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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 15:51:19
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Looks like the new D&D based CRPG is on the way (4e Realms).
http://kotaku.com/5619535/return-to-neverwinter-in-2011
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"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 16:08:43
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| I agree Ashe. I posted simply for information purposes. I have no intention of purchasing this, as I detest the 4e system, but there's plenty of people who might enjoy it. :) |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 18:00:44
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| I was actually looking forward for a 4e game, but this doesn't look very promising. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 19:01:50
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| First thing, this is an MMORPG so no thank you. Secondly, it is being made by Cryptic who specialize in making cookie cutter MMO's that are usually one big grindfest. This is so disappointing and I get the feeling that we may never see another NWN or BG ever again. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 19:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
[quote]Originally posted by Caolin
First thing, this is an MMORPG so no thank you. Secondly, it is being made by Cryptic who specialize in making cookie cutter MMO's that are usually one big grindfest. This is so disappointing and I get the feeling that we may never see another NWN or BG ever again.
Actually according to this interview it is not a MMO:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter/news.html?sid=6274162&mode=previews&tag=topslot;thumb;1
I guess the only thing I can compare it to is the new Transformers game which is an online co-op game. My wife also says it reminds her of Little Big Planet. I have no idea what she means. 
I don't know much about Cryptic, so I'm going to wait until some more information comes out before passing judgment.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 19:55:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
[quote]Originally posted by Caolin
First thing, this is an MMORPG so no thank you. Secondly, it is being made by Cryptic who specialize in making cookie cutter MMO's that are usually one big grindfest. This is so disappointing and I get the feeling that we may never see another NWN or BG ever again.
Actually according to this interview it is not a MMO:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter/news.html?sid=6274162&mode=previews&tag=topslot;thumb;1
I guess the only thing I can compare it to is the new Transformers game which is an online co-op game. My wife also says it reminds her of Little Big Planet. I have no idea what she means.
I don't know much about Cryptic, so I'm going to wait until some more information comes out before passing judgment.
Hmm, thanks for that link. The story I read only stated that it was an MMO.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/203897/neverwinter_nights_reborn_as_online_roleplaying_game.html?tk=hp_new
I'm now rethinking my stance. If it is indeed going to be a closer to NMW than WoW then I will be all for it. As long as I don't have to grind.....hate the grind. As for Cryptic, they aren't that bad, but their games all tend to be cookie cutter. |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:18:20
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Hm... so even though they say it is not classical MMO, it does not appear to have single player neither... That makes it very unlikely for me to purchase it. 
Also: can't they put games in other parts of the realms? I know it is a brand and brand = better sales, but still...  |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:25:10
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
Hm... so even though they say it is not classical MMO, it does not appear to have single player neither... That makes it very unlikely for me to purchase it.
Also: can't they put games in other parts of the realms? I know it is a brand and brand = better sales, but still...
From what I saw, it seems that there will be quests or adventures that you have to do. You can do them alone or with a group of other players. They said that playing solo will be harder so...who knows. I just hope they do put room in for solo play. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:54:44
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| Maybe it's like Guild Wars in that you can game with others and pick up a party in town yet when you leave town (or in the case of Neverwinter, a district) your on your own or the game isn't influenced by outside parties. Could be awesome if it's run like Guild Wars |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 21:18:31
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| Ultimately, the game is being designed primarily as an online multiplayer game. As such, it caters to that audience, not those with a preference for single-player (such as myself). At the very least, it is being presented as such. While it means I will not be purchasing such a game, I appreciate the developers straight-forward announcement that it is MP-focused. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 23:27:35
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I look forward to checking this out. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 01:14:54
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I have no interest in an MMO, but this sounds like it will be different so I will keep an eye on what develops. From the interview, if looks like we will either see the fall of Neverwinter or at least hear the how/why in Salvatore's upcoming books.
Did anyone else notice a tidbit about it being released along side a tabletop board game? I don't recall one mentioned for 4th quarter next year, only Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, and the mass battle one for next year. I wonder if they are simply meaning the Neverwinter Campaign Guide? |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 04:07:33
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| So that's why they are bringing out a Neverwinter Campaign Guide. Thought as much. Oh and look, 5 classes in 4th Edition rules, woo. This looks thrilling! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 04:18:49
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| What a startling coincidence. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 04:48:55
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I can understand the fact that they're only allowing 5 base classes. You have to realize that each class has probably over 40 or 50 powers (4 to 6 powers a level and with 30 levels...) to create plus different paragon paths and epic destinies for all 5 classes. That's a lot of info in a game like this. Plus, it makes room for additional support when they come out with 4 new classes (or however many...) for the sequal or update or whatever. My guess is that it's the Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and possibly the Swordmage since it's been out for as long as the PHB and is a Forgotten Realms-based class. If so, that would be awesome.
