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Mr Faust
Acolyte
2 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 16:22:17
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Alrighty Ladies & Gents,
I am currently running a rather large Forgotten Realms Campaign (3E) with a number of sub plots and all the works. We'll just say this campaign is monstrous and should keep everyone busy for quite sometime, but enough ramblings lets get on to the point.
I have always been intrigued with Undermountain and the Mad Wizard who dwells with in. As a player we have only visited the dungeon of dungeons, very few times and never really got the feel of the grand scope of it all. Now that I am running my own FR campaign I would like to go all out with this dungeon and make it as "complete" as one can. (I will be using the 3E source book for the maps and "Unique" rooms only, I'll pass on the adventure mainly because the campaign is set between 2E & 3E start years and I don't like the fact they killed Halaster off in such a boring manner.) Though I highly doubt that any adventuring party can complete all of Undermountain it would still be useful having a a complete idea of how it is set up and populated as explained in the source book. Plus the beauty of the dungeon is the portals that allow for brief encounters with the dungeon only to be whisked away.
So here is my dilemma, I've read through the 3E source book plus both 2E box sets and their maps so I have a good understanding of the lay out of the dungeons and such. Though I find that there is nothing but portals and giant pits that connect each lair, pity for the PC's.
Anyhow, the first thing that caught my eye was the Mad Wizard's Lair and the fact that it was nothing more then a sick joke with very little reward! So that leaves me to ask "where the h&ll is Halaster's true lair?" An why does it remain lost? With all the source material for Undermountain released over the years you would think that someone at some point had to have made some sort of reference to it or where it can be found. I'd like to use it in my campaign but I just can't figure what to do about this or where to place it. 9 levels of madness with all sorts of sub-levels is making it difficult to figure out where it would have been or if needed be to make it.
So my question is does anyone know of Halaster's true lair and where it would be located? Any help would be great, I've been asking on a number of forums with not even a peep so I figured I'd ask the experts of Forgotten Realms.
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All Your Base Belong To Us |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 16:31:37
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Halaster's true lair is Undermountain. Everything there (with the notable exception of the Lost Temple) is under his dominion and exists at his whim. All the treasures and lore and magic scattered throughout the nine levels and dozens of sublevels are his, and he keeps track of them all (which is one of the reasons why he's mad).
That's the brilliant thing about Undermoutain: there is no center to get to. There's only the journey, with no grand destination, and each time you come back, the route has changed. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 17:00:29
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What Hoondatha said. Also there is a trilogy of 2E adventures that take place in 3 sub-levels of Undermountain. If you can get your hands on those, you can either run them as they are or alter them to have even more fun places to toy with the foolish adventurers that are your campaign's PCs.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 17:36:11
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| Agreed. All three of those modules (The Lost Level, Maddgoth's Castle, and Stardock) are excellent. Stardock is the only one that has grand repurcussions (it shows Halaster's Highharvestide), but you can easily drop that and just make use of the Crystal Labyrinth, which is one of the more sadistic dungeons TSR ever published. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 17:43:50
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| And don't forget to make use of all the traps available in any version of D&D and devise your own and just put them all over the place. Make the characters wet themselves. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Mr Faust
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 18:54:53
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| So you think I am better off using the 2e maps over the 3e? |
All Your Base Belong To Us |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 19:28:36
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The 2e maps are more complete than the 3e maps for most parts of the dungeon. IIRC, Expedition to Undermountain's maps for the upper levels were severely cropped versions of the poster maps from the 2e box sets. And they were images incorporated into the text, which made their value close to nil from a playing standpoint. A couple of the deepest levels got maps in EtU that had never before been mapped, but for most levels the 2e maps are more complete and far more useful.
