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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 17:53:31
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Hi all,
I seem to be having a bit of an issue deciding a few things. So Taverns, are mainly places where booze is served and sometimes you can find rooms. And Inns are mainly where you find lodging and maybe a meal, and sometimes booze.
What exactly then is a festhall? Is that the politically correct term for brothel or a bar with dancers? Or is that what the combination of inn/tavern are supposedly named?
I've never paid much attention to what the hard differences are between all these establishments and was wondering if any other fellow scribes would have any additional info.
Thanks all.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 18:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
A festhall is a brothel or brothel/tavern.
Yup. It was Ed's way of getting brothels in past the overly strict requirements of TSR. Some of the places flat out state the employees are there for rented companionship, but I guess that was enough of a dodge to keep TSR happy.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but we say it's a mouse, then it's not a duck!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 18:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
A festhall is a brothel or brothel/tavern.
Is this official?
I can see many Fest Halls, Spring, Harvest Halls that do not require coin girls.
Edited a typo |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 17 Jun 2012 03:38:11 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 20:15:27
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I envision Realms festhalls as a combination inn, tavern, and brothel. Typically something not unlike a cross between a cheap motel and a seedy stage bar - and often filled with the same sorts of pimps, pushers, thieves, thugs, and drunks. Travellers might happily visit to partake in some wenching and entertainment but most would prefer to arrange their overnight accomodations in more reputable inns ... and nobody frequents a festhall for the cheap food and watery ale.
No doubt many upscale and respectable festhalls exist, notably temples to powers like Sharess. But I suspect the vast majority are run by local thieves' guilds, city councils, and other criminal organizations. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Jun 2012 20:26:13 |
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Cassie5squared
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 20:32:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I envision Realms festhalls as a combination inn, tavern, and brothel. Typically something not unlike a cross between a cheap motel and a seedy stage bar - and often filled with the same sorts of pimps, pushers, thieves, thugs, and drunks. Travellers might happily visit to partake in some wenching and entertainment but most would prefer to arrange their overnight accomodations in more reputable inns ... and nobody frequents a festhall for the cheap food and watery ale.
No doubt many upscale and respectable festhalls exist, notably temples to powers like Sharess. But I suspect the vast majority are run by local thieves' guilds, city councils, and other criminal organizations.
Well, maybe some of them are, but there are descriptions of festhalls in the various Volo's Guides which are much more flattering, and make them sound like places where it would be a pleasant night out even for the ones which aren't particularly high-end. |
"Why do any of us get up in the morning? Why, for the joy and fun the day might bring us, if we're awake to see it! Up, then, and find ye fun!" - Elminster of Shadowdale
"And from the flames
As chance would have it
The Soulforged will come into light~" - Blind Guardian, "The Soulforged" |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 20:59:14
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I'm sure some of them are dark, wicked, places of despair. (Imagine a festhall run by the clergy of Loviatar.)
As described in the various Volo guides, however, they appear to be much more part of the community than they are in the US, with the corresponding sense that they are more places for relaxation and companionship that sometimes extends to sex rather than places for sex and/or ogling.
quote:
Originally posted by Cassie5squared
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I envision Realms festhalls as a combination inn, tavern, and brothel. Typically something not unlike a cross between a cheap motel and a seedy stage bar - and often filled with the same sorts of pimps, pushers, thieves, thugs, and drunks. Travellers might happily visit to partake in some wenching and entertainment but most would prefer to arrange their overnight accomodations in more reputable inns ... and nobody frequents a festhall for the cheap food and watery ale.
No doubt many upscale and respectable festhalls exist, notably temples to powers like Sharess. But I suspect the vast majority are run by local thieves' guilds, city councils, and other criminal organizations.
