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Feawen
Acolyte

Australia
25 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  13:30:59  Show Profile  Visit Feawen's Homepage Send Feawen a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Which did you guys like better? and why?

-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=-

EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  16:17:42  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only thing... seriously... ONLY thing that even makes NWN worth buying is the Toolset. If it wasn't for that I'd never buy it in the first palce. I hear alot of people complain about the grapics in BG, BG II, PS:Torment, IWD, etc, but, according to *ME*, NWN grapics are even WORST. Yeah! You heard me! They made the game up to be sometihng 'big and great' and god-knows-what, and we end up with a *horrible* camera, with hardly *any* controll at all. We can only controll 1 Character, not a entire party, with all the fun that includes, and... and... I SIMPLY HATED THE GRAPICHS, AND THE CONTROLL-STYLE! It doesn't give good overwiev of anything, and it's bloody annoying.

Nor does it allow for any real 'freedom' (You can't just run of into the woods and decide thjat you are going to become the head of a Druid Grove, or something like that. And everything is just too damg SMALL. The 2D-games gave the impression that the world was big, something of wich is *is*, while NWN jsut makes it seem... liek a little island, or something lik that. (If you compare BG's Baldur's Gate, and NWN's Luskan Baldur's Gate was 6 tiems as big, for crying ut loud... and we all know *That* to we waaaay off the scale.)

Atleast... that's my point of wiew.

Baldur's Gate, on the other hand, doesn't make itself up to be soemthing it's not. It's got a good story, it gives the players 'freedom' to do alot of different thinng, and it's EASY TO SEE WHAT YOUR DOING! Not messy like NWN.

On the other hand... NWN does have the Toolset...

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  18:21:10  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dont really know, I loved the charackter making in NwN where you could be any subrace you wanted and whorship any deity oyu wanted, and it was really great with some change from the old Forgotten realms games. I think that I will have to say... welll.. Dont think I really know.

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  19:52:07  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really need to start writing my posts in Word... my typos (Yes: They are typos. My fingers are... un-cooperative) are just getting worse and worse.

I still say that BG, IWD, PS:T, etc, rulz NwN, tho.
Although, if you bother to get the Expansion Packs, The Game improves considerably, that I must admit.
(You can get wings! Wings! Wings! Wings! Wings!
...
I like wings.
And Dragons.
Dragons are cool.)

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  22:15:00  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The dragon wings arent that cool.
And why dont you just download a charackter editor?
Then you can get almost all types of wings your heart should desire.

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  22:29:00  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like them both the same, though i do like how NWN lets you have a subrace and deity, (I was finally able to worship Vhaeraun!!!! Oh Yeah!)and it had the Auroura Toolset. But BG2 did have a bit better camera control

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  22:43:55  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Was there such a thing as camera control, I mean BG2 was 2dm wasent it?

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  22:46:38  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, but I mean like it wasn't all "Lets move over there and look at a squirrel during this important fight" The NWN Cam. tends to move around too much....

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2965 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2004 :  22:53:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
About the camera control: Generally, a 3D interface lends itself to a freer camera then a 2D interface, neh? And Shadowlord, have you tried unlocking NWN's camera for true 3D camera control?
Between the two: The original NWN campaign had the weakest plot of the Bioware games. SoU's was better, and HotU's is comparable to BGII's. As for the graphics, I feel they were quite improved.(Causing my current trend of using NWN screenshots as wallpaper for my desktop). The game engine is much easier to use, once you become accustomed to it...One thing to remember is that much of the NWN development time was spent creating the core engine and the toolset, and then creating the core campaign using those tools...As such, they didn't include every single last option that BGII had, but the inclusion of the toolset made up for that in mine mind.
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  00:04:22  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ezindir the dark

The dragon wings arent that cool.
And why dont you just download a charackter editor?
Then you can get almost all types of wings your heart should desire.


'cuz I wanna be a dragon, dammit!

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Feawen
Acolyte

Australia
25 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  00:15:13  Show Profile  Visit Feawen's Homepage Send Feawen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For me Graphics dont really matter, whatever game it is, it has to be able to hold my interest.

I did like NWN a lot, but i think they should have stuck with 2D. 3D just isnt advanced enough to do RPG's justice.

BG2 on the other hand, despite is relatively dated graphics, created and finished a completley immersive story, AND game. The reply value is certainly still there for me.

And not being able to control more than 1 character sucks. I mean come on, it couldnt have been that difficult to have a party..that was one of the reasons i liked BG2 so much.

for me its BG2, but only just.

-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=-
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  00:23:39  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Feawen... if you were a gal I'd love you...

[I've got too much spare-time... the last 11 topics had their last post by me, and I'm still thinking of new topics.... I think I'll wait till tomorrow before I do that... Good-night]

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P

Edited by - EcThelion on 19 Jan 2004 00:27:00
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Feawen
Acolyte

Australia
25 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  12:26:53  Show Profile  Visit Feawen's Homepage Send Feawen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
lol why?

-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=-
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  12:43:53  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
For me Graphics dont really matter, whatever game it is, it has to be able to hold my interest.

