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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 21:51:31
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No one has asked me for my opinion, and I've been pretty quiet about what I think thus far, but like everyone else, I have my opinions about how the Forgotten Realms should be handled after D&D Next/Fifth Edition hits.
These are the 10 simple rules, almost impossible to follow all in concert, which I think the folks who will eventually design the next version of the Forgotten Realms ought to follow. I won’t lie and say that I don’t hope to be one of them, but whomever WotC chooses for the task, these are the Commandments, if you like, which I feel should govern the Realms going forward.
The Forgotten Realms Are Ours (Everyone’s): As a world, the Realms belongs to its fans, its creators, and those in whose imaginations it lives. Those people deserve freedom from sweeping, board-clearing changes. Realms-Shaping Events should occur when necessary to tell the story of the Realms, not when convenient to introduce some other element that might not be appropriate for the setting. RSEs should Shape the Realms, and occasionally Shake a few of them, but never Shatter them or our understanding of what the Realms are.
The Forgotten Realms Are WotC’s: Wizards has the freedom to make changes as necessary, the freedom to downplay unintended consequences from individual products, and the freedom to ignore as non-canon material from other sources (especially computer/video games). Elements from non-canon sources that enhance the Realms can be brought in freely, provided that they respect what has already been established for the setting.
The Forgotten Realms Are Yours: At your gaming table or in your imagination, you are free from canon. You may add to or subtract from the published Realms as you see fit. Once you start your game, the world is completely yours to do with as you like—so long as you remember to honor your group’s love of FR, and those with whom you share your stories all understand and agree on where you will depart from the established Realms.
The Realms Are The Story: People come to FR for the stories that are already going on there. If your story (novel, adventure, game supplement, sourcebook, whatever) requires Setting Surgery to make it fit, it might not be a Realms story. The onus is on the writer to make the story fit the Realms, not to make the Realms fit the story.
Yes, It All Happened: Everything that is in the canon actually happened. While it may be functionally impossible to keep track of every single thing that anyone has ever written about the Realms, it’s important to remember that the strength of the setting is its continuity. Ignoring or erasing unwanted or unpleasant facets of Realmslore—dismissing events entirely out of hand—is not helpful to the Realms, especially when, at any point, any number of other projects might be building off that information.
…But Maybe Not Like That: Built into the original concept of the Realms is the notion of the unreliable narrator. While it’s important to keep as canon previously published material, it’s just as important for future designers to have the freedom to take disparate threads of Realmslore and weave them into a cohesive whole. This might mean trimming out some things that contradict other elements. What is most important is not what was most recently published (which, to date, has been the rule regarding what is and is not canon), but to keep what makes most sense over the 25 year history of the Realms as a fiction and campaign setting.
Time Marches On: Things happen. Those things have consequences. Heroes fall, nations rise, and monsters devour. Those we love are lost to us. Time passes.
And that’s a good thing.
One beauty of the Forgotten Realms (among its many), since the very beginning, is that its characters are not simply animatronics waiting for you to flip on the light to play out whatever scene they were always going to play. They move. They change. They have motivations, and may act while the protagonists are off doing whatever it is they decided to do this month.
The pieces are always moving on the board. Each person is the protagonist in his or her own story. This, more than anything, is why the Realms works as a world; it would keep spinning even if my cavalier died off in the wilds of the High Forest, long before he rose to become the captain of the Watch.
D&D Is The Clothing, Not The Skeleton: Since its inception, the Realms have bent, folded, or broken in order to make room for changes in the D&D game, despite the fact that far more people consume the Realms as a fiction setting than a game setting. Every major rule change, every subsetting or theme (Pirates? Ninjas? Genies? We got ‘em!) made it into the Realms in some way or another.
I don’t know what form 5E/D&D Next will take, but the Realms needs to be divorced from the notion—as all other D&D settings seem to be—that everything D&D has to fit in the Realms. It’s okay for the Realms to have a different take on psionics, or on the gods, or on the cosmology.