I'm really stoked about this game and sorta hope it's released on multipul consols as well as PC. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 05:07:22
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| boycotting it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 06:09:51
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There is no way this game makes a dent in the WoW fanbase, Diablo fanbase, Star Craft fanbase, Guild Wars fanbase, Elder Scrolls fanbase, Dragon Age fanbase, Mass Effect fanbase, LOTR fanbase, Final Fantasy fanbase, Infinity Engine game fanbase, Fallout fanbase, and of course, those who play NWN1, NWN2, and the plethora of quality expansions and fan-made adventures of those two games. Perhaps they're aiming at the Runescape fanbase.
Unless of course the game initially comes out w/a $20.00 price tag, of which some parent of a gamer who lives in a rich neighborhood may buy it for their kid, thinkin that it may be a better compliment to that of NWN1 or NWN2.
Move along. Nothing to see here except a watered down version of WoW via the 4e rules. Not even the great writing of RA Salvatore is gonna stop this ship from sinking. Expect sales akin to that of FR: Demon Stone and Temple of Elemental Evil. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 07:28:56
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
boycotting it
You do that. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
728 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 14:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
boycotting it
You do that.
I do plan on it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 14:49:11
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So wait, I didn't know that because I play one specific game that I can't branch out to others. I play Mass Effect, Diablo, NWN 1&2, and WoW and I think this game might do quite well. Yea, it utilized 4E mechanics but so f*ing what? It's been many people's opinion that 4E is like WoW anyways so I guess this will really test that theory huh?
Until I see game-testing footage or gain a better understanding of what the style is going to be like I'm going to try to have an open mind and be excited that we're finally seeing another FR game. |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 15:26:01
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I believe this is a so called "co-operative multiplayer" game, right? I absolutely hate the trend of launching RPGs as MMOs. Most of them fail miserably in the marketplace or boil down to endless XP grinds. I don't want to spend a day collecting some type wood in order to create my first wooden armour, I want to be the hero of the game!
Although the new Neverwinter Nights RPG doesn't seem to be a full blown MMORPG like World of Warcraft or Guild Wars is, I don't like the multiplayer and "no singleplayer" aspect. A shame really.
As for the fact that it's 4e, I can live with that as long as it's a computer game. I don't particularly hate the mechanics of 4e, although I prefer 3.5, but the new lore is going to be a problem.
But it seems it's going to be a MMOG, so won't be picking this one up. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 24 Aug 2010 15:26:18 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 16:18:42
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So after reading this:
quote:
Jack Emmert
...if only because it presupposes an organization along traditional MMORPG lines (that is, a large persistent zone with many instances connected to it). This is a co-op RPG, so comparing it to other RPGs such as the original Neverwinter Nights or Oblivion would be more appropriate. Some locations are public; some are just for teammates. But it isn't quite the setup of a big zone with side instances.
and this:
quote:
Jack Emmert
The biggest part of Neverwinter is really our approach to development. It's not a standard, hundreds-of-hours-grinding MMORPG. Mind you, we've done those in the past. This represents a huge departure from our previous efforts; we're focusing a lot on the quality of each thing we do. We've got constant playtests as well as outside, independent mock reviews. We know that Atari gave us a terrific intellectual property, and we want to do it justice.
I'm even more stoked because I'm hoping that it plays like Diablo on-line. It's not an MMO since you can play the game in solo mode (something Jack stated in the interview) but also something that is like Co-Op play. And I'm sure there are things like open areas where people can gather, meet, and start up parties to venture into the city.
And, I found out the it's the Ranger as the 5th class. Shame. but the Ranger is probably the best "striker" in 4E so I'm not suprised. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 17:48:04
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I'm surprised no one mentioned the fact that they refer to the world as Faerun instead of Toril. I sent them a message via Twitter but who knows. It's an inauspicious start but I think it will be a fun game and I plan to mess around with it a bit.
Edit for link -> http://www.playneverwinter.com/about |
Edited by - Matt James on 24 Aug 2010 17:50:36 |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 18:44:19
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I get the impression some folks aren't reading the articles.
Also, no interest or speculation on the bit about a tabletop board game?
