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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 22:19:38
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SO
I would like to run a Forgotten Realms game. I've never undertaken running a game in a published setting. I typically run published adventures and random homebrew stuff, nothing too extravagant.
While not extremely knowledgable with the Realms, I have read every Drizzt book and am about to dive into the Ed Greenwood books (where should I start with those btw?). Most of my players are familiar with the Salvatore stuff as well so I will probably use locations and events from those books for now.
The thing is, I have no idea where to start. A few questions:
1. Are all of the 3e FR books compatible with 3.5? I can't get any clear info on whether or not the Campaign Setting and the various supplments are actually 3e or 3.5 material, and if some of them are 3e, can i use them without tweaking? Me and my group are pretty rules light players anyways. A little unbalance never hurt us and usually goes unnoticed.
2. Should I start with a large city like Waterdeep and run everything there for awhile before branching out? Or start small?
3. Which books are neccesary? Obviously the Campaign Setting, but what about the Players Guide to Faurun, monsters of Faerun etc? Are any of the books pretty much a waste of money?
4. ANy other advice?
Thanks : )
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 22:35:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
SO
1. Are all of the 3e FR books compatible with 3.5? You can use the source books pretty much as, really I find it harder to keep up with which source book updates previous source books.
I can't get any clear info on whether or not the Campaign Setting and the various supplments are actually 3e or 3.5 material, and if some of them are 3e, can i use them without tweaking? Here is a link for the webupdates
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a
Only to FR books are listed: FRCS and MoF.
2. Should I start with a large city like Waterdeep and run everything there for awhile before branching out? Or start small? The answer is, depends. Sorry but we would need some idea of what you're planning to do with your campaign. If you just want to go hopping through published adventures, then Waterdeep or somewhere in Cormyr is pretty good. Heck Undermountain alone can consume an entire campaign without ever leaving Waterdeep.
3. Which books are neccesary? Obviously the Campaign Setting, but what about the Players Guide to Faurun, monsters of Faerun etc? Are any of the books pretty much a waste of money? All of the books are nice, depending on what your campaign plans are. I recommend FRCS and PGtF as the minimums. Typically a published adventure includes all the monster stats anyway. If you're going to develop a campaign arc of your own then I'ld really want more details before making further recommendations.
4. ANy other advice?
Thanks : )
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Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 22:36:11
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3) Players Guide to Faerun is a must, in my mind. Monsters of Faerun is 3.0, but if you find it cheap, it's a decent buy. I would recommend Magic of Faerun (3.0), seems to hit a lot of true-realms flavor. I did not love Races of Faerun. I guess, with Salvatore angle you might enjoys the Sons of Grummsh adventure (I'll be honest, I haven't spend much time with it).
2) If you're starting at low levels, you should also start small - in a town or village, I would think.
1) Players Guide to Faerun is 3.5 update to the 3.0 books, that's why find it essential in parallel to the FRCS.
4) What are you thinking for your campaign arc? I'm sure there are plenty of us who will throw our 2 cp in. |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 22:53:10
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Ionik: Clicked the link, not quite sure what it is showing me though. I am gathering that only the FRCS and MoF were 3e and so they got updates for 3.5 via these online files and the rest of the FR books that were printed are for since they were printed near the end of or after 2003? I just get confused because none of the FR books say "Updated for use with 3.5) on the first page like the rest of the 3.5 d&d books. Although Rhewtani is saying several of the books are 3.0....hmm.
Rhewtani: What kind of an update is PGtF to the 3.0 books? How much material does it actually encompass? Is it supposed to take the place of certain 3.0 books, if so which ones?
Both: I'm really not sure what direction I want to go with in my campaign, although I would rather not run any published adventures, I've been doing too much of that lately. I guess I planned on gathering some source material, flipping through it and getting inspiration from those on where to start the game. The problem is Im not sure which books to acquire to start with : )
Thank you so much for the help and responses guy. I apologize for my lengthy questions but this is all a bit daunting to me. Nothing is cut and dry like, say, the Ebberon setting. I just want to make sure I've got all my eggs in one basket before I start! |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 23:18:52
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The 3.0 and 3.5 books are compatible. There are rules tweaks to feats and Prestige Classes between the FRCS and the FRPB; also several spells were simplified (and IMO dumbed town too much).
I would advise going over the rules that matter to your group and deciding amongst yourselves which version of these changes you'll follow. This will make play easier and keep the rules from getting in the way of the fun.