Well, maybe some of them are, but there are descriptions of festhalls in the various Volo's Guides which are much more flattering, and make them sound like places where it would be a pleasant night out even for the ones which aren't particularly high-end.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 21:15:51
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Ah, well prostitution in our society is automatically condemned as a distasteful criminal sort of activity which typically involves or attracts distasteful criminal sorts of people.
This isn't the case with all societies, past or present. A more apt comparison might be made between Realms festhalls and modern bars and clubs. A place people go to socialize, carouse, party, and seek more intimate companions. I suppose larger communities in the Realms would have all manner of festhalls which cater to different ages and interests. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 21:57:03
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fthall=brothel/ inn/exotic dancer.
the dragonrider's club in suzail is a festhall, however it's more adult dancing than much else.... well atleast on whats been said on it. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 22:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
What exactly then is a festhall? Is that the politically correct term for brothel or a bar with dancers? Or is that what the combination of inn/tavern are supposedly named?
IIRC, in existing lore these range from a restaurant with a dancing scene, to an "inn" with a bar where "escorts" always hang out, to straightforward brothels, to concert halls with snacks served right there, to arbitrary combinations of any of this and more.
So, think "night club" minus "night" part - i.e. a catch-all term, very blurry, and frequently intentionally so.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 03:36:56
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Jeff Grubb applied the term "festhall" to Ed’s "brothels" for TSR Code of Ethics reasons.
More from Ed:-
"...“festhalls” [...] vary in customs, but the more elaborate ones ARE “a cross between a private club, a casino, and a brothel.”
This is due to the fact that many folk in Faerûn can readily couple with someone (on a rooftop or behind a midden in crowded cities, and ‘out in the woods’ or in a nearby thicket or hollow in a distant pasture, in a rural setting) if mere sexual gratification is all they want. What they go to the brothels for (and yes, some of these establishments are private clubs, particularly those specializing in S&M, mate-swapping, or inter-species congress) is for ‘added fun.’
By this term, I mean: striptease performances, playacting and dressing up in outlandish costumes (“Hah, my pretty, I’m not merely Rorold the fat butcher from down the street - - I’m Ravagar Wanderglar, dread pirate of the Serpent Seas!”), the chance to gamble (betting one’s body, temporary freedom, or items of clothing) or gambol (yes, dance), make love to music, have access to situations visitors wouldn’t dare try outside a club (mock rape of a priest or priestess or ruler or other authority figure), making love on a tomb, crossdressing, eating food off the bodies of strangers, and so on), and the chance (particularly in masked revels) to enjoy someone else in a small community who’s married to someone else - - to ‘find’ each other in public, or even be seen heading off to a tryst, would cause a scandal, but going to the brothel separately and getting up to all manner of hijinx there, even (in some cases) if observed by fellow community members, is ‘okay’ (the brothel is accepted as ‘outside’ normal society, a safety valve in which folk can temporarily set aside their usual public manner and status).
I see the popularity of brothels in the Realms as based on the Faerûnian love of play: as in our real world, children lose many opportunities for playing as they grow up (unless they can shift into participation in a sport, or acting, or performing and use that as an outlet), but brothels offer a place to go on playing, lifelong.
Some people never engage in a sexual physical act at a brothel, but visit them often. Some of these go to watch the fun (ogling), some go for the chance to flirt or make lewd suggestions they’d never dare utter elsewhere, and some just like to chat or play cards or drink with others while naked, or while crossdressing, or while pretending to be of a race or profession (example: the pirate above) that they’re not. Some folks frequent festhalls to play tag, or blindfolded tag, or all sorts of other games that again, are play but not necessarily sexual.
(And then of course there are also brothels that are ‘simple *****houses,’ particularly in ports where sailors make landing after long voyages without access to ‘fresh faces,’ or caravans disperse ditto.)"
...
The Warm Wondra's in Tantras is a good example of a true festhall in the Realms.