In the end, D&D needs to be the filter through which we see the Realms, a method for understanding the world and a means of providing conflict resolution for the fictional conflicts we set there.
Ask the Locals: The primary test for any event in the Realms is what it looks like to an everyday resident of the world. If, even in the face of all that has passed in Toril—gods walking the land, the rise and fall of empires, flying cities and their crashing to the ground, Manshoon and Shade and phaerimm and the Blackstaff and Manshoon and the Horde Crusade and the Kingdom of Many Arrows and, oh yeah, Manshoon—an everyday Faerûnian would stop, scratch his head, and wonder whether this was really the world into which he was born (Keanu Reeves-like, asking whether he’s actually in the Matrix), then you might need to hit the pause button and rewind on the tale you’re trying to tell.
After all that’s happened in the Realms, most of the people are still ordinary folks living ordinary lives. Which suggests there’s a lot more ‘normal’ going on than there is world-spanning adventures.
Ask the Experts: Over the years, the Realms has attracted a number of lore-seeking bounty hunters, that spend their days gleefully researching and reconciling all manner of minuscule, mind-warping inconsistencies in published lore, in order to make sure that everything in the Realms continue to work. These are the unseen gremlins that keep the gears turning. Many of them are current or former TSR/WotC freelancers, either directly, or through Paizo’s publication of their magazines.
It’s past time these folks were brought into the loop.
Whether that’s through the formal creation of a Realms Council, informal emails exchanged between a current author and the established expert on a subject, or regular conversations about problems in the Realms that need reconciling, the people best-equipped to deal with the ongoing lore conflicts are those that have, quietly and without thanks, been resolving those conflicts for years. George Krashos ranks foremost among these folks, but he is surely not alone.
By no means are these demands, and it's probably impossible to follow all 10 perfectly, but in the ideal world, that's what the Realms team would keep in mind for the future.
Also, there is an Eleventh Commandment, which is entirely a branding issue and probably is out of the hands of the designers:
Thou shalt bring back an identifiable Forgotten Realms logo.
Discuss...
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 22:10:06
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How do you (Garen) feel about this being re-posted, in part or in wholesale, on other forums or blogs?
Obviously linking to your first post works, but I wonder whether an immediate read might not serve to get the point across better? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 22:10:30
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The second one, that the Realms are WotC's property, is true as far as it goes, but not really relevant to me or anyone else as a consumer.
The creator of any IP has the moral right to do what he wants with it, yes. But this moral right doesn't make him immune to criticism on grounds of aesthetics or just personal preference.
If Miramax buys the rights to film Le Petit Prince, they have a legal and moral right to cast Shia LeBouf, dress him in leather and insert subplots about a terrorist plot, motorcycle racing and a sassy female love interest who's the sister of the main terrorist.
And the audience, in turn, has the legal and moral right to judge the finished product and make their decisions about whether to buy a DVD of it after viewing the film or whether they'll dedicate their lives to helping people avoid any film made by any member of the production, writing and directorial crew.
When I critise creators for adding stuff to their IPs, I'm not arguing that they are not within their rights to do so. I'm saying that the stuff I'm critising is stupid and made their IP less enjoyable to me. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 28 Mar 2012 22:11:04 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 22:30:11
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| Well stated, Brian! |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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My game design work:
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 23:25:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
The second one, that the Realms are WotC's property, is true as far as it goes, but not really relevant to me or anyone else as a consumer.
The creator of any IP has the moral right to do what he wants with it, yes. But this moral right doesn't make him immune to criticism on grounds of aesthetics or just personal preference.
Icelander, I think you may have misunderstood my point. I was not saying "WotC owns the Realms, and therefore should never be criticized," or even that they had the wholesale right to do whatever they wish to the setting (it is, after all, the second "commandment." What I was saying was that WotC is the owner here, and should not feel beholden to lore or interpretations introduced by Baldur's Gate 17: Piles of Money, or by Licensed Comic Issue 43, or Popular Internet Fan X. It's also a reminder that some products have unintended consequences in the canon, and that--as the owners of the setting--WotC's responsibility is to fix the problems.
