| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
496 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 02:23:35
|
Poll Question:
This popped in my mind just now and I figured I'll elaborate on what I mean by 'quirky.' By quirky, I mean a character that may have a certain amount of unusual values for abilities, skills or feats. For example, you may have a Paladin or Barbarian with high intelligence while the necessary stats for class function are average. Another example could be, for instance, a wizard with significant cross-class skill points in heal because he's used to patching up his teammates when a more qualified healer is unavailable, or any character who has feats for a less than dubious role, such as an offensive-oriented class with defensive feats (ex: A rogue with Combat Expertise). So, anyone have any examples such as this, or a more appropriate term for such so I can edit this topic as such?
Pardon the 3.X examples here, but it's the ruleset I know best. 
|
|
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 04:07:01
|
I voted Not Quirky At All. Keep in mind that I don't associte class ranks, skill ranks, feats, or spell selections into how a character acts or work outside of combat. Often the class will reflect his style or how he should be (ie Rogues = Sneaky or Knights = Valorous) but that's where their role really stops for me. And if they are portrayed the complete opposite of that or different in some way that's very cool or thinking outside the box.
But when it comes to stats or mechanics, *ugh*, i hate it when designers attempt to convey how the character is though that. It's not a good median and it shouldn't be used to accurately describe how someone just "is". |
 |
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 04:13:20
|
I skipped voting, making an NPC can be very strange depending on how game is going, others could be very mundane. I though also at times played some rather strange PC characters.
Every game defines itself and I believe however normal or strange I add to the game. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 04:30:00
|
| I've added a few quirks to some of my Pc's and NPC's. Mostly in the form of flaws. My HB campaigns use the flaw system as part of my house rules, as well as character traits, to reflect a character's quirks. This takes care of making a character unique, and adds some new dynamics to the game, as well. A feat or two that helps focus the character's role and personality is sometimes useful, as well. I've had a (N)PC who has two-weapon, dodge, mobility, and whirlwind attack as part of his feat selection, and it helps to describe his fighting style, which is a sort of dance. (He's a bard/dervish.) I have another that has an unusual amount of skill points in balance, tumble, and climb, and the jump and agile feats, which helps define his extreme athleticism. (He's a wiz/mnk.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 05:17:35
|
| -I voted 'Not Quirky', but then I realized you were talking about statistical build-up, and not personality. Statistically, more often than not, my characters have feats/sufficient skill points/items that probably aren't "optimized". My current character, for example, is a Star Elf with the 'Shaky' flaw (-2 all ranged attacks), negating his inherent Elven bow affinity. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 09:39:59
|
| Lightly quirky. Just enough to give some unique flavor |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 10:54:55
|
| I prefer my character quirks to have little or no affect on core game mechanics. The 3E/3.5E paradigm allows multiclassing and crossclassing and superclassing options of all sorts which offend my traditional 1E/2E grognard sensibilities ... so I would disallow the OP's definitions of quirks ... most of my players would optimize and powergame such quirks in some sort of "abusive" manner, only a few would select such quirks more sparingly without an eye towards ultimately gaining some sort of encounter advantage. I'm not saying any of these things are wrong, just that my (and my group's) playstyle preference is toward other rules and other quirks. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 14:35:01
|
| Lightly quirky... |
|
|
|
Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 20:13:00
|
| I'm the eternal DM. My NPC's are lightly quirky - just enough to be memorable. I let my players decide how quirky their characters will be. Some are very bland, while others (like the human female fire mage who fell in love with the male dwarven fighter) are well beyond plenty quirky. The players of these two characters (both male in a group that was 50% female playes) had usin stiches as they role-played their budding romance, their wedding, and thier plans for a happily ever after "just as soon as we finish tracking down these slavers." It was great fun, and never detracted from the campaign. Excellent role-playing. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
|
|
|
Abenabin Gimblescrew
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 12:59:08
|
| I usually vary my character depending on the situation, but on average it is "lightly quirky". Most people like to "maximize" statistical power, but I tend not to. In fact when I DM I usually hand out feats, skill ranks, or abilities as rewards instead of actual treasure or magical items, especially if I'm going for a low-magic campaign. I'm more about the story-telling and in-depth character personality, then caring for the statistics. If statistics get in the way I simply just break the rule and make an exception for the campaign. Story always trumps rules at my gaming table and sometimes I have got in arguments with other DMs over it, but we usually can come to a civil compromise. |
Invention is the key to staying ahead of the competition. |
|
|
|
Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 16:28:44
|
| As quirky as needed for the story, I don't follow the rules that PC's use |
z455t |
|
|
|
ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 18:55:59
|
you can guess what I voted! :D
I have once played a Racoon Hengeyokai Wu-Jen who wore Armour and wieded a Spear in combat. she was named Agatsuma Shinenome (yes, mixing th enames of two AWESOME characters from a manga called Loveless), and she used such spells as Steel Scarf and Burning Hands, before wading into mellee combat in her Hybrid form. I was planning on getting her levels of Shapeshifter. =w=
and then their is my Half-Giant Psychic Warrior... who doesn't use any weapons! XD he fights using his fists! he has the Psionic Body feat, Psionic Fist, Narrow Mind, and Psionic Meditation. barring circumstantial penalties he can automatically Psionically focus as a move-action, take a 5-foot Step and expend his Psionic Focus to use his Psionic Fist. ^____^ not to mention, he still has Powers he can use, and the Racial Psi-Like Ability of Stomp 1/day.
