mouth suddenly and massively. Some elven raised forest fortresses employ local predators and fey as shock troops. The on average 300ft high fortress Suldanesselar in the Forest of Tethir has pacts with centaurs, satyrs and animal spirits and their following, that harrass any invading armies tangling amongst the tree trunks.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 04 Jun 2014 16:22:22 |
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Toughest city to take
