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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2010 :  14:43:39  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Dear Scribes can any one enlighten me by revealing the approximate location of the city of Tel Verinal I know its deep beneath the Moonsea some where......???



Hmmmm sounds of chirping crickets........chrrrrrrrppppppchrrrrpppppppp

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/

Edited by - Snowblood on 21 Aug 2010 12:48:09

Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2010 :  17:44:28  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where is it mentioned? It's the first time I hear of it ...

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2010 :  18:12:05  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FRS3 The Moonsea

"Szaravel V'Zyrin (born in Tel Verinal, drow city below the Moonsea –e(drow)f T2) "

Search engines at times can be a friend, on the other hand one can only find what has been sent to the net (or even written).

There might be more out there, however all I find is a female Drow used to live in Tel Verinal.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2010 :  21:11:43  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Methinks I have read most that there is out there on the FR drow and their homes and did not come accross that place before. So I would assume that bar that entry, there is no info on the Tel Verinal anywhere else, at least not in the main sourcebooks or in any great detail. So it is most likely just one of these 40odd drow cities of the Realms, apparently a minor one.

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  01:25:19  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed, I concur with Zanan. I performed a quick PDF scan of my FR books, and found that the only source to contain a reference to this location, was the one you've already mentioned.

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Edited by - The Sage on 22 Aug 2010 01:26:42
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  02:21:11  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thats the one I have too...I just thought that maybe I'd missed something...thanks Scribes....carte blanche for me then......maybe upon the shores of Moondeep Sea I think...mmm yeessss.. muhahahaha.....evil sneery smile......

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  02:43:04  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I look forward to seeing what you come up with Snowblood.

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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  02:58:49  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Snowblood you might consider a city of Vhaeraun as dominate faith as all we could find was a thief. You also however could and likely should ask ED as he has much material that TSR, nor WotC has released, and not all is NDA.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  09:08:00  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or ... for a change, stuff all the religious babble and make it just a stronghold of merchant clans who import gems, slaves, surface spices and poisons to the Underdark with high profits. No need to nail the religious flag on each place's mast.

(BTW, I very much like the "witches" of Pathfinder, who can cast these healing spells et al and take over that role in a renegade settlement ...)

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.

Edited by - Zanan on 22 Aug 2010 09:12:31
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  09:29:35  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

Snowblood you might consider a city of Vhaeraun as dominate faith as all we could find was a thief. You also however could and likely should ask ED as he has much material that TSR, nor WotC has released, and not all is NDA.



Not a bad idea. I loove undiscovered drow cities...
@ above: And does it really clash with the idea of a city of Vhaeraun-worshippers? They ought to be lying low (don't want a religious crusade, do you?) so they could masquerade as merchant clans.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  20:07:12  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

Snowblood you might consider a city of Vhaeraun as dominate faith as all we could find was a thief. You also however could and likely should ask ED as he has much material that TSR, nor WotC has released, and not all is NDA.



Not a bad idea. I loove undiscovered drow cities...
@ above: And does it really clash with the idea of a city of Vhaeraun-worshippers? They ought to be lying low (don't want a religious crusade, do you?) so they could masquerade as merchant clans.



I can't stand all this "must-be-religiously determined city" - stuff. If a merchant family gives lip service to Vhaeraun, so be it. If two or three clans do it, fine. There's no need to make it a "Vhaeraunian city" though, whether it thrives off merchants or not. There are tons of merchants in Lolthite (or semi-monotheistic) cities, no problem at all. It would be far more interesting to see them working "together" and solely competing (if need be) on a power level basis, not a religious one.

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4684 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  21:06:34  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan

I can't stand all this "must-be-religiously determined city" - stuff. If a merchant family gives lip service to Vhaeraun, so be it. If two or three clans do it, fine. There's no need to make it a "Vhaeraunian city" though, whether it thrives off merchants or not. There are tons of merchants in Lolthite (or semi-monotheistic) cities, no problem at all. It would be far more interesting to see them working "together" and solely competing (if need be) on a power level basis, not a religious one.



First I did not say must.

Oh the city certainly could have no Clerics or Priests, however the odds of that are low (Clerics are a Core Class). If a city has Clerics of the Drow faith odds are very good one religion would be dominate, considering how well they get along.

It could be a city of mages, however even they have some Clerics.