If nothing else, I guess this shows that either Hasbro and Atari have settled their differences or have at least agreed to continue working together while they are busy with the lawsuit. Even if this particular game isn't what everyone wants, there is at least hope for more games where a month ago there was no hope until the lawsuit was settled. I would kind of like a new Dark Alliance game on the consoles and a new NWN-esque game (if this one doesn't quite pan out). |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 19:39:18
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I'm interested in learning a little bit more about the 4th ed game mechanics, without spending for the books or changing my campaign. I loved the 2 first games, so I'm definitely going to give it a try.
5 classes does seem very low, but as I understand it, classes are much more customizable (having to choose your powers, kinda like Diablo 2) than in 3.X, in which it is only the feats that distinguish a wizard from another (at least in the computer game).
As for the story, 4th edition novels did a good job so far, so no reason to think that the computer games won't do the same. To the fact that they are using Drizzt's novel to sell their product to non-D&D gamer, I say: ABOUT TIME! C'mon, I want the realms to be financially successful, and they haven't used Drizzt nearly enough in their CPU game business. What if the Realms were actually the next big thing in the gaming industry? An RTS (ala starcraft), an FPS (ala Dark Messiah), more action games (ala Baldur's Gate for consoles) or more and more RPGs... It would be great!
In the end, the fact that I don't acknowledge the 4th edition realms in my gaming table doesn't mean I will boycott all their products (which WAS my first reaction after I heard about the spellplague). It's still the realms, with plenty of good stories to be told. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 24 Aug 2010 19:39:38 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 21:25:13
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Hmmm.. from what I have read I cannot see anything that indicates that one can play the whole game in single player mod. They talk about parts that you can play alone, but that's only parts...
I have no problem with CRPGs using 4e, the new realms, only 5 classes etc... Really, anything on the PC platform in the realms is almost a must buy for me, I am less strict with computer games than with P&P. But without a single player mode: no way! |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 06:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
So wait, I didn't know that because I play one specific game that I can't branch out to others. I play Mass Effect, Diablo, NWN 1&2, and WoW and I think this game might do quite well. Yea, it utilized 4E mechanics but so f*ing what? It's been many people's opinion that 4E is like WoW anyways so I guess this will really test that theory huh?
Until I see game-testing footage or gain a better understanding of what the style is going to be like I'm going to try to have an open mind and be excited that we're finally seeing another FR game.
I didn't mean that if you play one game that you can't branch out. What I meant is that its highly doubtful this new Neverwinter game will have the staying power that the elite games today have now enjoyed for years. Given the way the market for PC games are, how Blizzard and other great companies have built and continue to build their brands, and contrast that w/how WotC has, for all intents and purposes, destroyed thier own via 4e Realms timejump and 4e rules (which are decent when you look at them of itself, but when you look at the entire picture, its a watered down variation of the WoW game mechanics; akin to a clone, a wannabe WoW--they didn't even mask thier intent by goin after Guild Wars game mechanics!), I don't believe at all that they have what it takes to make the established PC game companies do more than chuckle. Ditto the hardcore fanbases thereof, at the prospect of playing a WoW wannabe instead of the real thing.
The elements that make a successful C-RPG or MMO are gameplay, graphics, compelling storyline, and genuine marketing (y'know, the direct opposite of the 4e marketing campaign that told us that "the game remains the same!"), as people who play C-RPG's tend to be less into fluff, garbage, and accepting misdirection than common folk (and that's being honest - it can hit you like an epiphany!), and thus won't take kindly to being mislead by marketing into having wasted money on 'this' video game when they could've bought 'that' video game.
W/all this in mind, what makes you think that this new Neverwinter game 'might do quite well,' Diffan? I'll give you my take on the situation.
In terms of gameplay, I'm not the only one who feels that 4e is a watered-down copy of WoW. So why play this 4e Neverwinter game when you can play the real thing? Or if sick of WoW, why not go w/the tried and true games such as Guild Wars, etc? Even more, do any of you have cordial discussions w/the people who own your local gaming store(s)? This wherein you can trust them to give you honest answers if you dare ask if 2yrs after it originally came out, if 4e is doin as well as the 2yrs after 3e came out? Or more recently, if they do better business in 4e or Pathfinder? I'll tell you right now, its not just the consensus here on CK that Pathfinder is a better game than 4e.
I wrote all that to illustrate my point that the 4e gameplay, of itself, doesn't at all stand out against the competition.
In terms of graphics, all fantasy games have good graphics nowadays. This new Neverwinter game isn't gonna outshine WoW's technicolor, Guild War's sexiness, NWN1 & NWN2's outright awsomeness, Infinity Engine games' intensity to compliment their storylines, and Elder Scrolls vastness. I write this to illustrate my point that there's nothing significantly new that this game can offer graphicwise.