oh, oh, oh! and don't forget my Half-Orc Bard with Oratory as his main Performance skill! he's a revolutionary! I also have a Bugbear Bard, sort of the enforcer and voice of the Changeling Barbarian/Rogue/Ranger who leads their group of Bandits (the above Half-Orc not being a part of that Band).
so yeh... =w= quirks. I love'em. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
|
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 01:42:54
|
| Hmm, does a gold half-dragon bard/paladin count? He's as stuffy as they come, fights with the standard sword and shield, but he often sings in battle, boosting his and his allies' abilities. He's also got the chivalrous fighter flaw, and won't attack females unless they attack him first. Statistically, he's got a high charisma, but his wisdom is only moderate. He gets himself into a lot of fights he shouldn't, due to his short temper. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 17:16:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Abenabin Gimblescrew
In fact when I DM I usually hand out feats, skill ranks, or abilities as rewards instead of actual treasure or magical items, especially if I'm going for a low-magic campaign.
-An interesting idea. Does that ever make things out of balance? As in, one player becomes a lot more powerful than the others because of such rewards? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 17:30:30
|
| I've used something I call PXP as rewards for good role-playing or for especially witty or funny in- or out-of-game moments or comments, where the player experience points can be collected and tin for feats, skill points, and ability points. My players learned to build them up for particular feats or items they wanted, to improve their PC's. And it made the game more interesting and fun, since they got more into the ROLE-playing aspect! I used a point-buy system, where various perks were worth a certain number of PXP. for example, two PXP could be traded for one character XP, for when a player was close to leveling up, but fell just short of the mark. Or for an additional HP, one could trade in 10 PXP. Was helpful for the "squishy" Pc types like wizards. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 17:45:20
|
-Wow, that's a really cool idea. I usually give little EXP bonuses for good roleplaying, or doing very in-character things, and stuff like that, but I might steal that and modify it. I've been thinking about adding into my games 'Fate Points', or something like that, similar to Star Wars 'Force Points', and Eberron 'Action Points', and I think I might marry the two. Use a 'Fate Point' to give you a little bonus to an action. Save up a few, and you can, for "free", buy a new feat or X amount of Skill Points, or similar stuff. Hmm... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Abenabin Gimblescrew
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2011 : 06:54:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Abenabin Gimblescrew
In fact when I DM I usually hand out feats, skill ranks, or abilities as rewards instead of actual treasure or magical items, especially if I'm going for a low-magic campaign.
-An interesting idea. Does that ever make things out of balance? As in, one player becomes a lot more powerful than the others because of such rewards?
My method has similarities with Alystra's but I govern what is given the PCs don't have a say. Otherwise it isn't a reward it is a purchase - at least in my eyes.
As for game balance it is never an issue. If I give something powerful to them then it is only fair I tip something in the scale for their enemies. It might be more resources, more intel, their own special ability, a new ally they didn't have previously, or more training or learning. I usually always have the scales tipped against my PC to begin with and I've never had a game balance issue. However, all the rewards handed out fit specific to the character getting it. Something I just don't hand out without putting a lot of thought into it before I give it to the player in question.
|
Invention is the key to staying ahead of the competition. |
Edited by - Abenabin Gimblescrew on 28 Jun 2011 16:20:35 |
|
|
|
Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2011 : 22:09:41
|
I like adding just enough quirks to make the character unique and not a cookie cutter stereotype. An unusual stat or non-weapon prof (I play 2nd ed.) and different background or personality can really keep things fresh.
:D |
"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
|
|
|
Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2011 : 22:16:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
I'm the eternal DM. My NPC's are lightly quirky - just enough to be memorable. I let my players decide how quirky their characters will be. Some are very bland, while others (like the human female fire mage who fell in love with the male dwarven fighter) are well beyond plenty quirky. The players of these two characters (both male in a group that was 50% female playes) had usin stiches as they role-played their budding romance, their wedding, and thier plans for a happily ever after "just as soon as we finish tracking down these slavers." It was great fun, and never detracted from the campaign. Excellent role-playing.