If your players are an organized and focused bunch, a place like Waterdeep is a great start because it gives you a nearly endless supply of adventure hooks to run with.
If your group is the type that will go in several directions at once, I suggest starting small...say Shadowdale...where you can easily set the availability of gear and supplies, and minimize the number of excuses your players will have to trip up your adventure plot.
A final word of advice: don't worry about buying all or most of the books. Besides a plublished adventure book (or one of your own devising), the FRCS and the FRPG are all the Realms books you'll need to get started.
There are products like Waterdeep: City of Splendors that can obviously help you run a game in Waterdeep, but if you're starting at 1st level, divide your attention evenly between your adventure and whatever needs to be done to get your player started.
The later are just getting under way and have a long haul ahead of them before they reach 20th level, which means you have all the time in the world to see how your campaign unfolds and decide which Realms products will help you to further guide your campaign. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 23:26:42
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The Player's Guide updated 3e FR feats, prestige classes, epic rules and added some magic items, psionic, vile and exalted stuff. It changed the Realms cosmology to the World Tree, and included the story from the Return of Archwizards and War of the Spider Queen novels.
The web enhancement updated the monsters.
I recommend you start small, with a book like Silver Marches and Lords of Darkness for your villains, then later if you want to move to a bigger city City of Splendors: Waterdeep. After that Lost Empires of Faerun is full of adventure ideas or Champions of Valor if you want to give more Realms-flavored mechanical options to the pcs. |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 23:27:49
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Great advice! Thank you : )
I suppose I will pick up the FRCS and PGtF, silver marches and possibly the Waterdeep book and start from there. Knowing that the Players Guide lists the updates from the CS makes things easier.
Thanks! |
Edited by - Ozreth on 13 Oct 2010 23:29:45 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 23:52:36
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Gah, almost forgot: Portals (or Gates, if you prefer the older nomenclature).
I bring them up because no matter where you start in the Realms (or what level of play you start at), the pre-Spellplague Realms is riddled with still-functioning portals and gates that can send adventurers on a one-way trip to wherever you need them to be.
If you start play in Waterdeep, but want to move things to Silverymoon for the next phase of the adventure, theres no need to hand wave the journey between cities as uneventful or to wait several levels for the players to be strong enough to survive the journey; instead run them through a portal and off you go.
I *really* like portals (and was highly underwhelmed when WotC hosed them in the FRCG).
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 01:20:21
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Ooh Portals sound great, in which book can I get more info on these?
Also, I know I said I didn't want to run a any published stuff but I just looked through city of the spider queen at my local used book store and it looks pretty awesome. I may want to drop this in the middle somewhere. What do you guys think of it? |
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 13:28:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
Ooh Portals sound great, in which book can I get more info on these?
Also, I know I said I didn't want to run a any published stuff but I just looked through city of the spider queen at my local used book store and it looks pretty awesome. I may want to drop this in the middle somewhere. What do you guys think of it?
FRCS has the basic rules for using portals in the Realms. CotSQ is a good but very challenging adventure. But then any trip to the Underdark can be very challenging. Also CotSQ assumes you are using the Silence of Lloth progression of events. If you are not planning on upgrading Lloth's divine status, and killing off the rest of the Drow Pantheon, you will want to rethink the background events that lead up to this adventure. |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 14:03:31
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I've found that I use the Player's Guide to Faerun, Races of Faerun, and Champions of Valor for a lot of my Realms campaigns using 3.5E. CoV is really good for groups who are mostly good-aligned and they provide some great info for Knight Organizations and sub-class options. Plus, I really like the Triadic Knight prestige class!
As for adventures, you might want to start out small. Sons of Gruumsh isn't a bad adventure as is the Twilight Tomb, though the tomb takes place in the far East realm of Aglarond.
Also, if you want to buy the books, the 3-part adventure of Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land, and Anauroch: The Empire of Shade. Having played 2 out of 3 parts of this adventure, it's loads of fun and steeped in Forgotten Realms lore. |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 15:51:15
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In my opinion "Player's Guide to Faerun" is only worth it for the updated rules, which fit on one page, so most of the 3e realms stuff is perfectly usable.
I would also recommend "Faiths and Pantheons", I love all the lore on the different gods, but that might be my personal taste. Also "The Grand History of the Realms" is a great asset to put things in a chronological perspective. The data can also be found online (http://dnd.eizzn.com/) but the book has some great maps and extra lore sprinkled in between.