Religion is part of the Realms.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3750 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2010 :  22:59:39  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's a thought (take it for what it is): If it is indeed on the Moondeep Sea, why not make it more of a merchant-based or perhaps even a maritime pirate culture? That opens up lots of new ideas....

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  09:00:08  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Here's a thought (take it for what it is): If it is indeed on the Moondeep Sea, why not make it more of a merchant-based or perhaps even a maritime pirate culture? That opens up lots of new ideas....



Yay, drow pirates!

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  09:48:44  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Zanan

I can't stand all this "must-be-religiously determined city" - stuff. If a merchant family gives lip service to Vhaeraun, so be it. If two or three clans do it, fine. There's no need to make it a "Vhaeraunian city" though, whether it thrives off merchants or not. There are tons of merchants in Lolthite (or semi-monotheistic) cities, no problem at all. It would be far more interesting to see them working "together" and solely competing (if need be) on a power level basis, not a religious one.



First I did not say must.

Oh the city certainly could have no Clerics or Priests, however the odds of that are low (Clerics are a Core Class). If a city has Clerics of the Drow faith odds are very good one religion would be dominate, considering how well they get along.

It could be a city of mages, however even they have some Clerics.

Religion is part of the Realms.


All fine and well. My point is that when people think of a drow city, they instantly ask what religion dominates it. When there is no real need to have a dominant religion at all. Sure there can be clerics, but it could well be that the clans/houses as such rule the city and since both LOlth and Vhaeraun share the trickery domain, they simply compete on that level, but not religious murder or stand-offs.

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.

Edited by - Zanan on 23 Aug 2010 09:51:32
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  09:52:01  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm goin with the pirate idea....keep going I like it.........

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  10:23:49  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought the Realms was over detailed.

Guess I was wrong.
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  12:22:12  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

I thought the Realms was over detailed.

Guess I was wrong.


There is never enough detail ... and those who don't like details can just ignore what has been written easily enough.

BTW, we know of about 40 drow cities within (AD&D & 3RE) Realmspace and only about a handful have seen some more detailed info being published. And guess what, 4E declared Menzo as the nigh one-and-only place and did away with the rest (bar some spots of darkness here and there) - not least the newly created half dozen beneath Thay. Ach well ...

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  14:25:55  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's called being ironic.

I was sarcastically disproving the notion that the Realms was/is over developed...
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3750 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  19:03:51  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Snowblood: If you like, I can PM you some ideas I have used. There are all sorts of fun ways to intoduce players to them- and lets face it- the only thing scarier than normal drow is a bunch of drow gone pirate!! (Gets even more fun when you realize that it sort of relegates the females to a secondary role by default. Piracy is primarily a male pursuit due to the rigors of ship-life. And let's be honest: how many drow females would lower themselves to that kind of smelly, arduous work?)

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2010 :  23:30:31  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is THO's reply from the Ed Scroll.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Snowblood, Ed tells us this:

Tel Verinal is a small "waymoot" drow trading city deep beneath the eastern end of the Moonsea. Through a network of caverns rising up into the mountains east of the Moonsea, it trades with surface traders (notably ogres, hobgoblins, and bugbears, plus a few renegade independent humans of swift wits and ruthless ways), and has in the past successfully fought off several attacks from mind flayers and thaalud, driving both out of its vicinity.
Like most trading cities, Tel Verinal is dominated by no religion, and attracts the outcasts and oppressed/former slaves from other drow communities, making the bulk of its populace fierce opponents of drow (or other) clergy who desire to give orders to others in the name of any faith. Nor is Tel Verinal dominated by warring families or clans, or split down gender lines or even racial lines (drow holding themselves superior to other races). Rather, it is a rather lawless place of rough justice and wary tolerance [[think the Star Wars cantina]] ruled lightly by a Morym, or mayor (an elder drow of patience and tolerance), on behalf of all of the major cavern-owners.
The Morym keeps the peace by means of several hired mages (some human, some not) who ride driders whom they befriend and work with closely; they wield wands (notably some that can cause brief, small-area-effect blade barriers) that make them formidable in battle, and some of their driders command small packs of obedient spiders (deathjump and blade spiders).
The current Morym is an aging, feeble female drow with a prodigious memory for faces, names, and events, who can "read" folk almost unerringly, and anticipate what they'll try to do. She often deploys her "Morymdar" (the aforementioned police forces) before trouble erupts, so they're ready and waiting for what's about to unfold. Verinden (= inhabitants of Tel Verinal) both respect and fear her, as a result. So petty crime is frequent in and near the city, lone idiots can expect to be ambushed if they venture into the wrong place at the wrong time, and brawls erupt in taverns . . . but in general, life proceeds fairly peacefully. This is a place for trading, not righting wrongs or avenging slights.
Those activities often take place in the passages rising up into the mountains beside the Moonsea, or even on the surface itself.