In terms of compelling storyline, c'mon man. This is a 4e Forgotten Realms game. The strength of FR C-RPG's have always been their rich depth, a world within a world. W/the timejump alone, most of that is all gone, as most of our favourite human Realms characters are dead. And it'd be absolutely bogus if they used this game to lift this and that NDA to say so and so is still alive in 1479 DR by way of magic, seeing the Spellplague ruined magic to such degrees. It'd end up being a game that made no sense at all if they went in this direction. And 'no sense' goes against the feel of the Realms, which Ed and his friends worked so hard to perfect.
I write all this to illustrate my point that the 4e Realms are just the Realms in name only. It's not an awe inspiring world that set everyone afire in the BG series and 1st two NWN games and expansion packs thereof. It's Dark Sun under the FR banner, and that means its all broody, dark, and lackluster, and thus nothing that the competition brought about by the established fantasy C-RPG makers can't easily overcome.
I should also add to the points I juss made that in the time that FR was the dominant table-top campaign setting (1992-2007) and co-dominant fantasy C-RPG setting (1998-2007, sharing dominance w/Blizzard's Warcraft world and NCsoft's Guild Wars' world; these latter two are obviously still dominant, still making kickass content for their patrons), that the main people building the FR brand (EGreenwood, ECunningham, SSchend, etc) were NOT fulltime employees, despite them along w/RA Salvatore being the heart and soul of FR's ascension to roleplaying dominance. This of TSR and WotC's own volition, as said on this very website by one of the authors who frequent here. Keep in mind that these people MADE the FR brand. Now compare that w/how well Blizzard's game designers and storywriters are compensated, and w/that, keep in mind that despite all of Ed's work, the dude can barely afford freakin high-speed internet.
Given the lack of compensation to those who built the FR brand (w/o whom they wouldn't have sold all those 2e & 3e FR sourcebooks and novels), how easily their work was disposed of in the 4e Realms, do you really think such people can come up w/compelling storylines? Really, I think the only way this new Neverwinter game competes w/the elite video game companies of today, is if WotC and the others responsible for this new game successfully steal someone's intellectual property (which if they steal from the wrong person w/solid financial resources, they'd be hit w/a major lawsuit from people who won't back down). How are people who destroyed their own brand under their care supposed to have the wisdom to create good storylines to compete vs. the elite in the market? Yes, RA Salvatore is a great novel writer, but if the (lack of) success of FR-Demon Stone is any indication, he shouldn't be given the role of lead writer of a C-RPG (and I don't like saying that b/c I love his other work, and anything w/Patrick Steward n Micheal Clarke Duncan usually does a good job of taking my attention). You might see it, and we can debate all day and night about the prognosis, but common sense states to not bet the farm on them doing anything significant b/c of their resume, especially w/how competitive the market is for elite C-RPG's. Let's not forget that in the 2yrs of 4e FR, people are still complaining about everything 4e lacks in comparison w/the lore that was done away with from the previous editions. Compare this w/how the 2e and 3e books enhanced the BG series when it came out, and the NWN series when it came out.
Now in terms of genuine marketing, 4e didn't live up to the hype. Not in game mechanics, and certainly not w/the Realms. Compare this w/the passion people had when 3e came out. What's more, let's look at some history.
-The 1st Baldur's Gate game came from little known Bioware (at the time; they're now the premier C-RPG maker of the decade and show no signs of slowing down), and from 1998 to 2004, the game enjoyed its time on the main shelf of stores that sold PC games. This in the midst of people buying Diablo (1996 till NOW and its still selling on main shelves everywhere!) and Starcraft (1998 till NOW, to the point that Blizzard could dilly dally for 12 freakin yrs b4 the sequel came out! Incredible!). Needless to say that this game's storyline stood out for itself unto competing w/Blizzard's moneymakers, but it also had the asset of having a non-divided FR fanbase standing behind it.
-The 2nd BG game came out in 2000, and by all accounts, it outsold its predecessor. This is huge, given that most sequels don't do the predecessor justice. This game had its run on the main shelf of stores from 2000 to 2006. Again, that's quite excellent, given the competition from those 2 Blizzard games and then WoW! And then all the other great games that came out in that 6yr timespan. Again benefiting from a non-divided FR fanbase, so new fans drawn in to FR from this series (such as myself) could go on FR website forums, and get to know the Realms thereof from other fans, w/o hearing about the (rightful) bitterness that the 4e Realms have caused among us. Think about this from a money management PoV.
