| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 14:20:55
|
Hi folks,
I just checked out Candlekeep and a few threads on the Forums. It had been nearly four years since I last visited. About the same time since I last bought a D&D product or read a FR novel...
I read a few rants from Mace and they made me smile. I read a few posts of people sticking to pre-Spellplague or pre-ToT Realms.
I then checked the novel list over at WotC and their recent publications of FR novels.
Now I just feel sad.
It reminded me of when I was so excited about a new novel from Byers coming out. Or the next WotSQ novel. It reminded me about the pleasure I had reading the Unnaproachable East regional book and how much I got out of it for a campaign. It reminded me of the added pleasure of shared excitement when I would exchange with folks here at Candlekeep or over at the Wizards Boards about FR campaigns and novels. I loved the "Ask Rich Baker thread" - I felt like the designers and authors cared and were interested in us. It also reminded me of how Eric Boyd helped us integrate the Age of Worms in Faerūn. All great moments, all great shared experiences. And the feeling the world was alive and moving forward. My campaigns, as player or DM, were alive because it was a world we shared and cared about.
The Spellplague made me leave. Fourth edition made me leave. Checking out all of this today I was hoping to find out that I had maybe made a mistake, that 4e FR were great. Maybe plenty of new ressource books and novels had come out with great ideas. New things, a new great FR campaign. But no, nearly nothing came out. The FR today feel like Greyhawk felt under 3e. Neither deserved that.
I checked out the 4e Campaign Setting Book and it felt like someone had ravished the Realms, stuffed it with odd stuff and removed much of its essence. It felt like a diform bastardised setting thingy were things were now different, "just because". I strongly felt like I did not belong anymore...
So I feel a bit sad and now know nothing is left to be done, but to mourn the Realms and move on...
Bocklin
|
|
|
PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 14:48:19
|
Bocklin,
I'm not sure why you think that "nearly nothing came out," as least as it relates to FR novels (I agree that sourcebooks have been scarce). Near as I can tell, FR novels are coming out post-4E at about the same rate they did pre-4E and are going strong.
We've got new novels from Ed Greenwood, Bob Salvatore, Elaine, the whole Ed Greenwood Presents series, Bruce Cordell's series, books from Mel Odom, Jaleigh Johnson, Erik Scott De Bie, and I could go on for some time.
Long and short: Lots of post 4E novels.
Of course, if you don't like the 4E Realms, that's a different issue entirely, but there's far more available than "nearly nothing," at least when it comes to the novels. |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 12 Jul 2011 14:49:47 |
 |
|
|
Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:08:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
I'm not sure why you think that "nearly nothing came out," as least as it relates to FR novels (I agree that sourcebooks have been scarce). Near as I can tell, FR novels are coming out post-4E at about the same rate they did pre-4E and are going strong.
Thanks, Paul.
I will check again the WoTC website, but when I checked the product listing (the interface is not super user-friendly) I only saw a new series by Ed around Elminster (?) and re-prints of old novels.
Btw. I loved the Erevis Cale trilogy! Vhostym was probably one of the greatest FR villains of all time, truly dark and Nietzschean (as I once said  ). I was also really looking forward to see how the god Mask would evolve over time and what would become out of the Shadowmasters of Uthmere. Ah, well...
Bocklin |
|
|
|
Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:11:49
|
Well met Bocklin
I was a little disheartened when 4E arrived. The Realms that I had come to adore changed significantly.
I'm not sure why you feel you have to "mourn the realms and move on"?
Surely you could continue to play the game in any time period you wished and with a little work use any edition of the rules?
I don't have much interest in 4E, what little I have read in the bookstore didn't appeal to "my realms".
However, I certainly wasn't going to turn my back on Toril (Abeir-or-not) as this is the setting that makes me happiest
Some of the best things that I have come across from 4E has been detailed by Diffan... I sort of consider him my personal (though unpaid) filter 
It's a shame you feel the way you do, I hope you can find "your realms", I know i'm glad to still have mine  |
|
|
|
PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:17:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
[quote]
I will check again the WoTC website, but when I checked the product listing (the interface is not super user-friendly) I only saw a new series by Ed around Elminster (?) and re-prints of old novels.