I did like NWN a lot, but i think they should have stuck with 2D. 3D just isnt advanced enough to do RPG's justice.

BG2 on the other hand, despite is relatively dated graphics, created and finished a completley immersive story, AND game. The reply value is certainly still there for me.

And not being able to control more than 1 character sucks. I mean come on, it couldnt have been that difficult to have a party..that was one of the reasons i liked BG2 so much.

!!!*for me its BG2*!!!

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Mephostophilis
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  14:40:47  Show Profile  Visit Mephostophilis's Homepage Send Mephostophilis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For and against.
I kind of miss the party-play of the Baldur's Gate series. One character and maybe a henchman doesn't quite gift the game with the complexity of controlling the varied abilities of 6 characters.
I do however like the introduction of the 3e rules system. It removes the character identicality quandry of where a level 9 fighter was virtually identical to any other level 9 fighter out there. Oh yes, and I like the more reasonable approach taken to armour. It actually makes armours other than full-plate worth considering.
But then again, I miss Chromatic Orb.
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  15:05:31  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Magic Missile pwnz Chormatic orb. I'd lik to see you kill a Dragon with that spell.

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  15:55:01  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Forgotten One

quote:
Originally posted by Ezindir the dark

The dragon wings arent that cool.
And why dont you just download a charackter editor?
Then you can get almost all types of wings your heart should desire.


'cuz I wanna be a dragon, dammit!

But you can only be a half dragon with silly smal wings, if you download the charackter editor you can be a full dragon you know. But I understand it is cool.

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  18:09:54  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where is this Character Editor? I'd like to see it.

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  19:12:33  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On a place called sorceres place. If you wait for a while I will post It right here.
If you dont wont to wait just shearch for sorceres place and I am sure you will find it.

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  21:48:34  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, yes. I know of that place. I shall seek it out when I have a chance... as a matter of fact I shall have to resign to my quarters now. For a small period of meditation. But fear not! I shall return within the hour!

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  21:50:29  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meditation, hmm, what are you, a monk, or a cleric?

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  21:52:44  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heres the link anyway: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/NWN/index_editors.ht
It is named charackter creator and is the second hak from the top, in case someone else wanted it. ENJOY!!

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2004 :  21:57:30  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have that hak, its quite useful and even makes your characters look cool....

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2004 :  09:34:37  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With Hordes of the Underdark, NWN is greatly improved. But it still doesn't hold a candle to BG2, by itself. Face it: NWN relies heavily on the community. Without the toolset, it'd be another average-to-mediocre RPG. The first official campaign was simply godawful (AI that'll kill you more than the enemies, uninspired story, unspired characters, repetitive quests); SoU was better, but barely, and the story was still dull. HotU is a quantum leap, but the story still feels disjointed and, IMO, underwhelming. First chapter: dungeon crawl. Second chapter: dungeon crawl. Third chapter: a series of weird and weider puzzles. The NPC interactions and good writing save it, but still. And Valen Shadowbreath? Carth the Second, anyone? (KotOR reference.) *bangs head against desk*

The graphics are nothing to write home about, though that is again improved in HotU. But there's something really wrong when Luskan and Neverwinter look the same (as they use the same city exterior tileset).
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe

Norway
323 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2004 :  16:35:58  Show Profile  Visit EcThelion's Homepage Send EcThelion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My poinion presicely. The only thing that makes NwN worth buying is the Toolset, and the fact that it is, after all, set in Faerūn. No matter how horrid the gameplay... I liek to keep a full collection

Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P
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Anatares Fae Melanelye
Acolyte

Canada
1 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2004 :  17:58:02  Show Profile  Visit Anatares Fae Melanelye's Homepage Send Anatares Fae Melanelye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally I think Neverwinter Nights is way better than BG2 for several reasons;

1. More humour. Everyone is so damn serious in the Baulder's Gate series.
2. Three dimensions. 'Nuff said.
3. Valen Shadowbreath in the Hordes of the Underdark expansion. *drool*

^-^

Valen is MINE.
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Kaervok
Seeker

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2004 :  01:23:48  Show Profile  Visit Kaervok's Homepage Send Kaervok a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EcThelion

My poinion presicely. The only thing that makes NwN worth buying is the Toolset, and the fact that it is, after all, set in Faerūn. No matter how horrid the gameplay... I liek to keep a full collection