I would say that books like "Power of Faerūn" or "Dragons of Faerūn" are less essential. "Lost Empires of Faerūn" is a personal favourite, because of the focus on forgotten empires and a fair amount of lore regarding Impiltur.
Personally I would start small. I started my first campaign in Thesk, which is detailed in the "Unapproachable East" sourcebook (but not too much) and from there I started to branch out to different areas. My group is going to Damara soon, which is a fairly detailed environment, although all the lore there is mostly from 2e ("The Bloodstone Lands" by Salvatore). Beginning in Waterdeep would be great fun, but as a DM you'd have to incorporate a lot of detail. My advice in that case would be to use the lore which suits your narrative and ditch the bits that aren't necessary, but if players are familiar with what happened in Waterdeep it might be strange if you left out the fairly big conspiracy regarding the Knighs of the Shield, for example. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what Ive tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 16:14:04
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City of the Spider Queen....I love it, but would strongly recommend you not run it unless you're well versed in the rules of 3E. That module really brings the heat in terms of undead with major spellcasting ability, which is a lot for a DM to keep track of.
I agree with Diffan: Sons of Gruumsh is a great starter. |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 19:38:58
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| So much good advice here, thanks guys. Would you say that running a game In a published setting like the realms is easier than creating a homebrew campaign because all of the world is already laid out for you or harder because of the massive amount of info? And which do you find more rewarding? |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 20:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
So much good advice here, thanks guys. Would you say that running a game In a published setting like the realms is easier than creating a homebrew campaign because all of the world is already laid out for you or harder because of the massive amount of info? And which do you find more rewarding?
I feel that an established setting really makes it easer on the DM in terms of coming up with names for towns, bars/inns, NPCs and often those NPCs perosnal designes for the area. But DON'T feel like you HAVE to use this information verbatim. It can be change, and should be changed to your liking. Unless you want a campaign that adheres strictly to canon, use what you want and discard, manipulate, or incorporate the rest. I find that the information listed in established settings help get the creative juices flowing, but I often incorporate my own homebrew stuff into it as well. |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 09:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
So much good advice here, thanks guys. Would you say that running a game In a published setting like the realms is easier than creating a homebrew campaign because all of the world is already laid out for you or harder because of the massive amount of info? And which do you find more rewarding?
To me, using a published setting is more rewarding than a homebrew campaign. Especially in the case of the Forgotten Realms players might also be versed in some of the lore of the setting (by reading the realms novels), if you can make a connection with them by letting them play in key events in the Realms it'll be all the more rewarding for you as a DM.
The only downside of a published setting like the Forgotten Realms is the amount of lore which you can incorporate. I often find myself wanting to use a particular organisation and ending up with the knowledge that the organisation didn't exist at the time my players are running around in the realms. Sometimes I ditch the idea or ignore the established canon, basically what Diffan and others propose.
There are more "lore light" settings like Eberron, but the Realms are my favourite because of the sheer amount of detail. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what Ive tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
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Pazuzu
Seeker
Germany
61 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 10:33:19
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| I recently also started a new campaign and began with "The Sunless Citadel" which I put into Cormyr. Now the group is lead to Wheloon to do the three adventures. Works good for so far! |
May your dice obey your will. - Gary Gygax (*1938 - 2008) |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 11:05:25
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That's uncanny. For my first ever session as a DM I used "The Sunless Citadel" as well and used Cormyr as the FR backdrop...
After that first session I realised that I don't like to run published adventures. Writing my own adventures allows me to DM more easily and gives the freedom to improvise much more, because I know what's coming (I love a narrative with lots of foreshadowing). While running "The Sunless Citadel" I had to refer to the text far too often. Maybe I was underprepared, but it wasn't a great experience for me. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what Ive tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 16:26:10
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| I started with the Sunless Citadel too. :) |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 15 Oct 2010 16:26:29 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 18:00:22
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| Never heard of the Sunless Citadel, where can I get a copy? |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 18:02:28
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For Ed's fiction -- which will show you better than anything what the Realms is like, close up -- I'd start with the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy, his fictionalization of the early career of his longest-running PC group. Or his short story collection, or Spellfire, or the Elminster books (get a used Annotated Elminster or the upcoming Elminster Ascending omnibus) if they appeal.
1. For your style of using the rules, the differences between 3E and 3.5 are insignificant and can easily be smoothed over in the rare cases they crop up in play.