Btw. I loved the Erevis Cale trilogy! Vhostym was probably one of the greatest FR villains of all time, truly dark and Nietzschean (as I once said ). I was also really looking forward to see how the god Mask would evolve over time and what would become out of the Shadowmasters of Uthmere. Ah, well...
Bocklin
I agree. The website really has an awkward interface. Here's the novel catalog. It shows novels in all lines, but the "Brand" column will show "Forgotten Realms" for Realms novels. As you can see, there's a large number of them: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Catalog.aspx?category=novels
I appreciate the kind words re the Cale Trilogy. I gather from your second comment that you've also read the Twilight War. As for learning more about Mask, the shadowwalkers, et al, no need for an "ah well." Godborn, the first novel in the Cycle of Night Trilogy, will continue the story arc. It will release sometime in 2012 (I don't know the month just yet) and will feature (among others) Erevis's and Varra's son, Vasen. I've posted quite a few snippets on my blog over the months. Here's a link to the most recent, if you're interested: http://paulskemp.com/blog/how-about-a-bit-from-godborn/ |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 12 Jul 2011 15:21:58 |
|
|
|
Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:42:12
|
Paul, you're my ray of light this dark afternoon. So there IS some continuity and not all has been nuked. I will definitely pick up the new trilogy. I am really happy to hear that this is coming out. Thanks for the links, also.
Maybe a first step towards making peace with the new order of things...
Next step would be to start a FR campaign with the Pathfinder rules. He He He... |
Edited by - Bocklin on 12 Jul 2011 15:42:52 |
|
|
|
Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:56:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Farrel
Surely you could continue to play the game in any time period 4
(...)
It's a shame you feel the way you do, I hope you can find "your realms", I know i'm glad to still have mine
Hi Farrel,
Thanks for your positive and encouragin perspective. What I loved about my old campaigns and games was that they were in a shared world with a common continuity for all of us. Every novel, every source book and every Dragon magazine article on a FR aspect enriched our gameworld and gave more depth to the adventures our group was going through.
With the community divided, (most of) the rich past seemingly nuked away (not all of it, luckily!) and a lot of silly 4e races and elements force-fed into the new Realms I feel like I have lost that. Like you say I could ignore it, but then "my" Realms are cut from the living, shared Realms.
So either I play my campaigns in Realms that are closer to the historical version, closer to my heart, but I lose the benefit of common, shared developments coming from a continuously evolving timeline. Basically I am playing in a mothballed version of the Realms. Or I embrace the new developments and play in a "living" version of the Realms, but have to accept the disappearance of many things I liked and the appearance of many things I dislike. |
|
|
|
Aryalómė
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:59:46
|
| I don't like a lot of 4e's lore regarding FR (I love the Points of Light setting). But I love the game mechanics. To me, it's much cleaner and straightforward. Especially for us spell casters. One of the main reasons I don't like 4e lore, is because of the pantheon slaughter. They either killed them (Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, Eilistraee, Selvetarm, Mystra) or made them "aspects" of other deities (Hanali Celanil, Sehanine Moonbow, Aerdrie Faenya). |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 16:30:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
Next step would be to start a FR campaign with the Pathfinder rules. He He He...
I ran the Cormyr 3.5 "super" adventure with Pathfinder PCs with no problem at all. Basically, just remember that Pathfinder PCs are a might bit more powerful than 3.5 PCs, and therefore the Pathfinder CR of 3.5 monsters is their 3.5 CR - 1. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
Edited by - Hawkins on 12 Jul 2011 16:31:27 |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 16:37:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Farrel
Some of the best things that I have come across from 4E has been detailed by Diffan... I sort of consider him my personal (though unpaid) filter
I do what I can (where's my check by the way??  )
quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
With the community divided, (most of) the rich past seemingly nuked away (not all of it, luckily!) and a lot of silly 4e races and elements force-fed into the new Realms I feel like I have lost that. Like you say I could ignore it, but then "my" Realms are cut from the living, shared Realms.