Again, from Ed:-
"The wildest festhall in Tantras, Warm Wondra’s, is also on Roardragon Way (the main street running along the southern edge of the docks), and it truly is a festhall: nightly shows are held there from dusk until dawn, beginning with contortionists, comedians, jugglers, and players who perform short bawdy works, and progressing through minstrels who put on rousing sequences of drinking and ‘slay the dragon’ songs, to a farce play involving maidens who get disrobed by monsters or villains (the audience is encouraged to boo, hiss, cheer, and even help deliver lines if they buy drinks for the actors), and finally to out-and-out exotic dancing and sex-for-coin activity (all of which is legal; the masked, cudgel-wielding Watch of Tantras are there -- just as they are on their frequent street, dockside, and tavern patrols -- to keep order, arresting persons who draw steel, wound others, or start fires, and ejecting the unruly onto the street)." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 05:20:01
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The word "brothel" has a rather limited and extremely specific connotation for me. It makes me think immediately of Vegas whorehouses or saloon/houses of the Old West. As Sage notes, there's SO much more going on in a Realms festhall (casino-like, dancing, minstrels, food/wine, entertainment of all types). Yes, there can be sex-for-coin at a festhall, but it's more carnival-like, playful and normalized.
I once described a festhall to players as a mash-up of: "casino, strip club, roadhouse bar, sports bar, theater, Shakespearean playhouse, and brothel" - and regretted only the word brothel because of its very limited function and our moral perception of them in the US.
Plus, there's such a huge range of quality (and sometimes catering to specific interests) across festhalls you could have one that's a "downtown" dirty/seedy bar with lowlifes aplenty (and cheap whores) and a super high-class one with nobles and rich merchants (with highly trained escort/playpretties)... both in the same city.
"Oh Lord Roaringhorn, you're such a cad, I say!" - overheard at a baudy performance of Piergeiron's Magical Codpiece when masked Roaringhorn guffawed loudly and tossed coins at the actors.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 17 Jun 2012 05:37:05 |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 15:15:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I see the popularity of brothels in the Realms as based on the Faerûnian love of play: as in our real world, children lose many opportunities for playing as they grow up (unless they can shift into participation in a sport, or acting, or performing and use that as an outlet), but brothels offer a place to go on playing, lifelong.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I once described a festhall to players as a mash-up of: "casino, strip club, roadhouse bar, sports bar, theater, Shakespearean playhouse, and brothel" - and regretted only the word brothel because of its very limited function and our moral perception of them in the US.
I imagine it as offering a variety of settings (exotic gardens, luxurious baths, rooms decorated in a variety of styles) in which people can do anything they like, more or less - sexual or otherwise. I envision smoking rooms, music rooms, theatres, gaming rooms, restaurants, libraries, wine cellars & bars, hairdressers, perfumeries, massage parlors, art galleries... basically, presenting a multitude of opportunities to stimulate the senses in a variety of ways. People being what they are, of course, there'll be a lot of sex, but it's not necessarily the main focus of the festhall. As the name implies, the emphasis is on festivities and fun most of all.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 21:01:13
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| The Civic Festhall in Sigil has every service a body needs, I don't remember that the brothel part was mentioned. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 03:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The Civic Festhall in Sigil has every service a body needs, I don't remember that the brothel part was mentioned.
I'm going from memory, but I think the Torment game made reference to the Brothel of Slating Intellectual Lusts as being part of the Civic Festhall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 04:58:58
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A bathhouse is what it says a house that contains a large pool used for bathing.
A festhall in its original might have been a pun there and a slanged form of the word FESTivities, FESTival added on to the word hall.
not that it is or anything.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 08:56:38
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The Brothel of Slaking Intellectual Lusts* was indeed a Civic Festhall of Sigil, employing Succubi Sensates and other exotics. Utterly disinterested and disgusted by anything as unintellectually base as sexual contact.
* A typo within the game also refers to this as the Temple of Slating Intellectual Lusts. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Jun 2012 13:31:24 |
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Festhall, Taverns, and Inns