-The 1st NWN game came out in 2002, made from the same company that made the BG series, and about 2yrs after 3e came out. This awsome game (which I'm playing right now since December; am in Chapter 3 right now) blew everyone's mind, and was on the main shelf of stores from 2002 till 2009. It's now available on gametap.com, and is still on the 1st page of thier RPG section. The success of this game and tools thereof have made it FR's flagship game.
-The 2nd NWN game came out in 2006, made by Obsidian (from Fallout and SW:KotorII fame), and is known as a 'good' game, but by most people's accounts, isn't as good as the 1st NWN game for one reason or another. It's been 4yrs, and I still see this game on the main shelf of stores that sell PC games, but not as often as I did earlier this year, and certainly not as much as I did in '08 and '09. So in all fairness, let's say it had its time on the main shelf for 3.5yrs, competing w/so many other great games, including not living up to its precedessor, NWN1.
Now WotC is using the Neverwinter name to push their 4e video game effort, even though they've destroyed so much of the canon that made the 1st two Neverwinter games something to drawn in new fans and satisfy the established FR fanbase that plays PC games. As far as I'm concerned, they're using FR's flagship game to push thier 4e Realms, whose ass is being kicked by Paizo in the tabletop market, and I believe this'll even bite them harder in the PC game market, as the general consensus is that NWN1 > NWN2, 1e + 2e + 3e FR canon (all easily compatible w/eachother) > 4e FR canon, 3.5e AD&D > 4e AD&D, and WoW = pwns YOU!!!!1111oness11111s biteitones11111szzorzzz all and 4e is watered down WoW.
The way I see it, they're using the flagship game to market their 4e game, not understanding NWN community's dynamics (or perhaps they do, and are left w/nothing but this attempt they've presented right here, due to thier own self-inflicted wounds and Paizo being the upstart competitor), not understanding the stiff competition they're up against in the C-RPG market, and not acknowledging that they've pushed much of their core fanbase away, are behind the  , and that those who wanna play WoW-light have the option to play the real WoW, or the legendary NWN games, or a host of healthy alternatives.
Listen, I don't know anyone who loves the BG series and NWN series more than I do. I'm having a blast playing the NWN1-OC right now, and am gonna either fire up SoU or NWN2 when I'm done it. But this 4e Neverwinter game hasn't sparked my interest at all. I didn't even bother clicking the links in this thread. I juss read the news on gamebanshee to start my day y't'day, and clicked this thread b/c I like reading ppl's opinions here.
But all signs point towards this new game not being a successful venture. This from my PoV as a Realms fan, fantasy C-RPG fan (been playing these type of games since b4 I hit puberty, and haven't at all lost my love for it), and in my own studying of the market, which I feel I understand very well due to being a player, and someone who understands money management principles in terms of accounting and marketing. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 13:42:16
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I disagree with a few of your points bladeinAmn (and I'm actually going to defend the 4th ed, never thought that'd happen)
First, I do not think 4th ed mechanics are like WoW that much. They DO have a certain feel to it, with cooldowns to certain abilities (power per-encounter, per-day), but that's about it. The way I see it, any other element could be linked to any RPG, and if you dig deep enough to the RPG evolution what do you get? D&D. So yeah, nobody can accuse D&D of copying element from other games, since pretty much everyone else did that first to them. And for the record, even if they did borrow WoW elements to their new edition, they would have been stupid not too. You want your stuff to sell, so you've got to follow the flow of what people like, simple marketing.
Second, you hate the spellplague and the time jump, I get that (of course), but your point that the storyline cannot be interesting BECAUSE it is set in 1479, well it is close-minded. Give it a chance, like I said above, it's still the Realms, at least in the novels.
I also do not think that the general consensus is that NVN1>NVN2 (maybe the general opinion, but certainly not a consensus). After playing NVN2, I realised that the first one lacked in character depth (for the NPCs, since the main character had none at all). Voice acting, a full party, better graphics (while not that important, its a nice change) and interesting NPCs all made NVN2 better for me, and I'm certainly not the only one.
Alot of people have been mad at WotC ever since 4th ed came out, and are flaming everytime news come out of their new realms products. I do not think all this negativity is helping our cause at all. You want more Realms, you want product pre-spellplague? Guess what, they'll need to think the Realms have money to be made, or they'll toss them in a corner (we don't want that, no?).
So while I understand the skepticism concerning this new game, I'll repeat myself: Give it a chance! It's in our best interest as Realms fans.
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Neverwinter CRPG - 2011