So either I play my campaigns in Realms that are closer to the historical version, closer to my heart, but I lose the benefit of common, shared developments coming from a continuously evolving timeline. Basically I am playing in a mothballed version of the Realms. Or I embrace the new developments and play in a "living" version of the Realms, but have to accept the disappearance of many things I liked and the appearance of many things I dislike.
I think things here at Candlekeep have gotten a whole lot better since the release of 4E and the changes to the Realms. Many people (I'd actually wager most) here at CK still use, reference, and play in a pre-Spellplague Realms (myself included at times) so discussions still go strong over those products. I've never felt that the Realms were dead or un-playable now with the new content. Yes, there are articles in DDI that people might not have any use for, like obtaining and using Spellscars in their campaign, but other articles from Ed detail certain people, ideas, and the like than can easily be used in virutally any Realms time-period.
Also, I found a lot of the new novels (and there are a lot) only reference the Spellplague and drastic changes minimally, downplaying the whole event or giving little spotlight to the changes. Sure, there is some terminology used like Earth Motes, Spellscared, or Blue Fire but I've only seen it use every once in a while, not a huge staple in the novel line in my opinion.
But case in point, the Realms is still a shared setting. This community still debates on pre-spellplague ideas, spells, themes, etc. and the overall whole is a positive attitude for those wishing to explore the Realms regardless of edition. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 16:38:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
One of the main reasons I don't like 4e lore, is because of the pantheon slaughter. They either killed them (Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, Eilistraee, Selvetarm, Mystra) or made them "aspects" of other deities (Hanali Celanil, Sehanine Moonbow, Aerdrie Faenya).
I think if one looks at the books currently on the FR queue (Ed's Elminster books, Paul's Godborn books, my Shadowbane books), it becomes abundantly clear that many of those gods are hardly gone but rather exerting some major influence.
I also wouldn't make too much of the changes to the Seldarine. We mortals understand very little of divine existence, so saying a deity is an "aspect" of another one isn't as clear-cut as it may sound. (But that's a whole other discussion, and one that's been had before.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 16:54:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
One of the main reasons I don't like 4e lore, is because of the pantheon slaughter. They either killed them (Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, Eilistraee, Selvetarm, Mystra) or made them "aspects" of other deities (Hanali Celanil, Sehanine Moonbow, Aerdrie Faenya).
I think if one looks at the books currently on the FR queue (Ed's Elminster books, Paul's Godborn books, my Shadowbane books), it becomes abundantly clear that many of those gods are hardly gone but rather exerting some major influence.
I also wouldn't make too much of the changes to the Seldarine. We mortals understand very little of divine existence, so saying a deity is an "aspect" of another one isn't as clear-cut as it may sound. (But that's a whole other discussion, and one that's been had before.)
Cheers
Hm, could you point me in the direction of that scroll, Erik? I think I may have avoided or stopped participating in it due the amount of vitrol in my blood at the time. Though I would not be opposed to just hear your take on the "this deity is actually an aspect of that deity" that (apparently) occurred with the advent of the 4e Realms (considering that the "pruning" of the pantheons was probably one of my biggest problems with the 4e Realms). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Aryalómė
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 17:16:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
One of the main reasons I don't like 4e lore, is because of the pantheon slaughter. They either killed them (Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, Eilistraee, Selvetarm, Mystra) or made them "aspects" of other deities (Hanali Celanil, Sehanine Moonbow, Aerdrie Faenya).
I think if one looks at the books currently on the FR queue (Ed's Elminster books, Paul's Godborn books, my Shadowbane books), it becomes abundantly clear that many of those gods are hardly gone but rather exerting some major influence.
I also wouldn't make too much of the changes to the Seldarine. We mortals understand very little of divine existence, so saying a deity is an "aspect" of another one isn't as clear-cut as it may sound. (But that's a whole other discussion, and one that's been had before.)
Cheers
Hm, could you point me in the direction of that scroll, Erik? I think I may have avoided or stopped participating in it due the amount of vitrol in my blood at the time. Though I would not be opposed to just hear your take on the "this deity is actually an aspect of that deity" that (apparently) occurred with the advent of the 4e Realms (considering that the "pruning" of the pantheons was probably one of my biggest problems with the 4e Realms).
