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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2014 : 19:00:41
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I just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on this topic considering the DnD Encounters season, etc.
Now, I know that there was going to be a novel written based on the game that got cancelled but then the Grand History made explicit mention of the Wailing Death (though not how it was cured nor if the Neverwinter/Luskan War occurred. It also includes a map of Netheril that includes Undrentide from the game's first expansion. Then we get two official adventures published set in Neverwinter which involve the grand neice of Aribeth de Tylmarande, one of which makes explicit reference to said war.
We also had Murder in Baldur's Gate which made tonnes of references to the Baldur's Gate games (not the novels, just the games).
I have always treated the content of official adventures as a kind of B-canon, in which events very similar to those written about occur, just not exactly as described, however several adventure and sourcebook writers seem to think that everything written down is gold.
What do you guys think of official adventures and the status of CRPGs in canon, especially in regards to content written about them after the fact?
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When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2014 : 19:31:56
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Unofficial except any elements that the pnp game/novels decide to pick up.
Actually I'm wondering what happens to Neverwinter Online now that we're moving into the post Sundering era, aka 5e? |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2014 : 19:33:16
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
We also had Murder in Baldur's Gate which made tonnes of references to the Baldur's Gate games (not the novels, just the games).
How can you tell whether it's referencing the game or the novels?
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2014 : 20:09:10
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Anything in an adventure that isn't a variable, i.e. something for the players to resolve, ought to be considered canon Realmslore.
Yes, this leaves the door open for weirdness, but you have to take the good with the bad.
Regarding Computer Roleplaying Games: 100% not canon, unless or until a paper product (e.g. a novel, sourcebook or adventure) verifies or includes elements from the CRPG. And in the later case only those specific elements are canon.
CRPGs are created by third party developers, are not done in house at WotC and so, given WotC's proclivity for ever shrinking staff and oversight of Realmslore, can't be considered reliable or trustworthy sources of Realmslore.
This may all fly out the window if or when WotC launches a Realms-wide MMO, but I still wouldn't consider it to be canon until I got a real good look at ithe thing first. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 09 Feb 2014 20:11:03 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2014 : 06:51:50
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| I don't think what the OC does is canon but some elements of the game itself is canon. Look at NWN2 Storm of Zehir. From a game into the setting, Zehir was an interloper in more ways than one. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
231 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2014 : 08:48:19
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When I play an RPG video game (especially with one that takes place in an already established setting) I always look at it as if it is a retelling of the actual events. Think of it as if a historian who collected varying accounts of the events and put it all down in writing... now you are reading that book.
There are exaggerations, biases and miscommunications in his writing. The small details are not always correct but the general facts are. There was a Wailing Death, there was a cleric of Tyr called Aribeth de Tylmarande and an evil priest called Desther (or something like that), there were big battles, some sarrukh were involved and powerful magic was thrown about and Neverwinter was saved by a "hero".
This serves to explain game mechanics and other silly things like one man being able to solo entire battalions of soldiers and face down fearsome dragons and liches by himself.
That's how I like to see it.
The official word? I would go with what Gyor says. But I often prefer to see it in various layers of canon similar to how the Star Wars universe works.
EDIT: To word it all better...
Personally, I like the idea that the games are historical fiction books that are popular with the general populace but lambasted by scholarly groups denouncing it as poor representation of the events that happened in the timeline, filled with unbelievable events and characters. |
"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
Edited by - Light on 11 Feb 2014 06:29:00 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 03:32:03
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it's only canon if it has a book on it, it makes a cameo in a novel, or a mention in a splat book. Otherwise its 3rd party licensed lore, and if it's your table and if you want it canon, then its canon.
that said, not to rain on Bioware but Neverwinter Nights had some major lore issues. You got to axe valindra in it... you dont axe major npcs of any area in a video game without the consent of the setting's owner.
further more they used Obould, we all know Manyarrows was busy raising a ruckus in the silver marches during the time the game was happening.
and then there was neverwinter nights 2...... it had its issues too, namwely the mistake between wotc and Obsidian on the issues between Neverwinter not surviving intact like OEI was led to believe as well as forgetting the fact that nwn2 was not a 4e game and brought in an interloper that needs to meet up with Bhaal and Bane and then just die. ( or at the least banish him to Abeir where he belongs)
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 21:38:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
How can you tell whether it's referencing the game or the novels?
It used art obviously based on that found in the games and it makes several references and even cameos of NPCs who didn't appear in the books. Minsc has a statue up in the city but it's clearly depicting his game incarnation and not his novel incarnation. The only thing referencing the novels is Duke Adrian's name - and that could have had something to do with the first expansion's save file which named the bhaalspawn as 'Abdel'.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Actually I'm wondering what happens to Neverwinter Online now that we're moving into the post Sundering era aka 5e?
Cryptic only have a licence to develop the so-called 'Neverwinter Campaign Setting' so unless that is further developed at some point during 5e by WotC, Cryptic won't have the ability to go into the post Sundering era. I assume that the same is true for DDO regarding its expansion from Eberron into Cormyr.
As to your responses so far: the solution of discounting CRPGs as canonical is something we've been doing on the wiki for years - it prevents arguments by providing one clear answer to the issue.
It just seems to me that WotC's writers seem to disagree with this standpoint. That's what concerns me. Killing recognized NPCs in the Neverwinter Nights OC didn't matter because they appeared in novels written AFTER the game was released but other game elements are appearing more and more frequently in written works. The lore on Maram of the Great Spear written by Matt James in Dungeon Magazine for example is originally based on an excerpt from the Pool of Radiance game manual - Matt says that he was introduced to the FR by that game. The aforementioned niece of Aribeth has appeared in works by Erik Scott de Bie. Is this an aspect of the FR's future? |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 11 Feb 2014 21:42:14 |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 18:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
It used art obviously based on that found in the games
Since the novel doesn't have art, that's not much of a point.
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
and it makes several references and even cameos of NPCs who didn't appear in the books.
Which ones would that be? I tried to delete my memories of these novels with much alkohol
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Minsc has a statue up in the city but it's clearly depicting his game incarnation and not his novel incarnation.
How can you tell? As far as I am remembering he hardly had any "screentime" in the novel, so there is no real novel incarnation etablished
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Neverwinter Nights OC canonicity
