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 The Halls of the Hammer
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2013 :  20:50:40  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
This was brought up once before (and George was of course right; the bit in Volo's Guide was repeated in the North) but I don't see any identification.

Did the Halls of the Hammer have another name, when it was still a dwarf-hold?

Was it part of a larger kingdom, or was it an independent hold?

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2013 :  20:08:34  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the information on the Halls of the Hammer is pretty standard - its an abandoned dwarfhold that has been explored many times.

However when reading my information about the Hall of Four Ghosts it says.

"The dwarves built several fortresses to retreat to, for protection if attacked while working in the woods. Most are lost and overgrown, but those known to men include The Stronghold of the Nine and Hammer Hall."

Infer from that what you will. It could be that the fortresses were part of a well connected kingdom with tunnels linking the fortresses together across the north. Or it could be that these fortresses were independent holds that never united into a kingdom but relations were good enough that they allowed tunnels between the fortresses.

The only information I have on the Stronghold of the Nine is that it was a dwarven outpost, smithy, and armoury created by dwarven allies of Earlann.

The information could be interpreted as the outposts of a fledgling kingdom or independent holds. Whatever you would prefer I guess.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2013 :  01:21:45  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hammer Hall is not the same place as the Halls of the Hammer, and The Stronghold of the Nine began as a dwarven outpost, but acquired its name when the dwarves expanded it under contract to the famous human adventuring band known as the Nine (of Crown of Horns and Ed's ELMINSTER MUST DIE novel fame; Laeral was a member), to provide the Nine with a fortified underground home on the banks of the Unicorn Run.
The original dwarven outpost was "behind" (farther west, into the bedrock) from the newer complex created for the Nine, which was dug out as an expansion to the dwarves' original, hidden "back door escape route" passage to the riverbank.
There you go: instant Realmslore, drawn straight from Ed's notes.
love,
THO
P.S. It was always an independent hold, but relied upon Earlann for non-food supplies, information/news, and social contact. The term "outpost" refers to these ties with Earlann and the fact that it was the dwarves settling in an area long sparse of their kind, and so extending their presence and influence into this part of the surface world AND the underlying Underdark.

Edited by - The Hooded One on 27 May 2013 01:25:44
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2013 :  05:02:01  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hammer Hall is not the same place as the Halls of the Hammer


THO:
Thank you! But other than this first part, you're talking about the Stronghold of the Nine, right? On that subject, is the name of the hold you're describing blocked by NDA or just unknown/undecided? Orrr did the dwarves not name their outposts?

Edited by - xaeyruudh on 27 May 2013 05:39:12
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 28 May 2013 :  05:29:55  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.

I see parenthetical names in a few places on the so-called interactive atlas, notably:

Hall of Four Ghosts (Caddarak) - the name of the surface dwarven town that once stood here

Stronghold of the Nine (Caerilcarn) - that name is used by a group of elves who want to recreate Eaerlann? - connection unclear

And no parentheses on the Halls of the Hammer
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2065 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  17:42:15  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh

Or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.

I see parenthetical names in a few places on the so-called interactive atlas, notably:

Hall of Four Ghosts (Caddarak) - the name of the surface dwarven town that once stood here

Stronghold of the Nine (Caerilcarn) - that name is used by a group of elves who want to recreate Eaerlann? - connection unclear

And no parentheses on the Halls of the Hammer



A close reading of The North would suggest the dwarfhold known as the Stronghold of the Nine was called "Caerilcarn". However, looking how the word "Caerilcarn" is used in Lost Empires of Faerun, that clearly is not the name of the dwarfhold. It *might* be the name of the elven settlement, but I think that would be confusing.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  19:29:26  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yea, it is kinda confusing but I'm getting something that works (either correctly reading between the lines or else fabricating it).

The North (The Wilderness, pg 58) says "the newly-rebuilt Stronghold of the Nine and additional outbuildings, now collectively becoming called Caerilcarn by the elves that occupy it."

Lost Empires (pg 91) identifies "The Caerilcarn, a group of elves that proclaims itself the vanguard of a new Eaerlann..."

That suggests to me that Caerilcarn is the name the elves are claiming, and for whatever reason they're calling their camp by the same name. I suspect they have their own name for their refurbishment of the Stronghold of the Nine, but they're just not using that name in conversation with outsiders. Since Caerilcarn translates as "Council of the Wood" (Lost Empires pg 94) it's easy to imagine a misunderstanding on the part of any non-elf. If visitors are allowed to live (perhaps a big "if") they're probably greeted with some form of "welcome to Caerilcarn" which could easily imply that it's their name for the physical place when in fact the elves are welcoming you to a metaphorical place; a council. In humanized layman's terms. Alternatively, the place where this council is taking shape (currently this particular fortress but it might be elsewhere later on) is Caerilcarn, and the elves participating are introducing themselves by the same name.

Still leaves the question of what the dwarves called their outpost before the Stronghold of the Nine was added on. And of course the original name of the Halls of the Hammer.

Also: it's pretty cool to have a thread rezzed by you Eric. Thankya.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2065 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  20:05:40  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I came up with a dwarven name for the stronghold: Arvuddaern (literally "Stump Haven").

It makes sense for an idea I have.

--Eric

quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh

Yea, it is kinda confusing but I'm getting something that works (either correctly reading between the lines or else fabricating it).

The North (The Wilderness, pg 58) says "the newly-rebuilt Stronghold of the Nine and additional outbuildings, now collectively becoming called Caerilcarn by the elves that occupy it."

Lost Empires (pg 91) identifies "The Caerilcarn, a group of elves that proclaims itself the vanguard of a new Eaerlann..."

That suggests to me that Caerilcarn is the name the elves are claiming, and for whatever reason they're calling their camp by the same name. I suspect they have their own name for their refurbishment of the Stronghold of the Nine, but they're just not using that name in conversation with outsiders. Since Caerilcarn translates as "Council of the Wood" (Lost Empires pg 94) it's easy to imagine a misunderstanding on the part of any non-elf. If visitors are allowed to live (perhaps a big "if") they're probably greeted with some form of "welcome to Caerilcarn" which could easily imply that it's their name for the physical place when in fact the elves are welcoming you to a metaphorical place; a council. In humanized layman's terms. Alternatively, the place where this council is taking shape (currently this particular fortress but it might be elsewhere later on) is Caerilcarn, and the elves participating are introducing themselves by the same name.

Still leaves the question of what the dwarves called their outpost before the Stronghold of the Nine was added on. And of course the original name of the Halls of the Hammer.

Also: it's pretty cool to have a thread rezzed by you Eric. Thankya.


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2014 :  21:01:51  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds good. Might this be the source of some tactless elves derisively calling dwarves "stumpy?"

Looking forward to seeing more on Arvuddaern!
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2065 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2014 :  22:27:27  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh

Sounds good. Might this be the source of some tactless elves derisively calling dwarves "stumpy?"

Looking forward to seeing more on Arvuddaern!



I settled on Caerildaern for the name of the elven village over Arvuddaern.

I settled on Vallahirsonn for the original (dwarven) name of the Halls of the Hammer.

Use if you wish.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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