Other than a statement of collective ownership, nothing in my original post is about what consumers ought to do. These commandments are design guidelines, not instructions for fans of the Realms.
I have no interest in telling people how to feel about the Forgotten Realms. My interest is in making and keeping the Realms awesome. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 23:27:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
How do you (Garen) feel about this being re-posted, in part or in wholesale, on other forums or blogs?
Obviously linking to your first post works, but I wonder whether an immediate read might not serve to get the point across better?
In part is fine, but I really do prefer not to have to jump from forum to forum to keep myself involved in 3 or 4 versions of the same discussion. If. Wanted to do that, I would have put this on the WotC boards and on Google+, too. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 23:38:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
In part is fine, but I really do prefer not to have to jump from forum to forum to keep myself involved in 3 or 4 versions of the same discussion. If. Wanted to do that, I would have put this on the WotC boards and on Google+, too.
In part it is.
FWIW, the idea of re-posting in whole was to try and generate independent discussion, not to drag you across all those forums to have the same conversation.
Regardless, linking should work fine. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 00:05:40
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Heh, "Realms Council" ... in a way I see the functions of this grand ideal already being selflessly maintained by the collective efforts of "current or former TSR/WotC freelancers" and countless Realms "experts" and fans. Their visits to Candlekeep are evidence enough, not to mention the numerous other RPG forums through which they interact.
Still, formalizing an assembled self-governing Realms Council would cost little more than a website and perhaps a mailing address. It could be easily adopted within an existing forum (like, say, the Wizards boards or Candlekeep) and would allow for the Grand Masters of Realmslore and Mildly Interested Visitors of Realmslore alike to access a central nexus instead of a thousand scattered twitters and facebooks and webspaces. I haven't seen any large (volunteer) collaborations among these Grand Masters of Realmslore, although many maintain small web archives of Realmslore and frequently contribute at other sites (like Candlekeep) - time and interests permitting. Many of them do it for love and interest of the Realms, although I'm sure recognition, credit, and monetary rewards would hardly be unwelcome.
I'm aware of Candlekeep's somewhat "special" and legally apprehensive status among fansites, and that freelancers in every industry are typified by a reluctance to volunteer for unpaid and unrewarded responsibilities or workloads. But I wonder if it's unreasonable or too ambitious to consider elevating certain scribes to a Realms Council and giving them some shelf space (perhaps even a wiki?), so that their great work is not buried in the endlessly haphazard piles of ever-accumulating scrolls? Alaundo's dusty old library is evidence that such important tasks have been successful in the past. |
[/Ayrik] |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 01:28:49
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 Brian, your graciousness leaves me speechless.
And in 27 years of reading and thinking about the Realms, that stands as the most erudite, complete and compelling synopsis and road-map of what the Realms as a game and fiction setting is all about. Bravo!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 07:14:29
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I agree with all points, though I think you can basically distill them down to:
- Use Common Sense
- Use Your Imagination
- Play Nice Together
I think a Realms Council would be a good idea. Maybe make a group at the Wizards site (I had a 'dalescouncil' there, but it appears to be broken). I can set one up, but I wouldn't want to scatter things too much either.
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Edited by - gomez on 29 Mar 2012 07:14:54 |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 11:48:12
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| Brian, I'd like to post these to my webpage, so that it'd be more easily found. I'd credit the author and give the link to your post, of course... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 16:02:34
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Well said, Brian. Well said. 
I am honored to carry my sword and shield at your side.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 03:36:31
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Great Mission-Statement.
But it should be the Council Of Realms Eexperts. 'Core' setting, 'Core' canon, "call out the core!" (yeah.. I know its spelled Corps... but you get the idea...)
And can I volunteer as cartographer-at-large? 