So saith Ed, creator of the Moonsea, the Realms, blade spiders, and so on.
love,
THO

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  00:01:35  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds similar to Vaerndoun, beneath Torsh, or Mantol Derith on the shore of the Darklake.

The Drow pirates thing sounds cool - give them a Skullport-like portal though, so they can easily move ships from the Underseas to the Moonsea. It might also be fun to tie them to the 'Sea Drow' (Marels).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  05:21:07  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok if we're going for a subteranean maratime theme...what types of water craft would drow pirates use....who would they prey upon down below and would they only operate at night or in winter if they venture to the surface???? Any ideas scribes????

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  06:44:05  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Going from memory, I seem to recall Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark suggesting that drow and other races beneath the surface often make use of "small" boats -- which have either been taken from the surface [seemingly likely, given what Ed said above about Tel Verinal being an Underdark city that trades with the surface], or built deep in their own realms. There's also some indication that residents of the Underdark [though not specifically referenced as drow] construct boats from giant mushrooms. Magical aspects, such as folding boats, are also a possibility, I suppose

And since there's little actual "wind" beneath the surface, I'd imagine that the prevalence of surface-styled sailing craft would be severely reduced, with most Underdark vessels being categorised as either "rowed" [by demi-human or slave power] or "towed" [by marine/aquatic creatures indigenous to the Underdark] types.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 24 Aug 2010 06:45:40
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  09:54:44  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Sounds similar to Vaerndoun, beneath Torsh, or Mantol Derith on the shore of the Darklake.

The Drow pirates thing sounds cool - give them a Skullport-like portal though, so they can easily move ships from the Underseas to the Moonsea. It might also be fun to tie them to the 'Sea Drow' (Marels).



Sea Drow? What? They exist? More detail, pleaase...

@ Sage - the duergar boats on the Dark Lake described in WotSQ were rowed. I guess the drow would have some unfortunate bugbears or ogres chained to the oars...

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  10:10:19  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@ Zireael -- the marel were referenced in the 2e The Moonsea source.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Edited by - The Sage on 24 Aug 2010 10:11:30
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Jorkens
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Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  10:57:42  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And the term refers more to an evil breed of Sea Elves more than a variation of drow if I remember correctly.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  16:29:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right, Marels are evil Sea Elves, and are mistakenly called 'Sea Drow'. They are also given 3e stats in MoM in The Bell in the Depths section.

When I was working on the Elven netbook (Elves of Faerūn) project, I was considering making them a group of albino Drow, or at least hinting they were. Since albino drow do exist (and were 'the norm' in Ed's Realms), I didn't think this was too far of a stretch.

Think about it - if a group of Ilythiir became Sea elves (as ALL Elves can), then they would have later been affected by the curse as well. They may have been a group trying to avoid the Crown Wars, as so many others had, and are now VERY bitter about being punished regardless.

The fact that they worship Umberlee shows that they have a certain disdain for both branches of the Seldarin Pantheon. I had also theorized (with Lord karsus) that perhaps Umberlee was one of the Yuir Totems (some stuff about an ancient evil Sea god being imprisoned off the coast of Aglarond had me going this route), and if the Yuir Totems were archfey as some (including at least one designer) have surmised, then that bit would fit right in with a group of Umberlee-worshiping Elves (the first arrivals on Toril revered 'Fey deities', NOT the Seldarine).

Nothing canon - just some fun stuff to think about.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Aug 2010 16:38:53
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  17:56:46  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What's MoM?

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  18:30:05  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

What's MoM?


I am going to assume Mysteries of the Moonsea.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2449 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2010 :  20:31:03  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep. Mysteries of the Moonsea. A rather useless book, but there you go.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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