The other nice thing about Undermountain is that you can grab dungeons from anywhere else and place them in as sublevels or even full levels as you desire. The Hordes of Dragonspear adventure had a nasty labyrinth that would make a fine sub level, and there's also the 3e mega-module World's Largest Dungeon. I've never read it, but the title sounds promising. Grab more things from wherever strikes your fancy, and then load them up with all the monsters you've always wanted to see in action. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 11:46:33
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| Ad Hoondatha said, the 2e are more complete. The 3e just happens to have some maps in it that aren't in the 2e ones. You might also be able to still find some stuff on wizards.com, they had detailed a whole bunch of rooms on the 1st level for 3E, and even if you don't use those, there are nice print out versions of that level you can make use of. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 14:22:23
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| Another good source for adding sub-levels to Undermountain is WGR1-Castle Greyhawk. Also originally constructed by a mad archmage. Lots of nifty trap rooms, weird rooms, and even a bit of an ecology. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 17:50:14
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| Also any random dungeon generator. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 18:26:11
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| I always liked the abandoned beholder city in the last of the Beholder Trio of 2e modules. Multiple levels, all of them "gone native" with either creatures that just wandered in, or the descendants of beholder slave races. Multiple levels, each area unique, it had a lot of promise. You could always put that way down in the depths of Undermountain, on the reasoning that the Melairkin dwarves drove out the beholders when they first came to the area, and now Halaster's using it for his own nefarious and insane purposes. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 11:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Re: Undermountain levels, the 3e City of Splendors sourcebook has a complete list of levels and sublevels in Undermountain.
Yeah I had used that to make a side view map of all the levels...then the Undermountain 3E adventure book came out and they had a nicer, colored in version of MY IDEA   anyways they forgot a few sublevels...I may scan it sometime to show everyone.
Anyways, use the above mentioned book as well, since the city above the dungeon is also good to have more info on.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 11:48:34
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| This reminded me. If you can get your hands on the 2E book, Skullport, that details a good chunk of the southern portion of the 3rd level of Undermountain, since that is where Skullport is located. An alternate base of operations for the characters. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 13:25:05
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And there's a Dragon article, I think in the early 200's but I'm not sure, that details the Promenade Temple, which takes up much of the eastern part of Level 3.
Skullport and good drow right next to each other. What could be better? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 13:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And there's a Dragon article, I think in the early 200's but I'm not sure, that details the Promenade Temple, which takes up much of the eastern part of Level 3.
Skullport and good drow right next to each other. What could be better?
If you can find the exact one, please share because I would like to access that as well.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 15:39:43
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I'll just throw in a mention for the venerable (circa 1981) Sword & Sorcery published Grimtooth books (Grimtooth's Traps, Traps Too, Traps Fore, Traps Ate, Traps Lite, Wurst Traps, perhaps others). Fantasy Flight's d20/OGL Traps & Treachery book isn't bad either. The few traps supplied by TSR/Wizbro tend to be generic, well-known, and entirely boring ... though sometimes they roll out some real killers.
Any dungeon can be as deadly as Undermountain. Or Undermountain can actually be made deadlier still. Note that most of these traps are of the inescapable sudden death/TPK variety and thus require some careful nerfing. They also can't be used too frequently since players/victims remember them vividly. Tomb of Horrors is a fine little warmup death dungeon, although the remakes are tame compared to the original 1E S1 module. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 09 Feb 2011 15:46:15 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 15:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Tomb of Horrors is a fine little warmup death dungeon, although the remakes are tame compared to the original 1E S1 module.
Speaking of which, you may also feel free to steal stuff from that dungeon for some of the lower levels of Undermountain. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 16:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And there's a Dragon article, I think in the early 200's but I'm not sure, that details the Promenade Temple, which takes up much of the eastern part of Level 3.
'Tis "If You Need Help -- Ask the Drow!" in DRAGON #176, which tells all about the Promenade. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 16:08:16
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| That would be the one. Thanks, Sage. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 17:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And there's a Dragon article, I think in the early 200's but I'm not sure, that details the Promenade Temple, which takes up much of the eastern part of Level 3.
'Tis "If You Need Help -- Ask the Drow!" in DRAGON #176, which tells all about the Promenade.
There was also "The Reports From Undermountain" in 227. It doesn't have any maps as I recall, but it does update some things. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 22:40:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And there's a Dragon article, I think in the early 200's but I'm not sure, that details the Promenade Temple, which takes up much of the eastern part of Level 3.
'Tis "If You Need Help -- Ask the Drow!" in DRAGON #176, which tells all about the Promenade.
There was also "The Reports From Undermountain" in 227. It doesn't have any maps as I recall, but it does update some things.
Some of that info was later included in printed FR sourcebooks as I recall, and further expanded upon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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UnderMountain Questions