2. Unless you're an extremely good improviser, at least able to simulate all the closely packed factions of a big city, I'd start small, somewhere like Mistledale as written up in the 3E FRCS.
3. None of them are necessary. Magic of Faerūn, Lords of Darkness and Faiths and Pantheons are very useful overviews especially if you aren't using 2E sources, as are Power of Faerūn and Lost Empires. Other than going by the subject matter, the books by Ed and Eric are better Realmslore than others. The two Champions books are bitty rules-driven material. The so-called Players Guide is rules updates plus a few miscellaneous chapters.
4. Once you've got the smell of the Realms, like a dog, play up the multiple plot strands, let the players do what they want, don't be afraid to make stuff up, give characters Realms-appropriate names, and root events in the PCs' lives and friendships and alliances so they care about them.
Remember that everything published for the Realms is not the definite truth, but biased and partial reports that you can draw on for your campaign, but shouldn't determine it. |
Edited by - Faraer on 15 Oct 2010 18:04:38 |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 20:08:25
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I will definitely look into Annotated Elminster. Which was the actual first Elminster book if I want to take that route instead of getting the big book?
The more I think about this he more I realize that it may be best to go against my initial plan and run some published realms campaigns. I read really bad reviews on Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave and the two adventures that follow, but that was on enworld and rpg.net, what do you guys here think? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 04:29:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
I read really bad reviews on Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave and the two adventures that follow, but that was on enworld and rpg.net, what do you guys here think?
I read them, but haven't played or ran them. They didn't strike me as particularly bad... But what did really set off a lot of people was that Wizards published three hardcover (and thus pricier!) modules that dealt with stopping a big threat to Mystra... and then followed it up by taking her out in a totally off-stage maneuver. So anyone that did play thru it saved the world just in time to see it lost, and themselves powerless to do anything about it. |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:00:19
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Ah, I can see how that would be frustrating.
I flipped through it today and wasn't very inspired. Maybe because there was hardly any art in the thing? I dunno.
Anyways, I have picked up the FRCS, PGtF, and Races of Faerun, found them all for $15 a piece in mint condition at my local store. Also ordered annotated Elminster for 8 bucks on Amazon. I figure this will be a good start! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 15:16:49
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| I found the Cormyr adventure unremarkable and not very Faerūnian. I liked Shadowdale much more, but for Realms-newcomers it'd be like jumping into the fourth act of a play: for anything like its full effect it depends on the players already caring about Shadowdale, knowing about some of the historical characters and threads it wraps and follows up. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 16:07:14
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My problems with Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave were clearly mechanical in nature. They were quite a few errors with monsters, NPCs, and the like but the adventure part (ie. saving Cormyr, town of Wheloon, and Vast Swamp) were a lot of fun. You even delve into the Plane of Shadow.
Over at ENworld they have a conversion/errata thread that points out the errors and attempts to correct them, or at least show you what you can change yourself. I used that plus added some of my own homebrew rules and it turned out rather well.
There's a part where the PCs can become indoctrinated (by the false clerics of Mystra) and mine nearly were save the druid. Don't ask me why a druid would go through the process of learning about Mystra to begin with, but it's what the character wanted. When the PCs were affected by the Starry Gnosis, the druid reacted REALLY quickly, summoned some of nature's allies and went to town with the spell flame-sword. It was only with a quick saving throw by the Paladin of Mystra in the party that they were able to snap out of the domination and win the battle.
As for other's reviews, I can't say that I blame them because the adventure does look sorta bland and un-Realmsian but you never find out until you play through it.
Hope some of that helps your decisions.  |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 17:19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
I read really bad reviews on Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave and the two adventures that follow, but that was on enworld and rpg.net, what do you guys here think?
I read them, but haven't played or ran them. They didn't strike me as particularly bad... But what did really set off a lot of people was that Wizards published three hardcover (and thus pricier!) modules that dealt with stopping a big threat to Mystra... and then followed it up by taking her out in a totally off-stage maneuver. So anyone that did play thru it saved the world just in time to see it lost, and themselves powerless to do anything about it.
Not to mention that those very same books could've been modeled as Regional books instead of pointless adventure books. Everyone originally thought Cormyr was going to be a Cormyr regional book at first and Anauroch a 3E update to that region. But WotC disappointed the majority, once again.  |
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Which FR books can I use in my 3.5 game?