Or maybe just 'large cartographer'  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Mar 2012 03:37:35 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 05:34:48
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I really wish there was some "Garen's Chapbook" that I could susbcribe to...
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Ask the Experts: Over the years, the Realms has attracted a number of lore-seeking bounty hunters, that spend their days gleefully researching and reconciling all manner of minuscule, mind-warping inconsistencies in published lore, in order to make sure that everything in the Realms continue to work. These are the unseen gremlins that keep the gears turning. Many of them are current or former TSR/WotC freelancers, either directly, or through Paizo’s publication of their magazines.
It’s past time these folks were brought into the loop.
Whether that’s through the formal creation of a Realms Council, informal emails exchanged between a current author and the established expert on a subject, or regular conversations about problems in the Realms that need reconciling, the people best-equipped to deal with the ongoing lore conflicts are those that have, quietly and without thanks, been resolving those conflicts for years. George Krashos ranks foremost among these folks, but he is surely not alone.
I'd also happily offer both my mind and quill for such an ambitious undertaking. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 12:02:09
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As much as I think there are contributions to be made to the Realms by a great many scribes here at the 'Keep, I'm not suggesting a volunteer corps or crowdsourcing with the Realms Council notion. What such a council would be is a small group of dedicated, proven lorelords and -ladies of the Realms (people like George, Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, and others), who could be consulted--individually or as a group--on lore matters great and small. There aren't more than ten names that I'd put on that list--a dozen, at the outside--because it requires a fairly specific combination of skills, time, patience, humility, and persistence.
Of necessity, such a group would not be self-appointed. It would need a single contact, appointed by WotC, whose job it would be to organize, coordinate, and delegate tasks. Even just knowing who the best sage to consult on a particular topic is a monumental task in itself. Such a chairperson would also be aware of resources like Candlekeep, and be able to figure out which person from outside the group could best help solve a quandary if none if it's members can find a solution.
This isn't to suggest that there is no place for volunteers in solving lore problems, only that it wasn't quite what I was talking about. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 16:05:07
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Oh, I know.
I was merely running with an idea Eric Boyd once postulated here at Candlekeep, back in '06... about gathering a small cabal of dedicated scribes from this site who could assist freelance designers and authors with fact-checking and background research for their official works.
Your concept for a Realms Council actually just rekindled those earlier thoughts. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 17:09:16
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| Should your Council need a Counsel you can, of course, count me in. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 17:59:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
As much as I think there are contributions to be made to the Realms by a great many scribes here at the 'Keep, I'm not suggesting a volunteer corps or crowdsourcing with the Realms Council notion. What such a council would be is a small group of dedicated, proven lorelords and -ladies of the Realms (people like George, Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, and others), who could be consulted--individually or as a group--on lore matters great and small. There aren't more than ten names that I'd put on that list--a dozen, at the outside--because it requires a fairly specific combination of skills, time, patience, humility, and persistence.
Indeed. The larger a group is, the more effort it is for it to do anything useful.
I'd favour a 3 man council at most, with a staff of people who'd provide expert assistance. Ed, Steven Schend, Eric Boyd might rate a seat on the council.
A non-voting expert, which could be Garen Thal or George Krashos, for example, would be in charge of receiving all requests for lore and briefing the council, suggesting an expert to contact and then bringing the expert's answer to the council for a final decision. That job, at least, the effective chief of staff for the council, ought to be a full-time paid job and would be similar to a traffic cop in previous editions. He would, however, have a much better formal process for contacting the right experts and having them vet lore before publication. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 22:02:33
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Well said Brain, you perfectly described ´my Realms´ 
Maybe a council might be too much to ask from WotC... obligatory membership of- and participation in-, Candlekeep could go a long way in simulating such a council without it being formal |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 22:14:27
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| Ha ha - obligatory membership and participation in Candlekeep? "You will submit no fewer than 10 posts and 1,000 words per day of Realmslore at these forums or lose your job!" |
[/Ayrik] |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2012 : 16:22:27
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Good points.