I definately agree with you Hawkins. I hated the pantheon pruning. But other than that, I wish we could get into races that really haven't been talked about much, like star elves (they're my favourite :3), tieflings, the genasi (I know there's a lot of general information about them, it's just I would like to see some lore about the individual types), and the Avariel. Aasimar lore would be cool too. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 17:37:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think things here at Candlekeep have gotten a whole lot better since the release of 4E and the changes to the Realms. Many people (I'd actually wager most) here at CK still use, reference, and play in a pre-Spellplague Realms (myself included at times) so discussions still go strong over those products. I've never felt that the Realms were dead or un-playable now with the new content. Yes, there are articles in DDI that people might not have any use for, like obtaining and using Spellscars in their campaign, but other articles from Ed detail certain people, ideas, and the like than can easily be used in virutally any Realms time-period.
To be fair, just because anti-4E discussion/sentiment is forbidden at Candlekeep doesn't mean people still don't harbor bad feelings.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 18:04:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think things here at Candlekeep have gotten a whole lot better since the release of 4E and the changes to the Realms. Many people (I'd actually wager most) here at CK still use, reference, and play in a pre-Spellplague Realms (myself included at times) so discussions still go strong over those products. I've never felt that the Realms were dead or un-playable now with the new content. Yes, there are articles in DDI that people might not have any use for, like obtaining and using Spellscars in their campaign, but other articles from Ed detail certain people, ideas, and the like than can easily be used in virutally any Realms time-period.
To be fair, just because anti-4E discussion/sentiment is forbidden at Candlekeep doesn't mean people still don't harbor bad feelings.
Neither the sentiment nor the discussion is forbidden. It is a very well-known fact that I do not support the 4E Realms, and I have been flat out attacked for my negative opinons on both it and the 4E ruleset.
What we try to avoid is what we've seen far too much of -- people randomly chiming in on 4E discussions just to attack it. Having a negative opinion is one thing, and stating that negative opinion is allowed -- we just want discussions more meaningful than "$E is t3h suck!!!" So long as discussions remain respectful to all involved and relevant to both the setting and the topic, it doesn't matter what the opinion is. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 18:17:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I also wouldn't make too much of the changes to the Seldarine. We mortals understand very little of divine existence, so saying a deity is an "aspect" of another one isn't as clear-cut as it may sound. (But that's a whole other discussion, and one that's been had before.)
Hm, could you point me in the direction of that scroll, Erik? I think I may have avoided or stopped participating in it due the amount of vitrol in my blood at the time. Though I would not be opposed to just hear your take on the "this deity is actually an aspect of that deity" that (apparently) occurred with the advent of the 4e Realms (considering that the "pruning" of the pantheons was probably one of my biggest problems with the 4e Realms).
I was thinking of this scroll (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15210) but I'll reiterate and restate the way I think of the gods for summary.
How a mortal chooses to see the gods is completely up to you.
The deific realm exists above and beyond our understanding. Gods that are officially listed as "aspects of the same deity" may indeed still be separate entities, which work together (much as they always have done) to gather worship. Take Sune and Hanali Celanil, for instance: both appeal to different segments of the population (humans and elves respectively) but both are fostering the greater cause of love; who's to say by presenting themselves as aspects of the same goddess they're not just joining forces to unite their priesthoods?
I figure the Spellplague was a big shake-up for the gods, and they've been forced to knit these sort of tighter alliances in order to maintain their survival and power base.
I think of all the Seldarine still existing (and there's core D&D canon basis for this, which I wrote; see Plane Above), even if some of them are closely paired to "human" gods. The gods are as much a manifestation of a cause (love, wisdom, trickery, etc.) as they are individual beings.
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
But other than that, I wish we could get into races that really haven't been talked about much, like star elves (they're my favourite :3), tieflings, the genasi (I know there's a lot of general information about them, it's just I would like to see some lore about the individual types), and the Avariel. Aasimar lore would be cool too.