What in the world, CHROMATIC ORB WAS THE BEST SPELL I HAVE EVER SEEN. It improved with every level and could stun and bline and also have a chance of parilization and EVEN DEATH. I have instantly killed a few people with it. Also there was no casting time. I think csting time needs to be reintroduced though to make it realistic. It takes the same amount of time to cast a spell to make meteors come down from the sky as to just make a light appear. But Also I will buy anything in the Faerun collection because I am an avid participant in the realms and hold it as a reminder to me during my days, specially days of boredom. If anyone doesn't have it, get the Forgotten Realms Manual for DnD, its got lots of great stuff in it. Alas, I LOVE THE NWN GRAPHICS, and there is a lot of camera freedom....what are you talking about?? Just get the newest patch and you can go virtualy anywhere, and wtf, there was no camera control in BG games or IWD games, it stayed at that slanted position al the time.... you really must update and check out these things. ALSO, I readily agree with you that many things were out of proportion, Luskan, Omg, like my backyard. Yes, WAYYYYY TO SMALL and way to much of nothing happening and no plot in Luskan. It really was undermining to Faerun. Yes, I love that Epic feeling that Baldurs gate gave us, it sent chills up my spine and especially the music. But WIth Hordes, the plot was fuc999 awsome and the music greatly improved. I really like though how they built some legends into the story. But baldurs gate, I can only hope oneday another game like it set in Faerun will be made by some smart developers, Ill never forget it. And I take it we are all into Faerun? THe greatest fantasy world I have ever laid eyes on.. Yes... Ok ok, tooo long of a post, Kaer.
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2004 :  04:31:30  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Anatares Fae Melanelye

Personally I think Neverwinter Nights is way better than BG2 for several reasons;

1. More humour. Everyone is so damn serious in the Baulder's Gate series.
2. Three dimensions. 'Nuff said.


Dungeon Siege has better 3D graphics. Ditto for Morrowind. Ditto for KotOR.

quote:
3. Valen Shadowbreath in the Hordes of the Underdark expansion. *drool*

^-^



You mean Carth the Second?

Carth Onasi: Blah blah I don't trust you blah blah I'll keep an eye on you blah blah you might betray the Republic blah blah.

Valen: Blah blah I don't trust you blah blah I'll keep an eye on you blah blah you might betray the Seer blah blah.

Now, I understand that Mr. Gaider wrote both romances, but really, there's surely a limit to how much one can plagiarize oneself. There was Aribeth/Bastila similarities, and now Carth/Valen. Come on! (Except, of course, that Bastila is a much better character than Aribeth, and Carth appeals to me more than Valen.)

Kaervok said:

quote:
Alas, I LOVE THE NWN GRAPHICS, and there is a lot of camera freedom....what are you talking about?? Just get the newest patch and you can go virtualy anywhere, and wtf, there was no camera control in BG games or IWD games, it stayed at that slanted position al the time.... you really must update and check out these things.


Oh, please, now this is unreasonable. The Infinity Engine games predate NWN, so of course they were less advanced graphically. The difference is that the IE games' isometric graphics are great for what they are -- whereas NWN's blocky graphics fail to compete with other 3D graphics. It's not a judging point for a RPG, but it adds to the long list of flaws.
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe

Norway
603 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2004 :  14:30:08  Show Profile  Visit Ezindir the dark's Homepage Send Ezindir the dark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Anatares Fae Melanelye

Personally I think Neverwinter Nights is way better than BG2 for several reasons;

1. More humour. Everyone is so damn serious in the Baulder's Gate series.
^-^

How can you say that?
I'l just have too say: Jan. He are hilarius, and a lot of loonies, the character conversations are funny too and the quest in the dragon's(oh whats his name, abzigal!?)lair, where tre adventures acctally attack you and reload since you slay them. I almost laughted to death.

Learn about the Ways of Vhaeraun .
- Check out my bio, majore update
- The Wanderers Quest

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Kaervok
Seeker

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2004 :  01:16:12  Show Profile  Visit Kaervok's Homepage Send Kaervok a Private Message  Reply with Quote

OK, somewhere winterwolf said NWN graphics were blocky? Im not sure, what video card are you using? THe graphics can be absolutely fabulous. YOu must be running NWN on a crap computer. And Also, I loved the fantasy look of Baldurs gate. It was very realistic to me and I loved all the spell effects. ToB was even better.
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2004 :  05:05:48  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaervok


OK, somewhere winterwolf said NWN graphics were blocky? Im not sure, what video card are you using? THe graphics can be absolutely fabulous. YOu must be running NWN on a crap computer. And Also, I loved the fantasy look of Baldurs gate. It was very realistic to me and I loved all the spell effects. ToB was even better.



It's Winterfox, sir, not wolf.

P4, 2.8c, 512 DDR RAM, GeForce FX 5900 128 MB, hon. Not uber, but hardly crappy. I can run KotOR with 8x anti-aliasing, 8x anitrosopic, with shadows, frame buffer, and basically every graphical option turned to maximum, and it will still run like silk. Believe me, KotOR is a lot more demanding on the system than NWN. Oh, my system can also likewise run Morrowind with graphical options turned to maximum, suffer no lag, and still has fast loading time.

NWN graphics, especially without HotU, are blocky and repetitive compared to the graphics of other 3D games. I'm comparing it to KotOR (uber melee combat animation!), Morrowind (whose character models are ugly, but the landscape is great. Each city actually looks, dare I say, unique), or Lineage II (whose graphics made my jaw drop the first time I saw it. Has some clipping problem, but still). HotU helps a lot with the sky and robes, but tilesets are tilesets. It takes a talented modder to make an inn look very different from the next inn, and there's only so much you can do with placeables and lighting. (Of course I've played some excellent mods, many of which are vastly superior to the official campaigns. Excuse me while I go back to drool over Elegia Eternum and Excrucio Eternum.)
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