However, the real situation, as i see it, is less than shiny:
1) Shoehorning with all the obliviousness of squee-ing shippers started back in 3.x - see the obligatory "how to stuff the gimmick A in settings X, Y and Z" section in the articles. It didn't die out.
2) Amount of weird and plainly stupid (like toboggan-sized swords) animesque stuff steadily increases. Much the same for puerile art like "drow" rhyming with "cow" more and more.
3) WotC developers themselves apparently had not a slightest idea of what would be that thing they want to get labeled as 5.0 - judging by those votes about everything.
4) Rich Baker used an escape pod already. For example.
With such situation in the core - frankly, what are chances?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2012 : 19:44:09
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The 'Core' should be comprised of several 'Realms Experts' who are official-types (like what Icelander suggested above). But also, a much larger 'support group' that those folks can call upon when they need to know something - the folks here at Candlekeep are ideally suited for this purpose. An unofficial list could be made of 'lesser experts' (I hate the way that sounds - how about 'consultants'?), and these would be the go-to people for very specific subjects.
Considering the great group of people we have here, there would probably be 3-5 'consultants' for any one subject, and those people would either have the information themselves, or know who to ask. For instance, if someone asked me about where a specific groups of Elves could be found (because of my geographic knowledge), I would go to Lord Karsus for help. or if someone asked me which cities are known to produce the finest musical instruments or are known for other musical acheivments, I would have to turn to Old Sage. And so on, and so forth. I don't know everything about the Realms (probably less then 50%, if that), but neither does any one person, including Ed (since so much was designed after he handed it over). I'm sure he'd be hard-pressed to answer queries about Maztica, Kara-Tur, or Zakhara.
So thats the point - we already have a wonderful 'consultation set-up' right here (using PMs) - we just need a small, official group, that knows the site and knows all of us, to know where to turn if they are unsure about something. I have had over a hundred people give me specific references while I was working on maps - everyone needs help; there is no shame in that. The Forgotten Realms are HUGE, with incredible detail and a massive amount of resources - it needs specialized lore-experts the same way RW historians, archaeologists, and physical scientists need specialties. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Mar 2012 19:45:18 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2012 : 19:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
4) Rich Baker used an escape pod already. For example.
More like "Got thrown out an airlock".
However, I am beginning to rethink that bit of news. It just seemed a bit odd to me, considering he was one of of 4e's core designers (and the only one of that group that seemed to actually give a damn about the fans, for the longest time). Rich's forth-comingness during the entire 4e debacle even got him in trouble ("Rich Baker must be stopped!"), and yet he continued to answer the plethora of (sometimes quite hostile) questions thrown at him on the WotC site. Despite everything, he remained a gentleman throughout - embarrassing those of us who didn't - and I think for that reason alone he was the WRONG person to get rid of just before another new edition release. His PR skills stood a very tough test.
So they are either incredibly short-sighted, or incredibly brilliant... only time will tell. I haven't heard his name pop-up in other circles yet, which is odd - you'd think he'd try to stay within an industry he knows so well. What could possibly be the reason he hasn't gone looking for another job?
On the other hand, if I helped to create 4e, I might want a few years off as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Mar 2012 20:02:06 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 21:29:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I really wish there was some "Garen's Chapbook" that I could subscribe to...
Heh. Well, you know whom to tell if you want to subscribe to my Realms musings... |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 21:44:03
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Good points.
However, the real situation, as i see it, is less than shiny:
1) Shoehorning with all the obliviousness of squee-ing shippers started back in 3.x - see the obligatory "how to stuff the gimmick A in settings X, Y and Z" section in the articles. It didn't die out.
If you mean the advice in D&D articles about how to use D&D material in various D&D settings, I have no problem with that. The problem is when the recommendations ("here's how you use this thing that doesn't really fit in the Realms (i.e. goliaths) in the Realms, if your group really wants it") become mandates.
quote:
2) Amount of weird and plainly stupid (like toboggan-sized swords) animesque stuff steadily increases. Much the same for puerile art like "drow" rhyming with "cow" more and more.
