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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 08:48:15
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How exactly did Wulfgar die? Has his death been chronicled in a novel? I'm hoping he went down fighting somewhere for a worthy cause.....
P.S. What became of AEGIS FANG?
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Edited by - jordanz on 15 Jan 2011 08:55:04
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 09:15:10
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| It hasn't been explained as of yet. Maybe soon. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 15:50:47
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I would assume old age. Though it could be anything, Icewind Dale is a place designed to kill people.
There was a Dragon Magazine article, I forget which issue exactly, which presented the stats for the various weapons from the Drizzt books that the players could concievably get their hands on in the story. It mentioned that Aegis-Fang was in the possession of the dwarves of Mithril Hall as one of their most valued treasures, and would only be loaned to the adventurers if they had proven themselves true friends of Mithril Hall. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 16:07:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I would assume old age. Though it could be anything, Icewind Dale is a place designed to kill people.
There was a Dragon Magazine article, I forget which issue exactly, which presented the stats for the various weapons from the Drizzt books that the players could concievably get their hands on in the story. It mentioned that Aegis-Fang was in the possession of the dwarves of Mithril Hall as one of their most valued treasures, and would only be loaned to the adventurers if they had proven themselves true friends of Mithril Hall.
That was back the first time Wulfgar died, when they were able to retrieve it and bring it back to the hall. If he died in the wilds somewhere, they might not have gotten it back. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 16:14:15
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| The article in question is meant to be for 4e, after the time skip. Very specific on that point. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 16:16:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
The article in question is meant to be for 4e, after the time skip. Very specific on that point.
Ah... did not know that. Thanks! |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 16:24:23
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| Dragon 386, page 25-33 for the releavent article. It also contains stats for Icingdeath, Twinkle, Taulmaril, Regis' pendant, Jarlaxle's eye patch, Artemis' dagger, Khazid-hea, and Guenhyvar, as well as scenarios on how to get ahold of them, and stats for lesser versions of the enchantments on those items. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 04:10:14
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| Another reason to stay away from 4th, I think. Did they forget that Aegis-Fang was BOUND to Wulfgar? The original 2nd ed stats even mentioned that fact! He was the ONLY one who could use its full power! For anyone else, it simply would not return.... Kinda pointless to try to wield it because of that, IMO. Since he had gone back to Icewind Dale, it should either have stayed there as a relic of his tribe, or if the dwarves of Mithril Hall DID take it back, they would have put it in the tomb with all their kings and heroes, and no one would touch it. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 05:31:04
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| IDK if its bound to Wulfgar if he's dead. The only thing that Keirstaad couldn't do was magically recall it. Because Wulfgar was still alive. And of course Bloog was simply to stupid to understand its recall power. Yet it probably wouldn't work for him as well because Wulfgar wasn't dead. So I want to ask. Does the magic bonding a weapon to the owner go away after the owner dies? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 05:59:01
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Wulfgar's tale is likely done.
We don't need to know how he dies in the 100 yr jump.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 06:24:32
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| Fans of RAS would like to know;-). Like me. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 15:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Wulfgar's tale is likely done.
We don't need to know how he dies in the 100 yr jump.
Fans of any character would like to know what happened to that character in the timejump. It doesn't matter that the tale is done -- we want to know how it ended. This is not an unreasonable desire if you've read multiple novels that feature a particular character. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 18:59:17
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As far as the mechanics go, it does function as a heavy thrown weapon and by 4e rules any magic weapon once thrown will return. I would assume the binding to Wulfgar faded after his death.
Regardless, it's simply there for people who would like such a weapon in their campaign without being bound by the novels. The players getting their hands on it isn't canon, though I would imagine it being kept in Mithril Hall as a prized treasure is the most likely fate of the weapon. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 02:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Wulfgar's tale is likely done.
We don't need to know how he dies in the 100 yr jump.
Fans of any character would like to know what happened to that character in the timejump. It doesn't matter that the tale is done -- we want to know how it ended. This is not an unreasonable desire if you've read multiple novels that feature a particular character.
Agreed. Perhaps Wulfgar had offspring.... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 04:00:10
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on maybe not, that hammer would only work from Wulfgar or one of his line.
which also may mean that hammer may just be under a cairn along with the body of Wulfgar.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 07:19:19
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Regardless of whether or not it would only work for Wulfgar even after his death as far as the throwing thing goes, it's still an object that's very well suited for picking up and hitting people with. You know, the manner in which hammers were meant to be used.