I've pitched a Star Elf DDI article, but no dice there. Would there be an interest? Because I highly recommend that if you want to see something, go on the WotC boards and advocate for it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 18:21:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I've pitched a Star Elf DDI article, but no dice there. Would there be an interest? Because I highly recommend that if you want to see something, go on the WotC boards and advocate for it.
-Can you tell us why? Heh, do you even know why? I know, when the DDI first came out, a lot of very good, former DRAGON contributors (non-WotC staff) sent in submissions that were just rejected, and they never got any response, so... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 18:31:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I've pitched a Star Elf DDI article, but no dice there. Would there be an interest? Because I highly recommend that if you want to see something, go on the WotC boards and advocate for it.
-Can you tell us why? Heh, do you even know why? I know, when the DDI first came out, a lot of very good, former DRAGON contributors (non-WotC staff) sent in submissions that were just rejected, and they never got any response, so...
Nope, no idea.
One shouldn't read anything into that, however. I don't rightly remember the circumstances, and I've had a lot of work to do since then.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 19:07:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
To be fair, just because anti-4E discussion/sentiment is forbidden at Candlekeep doesn't mean people still don't harbor bad feelings.
Granted and that's fine. But like Wooley said, blanket attacks against 4E and 4E-FR with nothing to back up opinions have lessend quite a bit over the last few months. It's only every once in a while that someone complains with a one sentence quote or phrase and leaves it at that. And those have been approprately addressed by the Mods (nods head in thanks).
And I'm all for a debate on the subject as I'm a firm believer in knowledge and understanding. The more someone knows, the better equiped they are to form an opinion based on that subject matter. If someone doesn't like 4E rules, I'm all for heaing out those reasons but hope my voice as an opposition would be heard in kind. Civil discourse and all that.
|
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 19:10:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I've pitched a Star Elf DDI article, but no dice there. Would there be an interest? Because I highly recommend that if you want to see something, go on the WotC boards and advocate for it.
-Can you tell us why? Heh, do you even know why? I know, when the DDI first came out, a lot of very good, former DRAGON contributors (non-WotC staff) sent in submissions that were just rejected, and they never got any response, so...
Nope, no idea.
One shouldn't read anything into that, however. I don't rightly remember the circumstances, and I've had a lot of work to do since then.
Cheers
I wanted to help Erik with the project but I find that my knowledge of Star Elves is rather low and I didn't really know what to contribute. Game mechanics, I'm increasingly better with as my eye for balance is improving. Lore on the other hand.......not so much.
As for submissions, I'm pretty sure they're swamped with ideas from fans (some great, some not so great) so it couldn've gotten lost in the shuffle? Or maybe there hasn't been enough desire to see another Winning Races article? |
Edited by - Diffan on 12 Jul 2011 19:13:24 |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 19:18:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Granted and that's fine. But like Wooley said, blanket attacks against 4E and 4E-FR with nothing to back up opinions have lessend quite a bit over the last few months. It's only every once in a while that someone complains with a one sentence quote or phrase and leaves it at that. And those have been approprately addressed by the Mods (nods head in thanks).
And I'm all for a debate on the subject as I'm a firm believer in knowledge and understanding. The more someone knows, the better equiped they are to form an opinion based on that subject matter. If someone doesn't like 4E rules, I'm all for heaing out those reasons but hope my voice as an opposition would be heard in kind. Civil discourse and all that.
Sorry, I was speaking more of 4E FR than 4E rules. I really don't have anything against 4E rules. My impression for this board, though, is that any anti-4E Realms comment gets shot down or "warned" pretty quickly (even if it's more than a simple statement of dislike).
I agree that it's made things seem more... calm? (That doesn't seem like the right word, though). But just because there's less expressed sentiment doesn't mean it's not there. Those who felt they were "burned" have a lot further to go before such sentiment cools down. Anyway, just a minor point, really.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 20:28:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Sorry, I was speaking more of 4E FR than 4E rules. I really don't have anything against 4E rules. My impression for this board, though, is that any anti-4E Realms comment gets shot down or "warned" pretty quickly (even if it's more than a simple statement of dislike).