And that's probably the best answer, "Excellent role-playing." The right chemistry in a group of players can make any PC/NPC memorable. |
"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2011 : 23:39:52
|
| Ah, Abenabin, like you, I also govern what they can recieve, but I do so by determining how many PXP I award for any given action or PC/player comment. As mentioned, I give them out for exceptionally good/helpful/amusing/or in-character comments, actions, or ideas that a player brings into the game, or sometimes for out-of-game humor that is particularly relevant to the story events occuring. Based on how much entertainment or impact it brings in, I award the points, and players are allowed to use them as they wish, in reference to a point-scale of value. For example,while they could spend two points for an exp for the PC, it would take a hundred fifty of the PXP to earn a feat, or two hundred to earn an ability point. And so on. They get to choose how they spend them, but they must stay within the predetermined rules of PXP values. If a player only has fifty, they can't buy a feat, so it keeps them balanced and makes them consider how they want to spend those precious points when they get them. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Abenabin Gimblescrew
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2011 : 00:22:59
|
I get what you are saying, Alystra. I think you have a sound system, but I just prefer to be one that keeps track of that to help the PCs avoid temptation. If a PC tells me what they are aiming for I usually work with them in order to help them achieve it (as long as it isn't meant to completely break the system). It can be as small as me just ignoring the dexterity requirement for two-weapon fighting for a dwarf character that wears plate and a low dexterity score to say awarding something like a shapechanging ability like the doppleganger for a rogue who is a master of disguises that follows a table of progression on how strong it becomes as he/she levels.
While I don't knock the ability to play characters with templates, stronger than norm races, and what not - I try to encourage players to play the standard races more by opening up these avenues. I think most that have played under me have enjoyed the way I handed out the powers, feats, or skill points and felt it fit their character and how they did it. I know some would prefer not to have to deal with the record keeping that entails and I don't see either method wrong. I'm a just and fair DM, I swear!....Most of the time.  |
Invention is the key to staying ahead of the competition. |
Edited by - Abenabin Gimblescrew on 29 Jun 2011 00:23:22 |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2011 : 00:30:56
|
| Oh, I keep track, BELIEVE me..... I make each player write down how many points they currently have, and change it when they spend some. I also keep track of what they spend those points on, to make sure they are not doing something underhanded. I actually had a player try to do that with his PC's standard abilities, where he tried to allow a charater to use a spell that was not on his class's spell list. And he was fudging die rolls, too..... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 00:19:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I voted Not Quirky At All. Keep in mind that I don't associte class ranks, skill ranks, feats, or spell selections into how a character acts or work outside of combat. Often the class will reflect his style or how he should be (ie Rogues = Sneaky or Knights = Valorous) but that's where their role really stops for me. And if they are portrayed the complete opposite of that or different in some way that's very cool or thinking outside the box.
But when it comes to stats or mechanics, *ugh*, i hate it when designers attempt to convey how the character is though that. It's not a good median and it shouldn't be used to accurately describe how someone just "is".
I'm sorry, what?!
You don't think mechanics should reflect the character in any way?
You don't think that a character established in background and/or through roleplay as smart, erudite and well-educated should have a greater chance of deciphering fragment of a note written in a language related to Chondathan, but which none of the characters has learnt?
You don't think that a character whose backstory indicates that he learned his trade as a warrior as a military scout during a war in elven forests should have skills that make him better at moving quietly through forests, surviving in the wilderness, orienteering, hunting, etc.?
You think that the languages spoken by a character should in no way reflect his backstory or origin and vice versa?
I can't agree with you. In my opinion, the mechanics ought to allow for modelling the character in a way that fits the concept and if they do not, the mechanics are flawed. Similarly, if the mechanics provide a perverse incentive to have all characters take certain skills, feats or abilities, regardless of whether this would suit their concepts and backstories or not, this is not good design.
I want the skills and abilities of a character to reflect his prior career, what he has learned by choice or accident, who trained him, even his philosophical leanings. I think that there is likely to be a large difference in personality and approach between a mage whose studies incline toward spells that dazzle, disorient or distract, at the very most disable painlessly, and another who favours spells of death and destruction, starting with Burning Hands and working his way up.
A character from a noble family, who learned swordsmanship from an early age, but whose studies were focused on the duel with a fashionable blade and against unarmoured opponents, will have a very different way of fighting than a veteran soldier, who might not be a swordsman, but who knows how to kill. These characters should have different capabilities, because of they don't, the game system isn't doing its job in distinguishing between things that the audience can very much see are different. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
|
|
|
|
Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 04:17:56
|
| "Quirky" can all to often become "annoying." Sure NPCs who are important (and even some who aren't) should be unique, but also "normal" in a sense, or representative of a type of person in Faerun. Gamers have a similar problem with assuming the mentally ill are funny and harmless (which they only sometimes are), and while encounters with batshit NPCs can be quite amusing, there's also the time when the insanity should make the players uncomfortable. |
|
|
|
Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 22:38:48
|
| I voted Barely Quirky. I am not a fan of characters who have all sorts of weird personality traits, especially the ones who cannot control them. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
|
|
|
mikie
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 01:46:01
|
I would have to say...lightly. i like to add just a bit to give the NPC "depth". It also helps out the player/characters to remember the NPC if they run into him/ her again. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
How quirky do you like your chars and NPCs?