Edit; in regards to the likelyhood or lack there of of anyone getting their hands on the hammer;
quote:
As the weapons of Bruenor’s adopted children, these two items hold more importance than any other in Mithral Hall. It’s likely that they would only be bestowed upon great heroes or friends of the dwarves. Only characters who fought in a life-or-death battle to save Mithral Hall or went on a quest of the magnitude that discovered the Hall in the first place would be deemed worthy of receiving the weapons.
So the dwarves aren't hypothetically handing them out to any good natured adventurers with their hands out. Or maybe they are, if the DM of the particular campaign is rather lazy.
In the possible situation of the hammer being in Wulfgar's grave, well, that makes it insanely easy for someone else to get their hands on it. Stumble on a grave, kick a few rocks over, shiney new mithral hammer. Graverobbing is an ever popular and profitable passtime among adventuerers, after all. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Edited by - Chosen of Asmodeus on 17 Jan 2011 07:28:26 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 07:36:29
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Any magic weapon thrown returns? Okay, now that's just silly. Unless it specifically has the returning ability, that should not work. Otherwise, you just end up with a magic boomerang....
As far as the bonding goes, I think it would have to be someone of his line, assuming it was not completely specific to that owner. But it would have to be bound to the new owner in any case to use the returning power and the full bonus. (I've got the original stats somewhere... +5 and returns for Wulfy, +2 for others, IIRC?) But since he did not have any kids of his own that we know of, that ability likely died with him. Coleson does not count- she was not really his. So neither she nor any children of hers would be able to use that power of it. Come to think of it, that might be a good plot hook for her finding out the truth about whose daughter she is.... And I believe Wulfgar died of old age, from the things I've seen on-line. Hey, he's human- it had to happen SOME time... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 17:58:28
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Well, not any magic weapon. Any magic weapon that can be used as a throwing weapon. If Obould were to hurl his sword at someone, it wouldn't return. Artemis' dagger would. Under the new rules, anyway. The specific returning property is no longer on the list, since its standard.
On the subject of the weapons bonding...well, as it stands its a level 19 craghammer with a +4 enchantment that can be used as a heavy thrown weapon and knocks targets prone on a critical hit. There's no mention of any bonding to a weilder. So as far as I can tell when Wulfgar died, the ability reset and anyone with sufficent strenth to pick the thing up can use it as intended. I'd like to think that the dwarf gods are more pragmatic than to let such a fine weapon go to waste after the short lifespan of a human.
Out of curiosity, this bit about "it should only work for a member of Wulfgar's bloodline"; is there a source on that somewhere or is that just an assumption everyone is making? |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 18:10:02
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| It's based mostly on the original source description both in the novel and the weapon stats (my version is from the Encyclopedia Magicka, vol. 4) where it stated that Aegis-Fang was created SPECIFICALLY for Wulfgar by Bruenor, using a very difficult ritual to the dawrven gods that named Wulfgar as the wielder. That is why it ONLY ever worked for him. Even after he "died" the first time, (never mind that he was in the Abyss) it still did not function for others in the same way. As to the 4th ed bit on returning weapons, I understood that it was meant for thrown weapons- that is why I said it was silly. It has ALWAYS been a specific weapon property before 4th; to say it is now "standard" for all thrown weapons is, IMO, just a cheap cop-out. Used to be, you could loose a good magic dagger if you threw it and it could not be retrieved- UNLESS it was a retruning weapon. They've taken all the fun out of the game..... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 18:57:38
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| Eh, people want to keep their hands on their weapons. I say let 'em. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 21:08:10
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| Sure, but then where's the urgency of remembering to retrieve your signature magic dagger everytime you chuck it into an orc's throat? I have been playing long enough to remember a DM reminding the group to pick up thrown knives, shurikens, etc, or risk loosing them- even more so ig they were magic. That was part of what made the game feel "real" and made the players stop to think about the "after-battle"- ie, retrieving weapons, checking for items on fallen enemies, or even just burning bodies to keep them from attracting predators to the camp or whatever. Making all throw weapons auto-returnable (I'm assuming that works even with CURSED items, which would TOTALLY suck...) just makes everything too easy. Where's the originality and mystique of an item like Aegis-Fang that USED TO BE unique, but know is just one of a thousand such items? It's turned magig daggers and the like into a video-game infinite-ammo cheat..... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 21:20:40
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Obviously Wulfgar and Aegis-Fang are both dancing with Cattie-Brie in Iruladoon.  |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 21:48:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Sure, but then where's the urgency of remembering to retrieve your signature magic dagger everytime you chuck it into an orc's throat? I have been playing long enough to remember a DM reminding the group to pick up thrown knives, shurikens, etc, or risk loosing them- even more so ig they were magic. That was part of what made the game feel "real" and made the players stop to think about the "after-battle"- ie, retrieving weapons, checking for items on fallen enemies, or even just burning bodies to keep them from attracting predators to the camp or whatever. Making all throw weapons auto-returnable (I'm assuming that works even with CURSED items, which would TOTALLY suck...) just makes everything too easy. Where's the originality and mystique of an item like Aegis-Fang that USED TO BE unique, but know is just one of a thousand such items? It's turned magig daggers and the like into a video-game infinite-ammo cheat.....