I agree that it's made things seem more... calm? (That doesn't seem like the right word, though). But just because there's less expressed sentiment doesn't mean it's not there. Those who felt they were "burned" have a lot further to go before such sentiment cools down. Anyway, just a minor point, really.
I hear ya and I think we (as a community) can agree that differences of opinion have their place here. Open discussion and debate on areas concerning 4E/FR-4E can be said without resorting to the silly non-sense of "my game is better than yours" type of quotes. And I'd encourage those actually looking forward to a discussion about the changes to the setting and game to start up a thread about it. That is, if participants are mature enough (which has been the case recently, *woots to the CK community at large!!*) to not let if fall into the edition-war area. |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 21:11:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I hear ya and I think we (as a community) can agree that differences of opinion have their place here. Open discussion and debate on areas concerning 4E/FR-4E can be said without resorting to the silly non-sense of "my game is better than yours" type of quotes. And I'd encourage those actually looking forward to a discussion about the changes to the setting and game to start up a thread about it. That is, if participants are mature enough (which has been the case recently, *woots to the CK community at large!!*) to not let if fall into the edition-war area.
Absolutely, I agree. I would also be interested in such a discussion/thread, if people are willing. |
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 12:19:56
|
| I've often contemplated doing something on the Sildeyuir...but I'm not sure i reallu understand just what the Spell Plague did to an already disintegrating realm.......so much left undeveloped..........but for now I'm on burnout leave after Aryvandaar... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
|
|
|
|
Aryalómė
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 14:42:41
|
| Sildeyuir was yanked into Faerie after the Spellplague, much like Evermeet and Evereska (though Evereska resides within both realms). |
|
|
|
MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe
324 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 16:52:43
|
I'd like to join the encouraging voices Brocklin. The FR community ain't dead yet. And like many I don't see the lack of new content as a serious concern - Hell, I'm a big fan but I've got nowhere near reading all the published material on the Realms. Despite this, I've got far more adventure and campaign ideas than I'll ever be able to play or create in my lifetime. I'm trying to get an FR campaign into the air as we speak, and I hope there'll be many more in the future.
As for 4E Realms, I've only given it a fleeting glance. Like many, a lot of what I say seemed out of place, but I've not discounted it. Eventually I'll get around to investigating it further, and probably even play in it (although by the time that comes there'll probably be a 6E Realms out there).
It's true momentum may have slowed, but I don't think Toril's stopped rolling yet. |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 17:12:55
|
MalariaMoon, "momentum" is exactly the right word, I think.
Back in the early days of 2E, there were tons of novels, sourcebooks from Ed's pen (yay Volo guides!) and tons of other things. I didn't like all of it, maybe even upwards of 40%... but with -so- much readily available there was a ton of stuff I did like.
By comparison, it does seem slow. DDI is too "spread out" for my tastes, as it caters primarily to the new core world and the new 4E crunch that I don't really need (I have rules for AD&D, 2E, 3E, 3.5E... and I have other game systems too... pretty much I'm done buying new crunch). And while I like some of the new novel authors, there are quite a few I can't support. So it does, indeed, feel more thin, with less momentum.
I am, very much, looking forward to the new novels by Ed, Paul Kemp, and Elaine Cunningham, though. And I have a deBie novel on its way from Amazon.
Lately, it feels like I'm on a Realms "diet" ...and I was used to the grand all-u-can-eat buffet of the 80s-90s, heh!
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 18:06:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I wanted to help Erik with the project but I find that my knowledge of Star Elves is rather low and I didn't really know what to contribute. Game mechanics, I'm increasingly better with as my eye for balance is improving. Lore on the other hand.......not so much.
-If you want information on the Star Elves, asides for the write-up of Star Elves in Elves of Faerūn, PM me your e-mail address, and I will send you the articles about Yuireshanyaar, The Yuirwood, and the Sildeyuir that were written for Elves of Faerūn, that have yet to be "published". Got about 15 pages or so. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 13 Jul 2011 18:07:17 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Feeling sad, four years later.