Well, drow does rhyme with cow (I don't know what that has to do with artwork), but the art that's coming out in the next edition, I suspect, will be much closer to an acceptable standard.
The art attached to the current art contest (see here) speaks to far more realistic, culturally-informed art--which is unequivocally a good thing. It doesn't hurt that the artwork samples for Test 3 whisper, very quietly, "Rashemen...."
quote:
3) WotC developers themselves apparently had not a slightest idea of what would be that thing they want to get labeled as 5.0 - judging by those votes about everything.
Not showing isn't the same as not knowing. The people working on 5E are smart folks, and they are not unopinionated when it comes to The Game. They have a good idea where they want to take the next edition. They don't know, for sure, how people feel about those ideas. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 21:45:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Brian, I'd like to post these to my webpage, so that it'd be more easily found. I'd credit the author and give the link to your post, of course...
Go right ahead. I'm not going to bother parsing what and how and which people can quote what.
Same goes for you, Jeremy. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 02:15:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I really wish there was some "Garen's Chapbook" that I could subscribe to...
Heh. Well, you know whom to tell if you want to subscribe to my Realms musings...
Very true.
Composing my missive now. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 11:38:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The problem is when the recommendations ("here's how you use this thing that doesn't really fit in the Realms (i.e. goliaths) in the Realms, if your group really wants it") become mandates.
I don't think goliaths were hard to accept as 'Realmsian'. They are fairly easy to place in a setting that already has giants.
What gave me more of a headache were the warforged...
I think it would be nice to have a short list of things that we 'expect' in the Realms, and hope WotC is willign to consider that list to make sure the Realms do not become 'just another fantasy setting'.
I.e. things like 'the Weave', or 'the Harpers'.
Gomez |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 13:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by gomez
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The problem is when the recommendations ("here's how you use this thing that doesn't really fit in the Realms (i.e. goliaths) in the Realms, if your group really wants it") become mandates.
I don't think goliaths were hard to accept as 'Realmsian'. They are fairly easy to place in a setting that already has giants.
What gave me more of a headache were the warforged...
I think it would be nice to have a short list of things that we 'expect' in the Realms, and hope WotC is willign to consider that list to make sure the Realms do not become 'just another fantasy setting'.
I.e. things like 'the Weave', or 'the Harpers'.
Gomez
Diffan postulated a superb way to establish Warforged in the Realms.
The base techniques for making them were developed in Lantan (by the Gondsmen?), and if I recall correctly, no two are exactly the same. I went (literally overnight) from saying "Ugh...no way would I ever allow one of these in the Realms", to "Yeah...that works for me." I know the exact post is lying around these shelves somewhere.
My bugaboo is dragonborn. I don't like them, and I will never allow them. The concept grates on my nerves, and it has nothing to do with their shoehorning into the Realms for 4th Edition (although that didn't thrill me, either). I didn't like iksar (the resident scalies in Norrath) in Everquest, either, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 03 Apr 2012 13:36:38 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 14:06:44
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Isn't Brian's OP really all about trying to achieve the "best" canon solutions? Nothing is perfect; perhaps Diffan's explanation of warforged won't please most fans, or perhaps an explanation of dragonborn already pleases most fans ... crowdsourcing across the internet (as is done on Candlekeep) is a surprisingly effective means of gathering plausible answers for broken lore. The real question is what to do with all the answers, it always boils down to who is appointed to correlate and coordinate the lore, who writes the guidelines.
Being the loremaster means all of fanon critically awaits your next decisions. Again, I second the suggestion for a more formal Realms Council ... a group known to (and hopefully respected by) the fans, with "official" mechanisms for interacting with the fans, in a direct fashion which doesn't necessarily involve Wizbro oversight. Perhaps it's overly ideal or unrealistically ambitious or legally impossible ... but who knows? |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Ten "Commandments" of 5E FR Design