Well, on the bright side it means I'll never have to read another fight scene in which someone reacts with surprise when a magic weapon returns to its weilders hands. They'll know its coming from now on.
I personally thing you place too much importance on the detail; don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the little details, but one like this that just adds padding to a story or game isn't to my taste. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 22:05:25
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| Sadly, it's not just ONE detail, it's a million little details that seem to indicate a lack of concern for previous continuity, even within the core rules of the game. this appears to be just one more example. If the rules and established concepts get swept under the rug for a new edition, what's the point of playing that edition? Not saying that 4th is the only one where this has happened, but it seems to be much more drastic in 4th. To me, it just feels like a very different game, and not in a good way. And that surprise you mentioned is another aspect of such weapons that has always been part of the fun. It's much more interesting to read a fight scene where the hero throws a (insert weapon here), and the baddie grins thinking he's unarmed, only to get a nasty surprise when it shows up in the hero's hand again! Far better for story-telling than a simple "Oh, he threw it- now it's back in his hand again (yawn)." That's what made Aegis-Fang so special. now it's just another returning hammer. (Guess Thor needs to get a better one, too, now that I think of it....) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 03:18:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
A And I believe Wulfgar died of old age, from the things I've seen on-line. Hey, he's human- it had to happen SOME time...
I hope that's not true. Because that would be so utterly lame
That would be akin to Bruenor dieing from chocking on a chicken bone.
Wulfgar, as much as anyone deserved a warrior's death. The guy was the ultimate barbarian, he worshiped an aspect of Tempus... Salvaltore needs a trilogy to handle this - or in the very least a one shot novel to chronicle Wulfgar's last and most epic adventure. It should be every bit as monumental as Guantlgrym, perhaps having something to do with uniting the Barbarian tribes. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 03:22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
A And I believe Wulfgar died of old age, from the things I've seen on-line. Hey, he's human- it had to happen SOME time...
I hope that's not true. Because that would be so utterly lame
That would be akin to Bruenor dieing from chocking on a chicken bone.
Wulfgar, as much as anyone deserved a warrior's death. The guy was the ultimate barbarian, he worshiped an aspect of Tempus... Salvaltore needs a trilogy to handle this - or in the very least a one shot novel to chronicle Wulfgar's last and most epic adventure. It should be every bit as monumental as Guantlgrym, perhaps having something to do with uniting the Barbarian tribes.
With the death and afterlifes granted to Regis anad especially Cattie....I would be very satisfied if Wulgar's end was as good as dying of old age "offstage"! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 03:39:38
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I actually do hope Wulfgar died of old age; someone has to. Its annoyingly rare in fiction. Epic last stands are, pardon the pun, done to death. I mean, yea, Obould did. Which is pretty badass in and of itself; the orc so tough that only time itself could kill him. So, let Wulfgar have that too.
I am rather annoyed by the everyone ending up in the magical forest thing. How is Meilikki getting Moradin and Tempus' faithful? |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 04:21:46
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Mielikki only got Cattie0brie and Reagis.
Wulgar went over to WArrior's Rest to kick arse all day and party all night in the Halls of Tempus |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 04:44:29
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Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What? |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Wulfgar question -GUANTLGRYM SPOILER
