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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 11:10:34
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Well I guess the Spellplague just wasn't enough.
Now Wizards will have the Abyssalplague for ALL of the D&D Worlds.
I guess it will be a D&DSE.
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Edited by - Brimstone on 05 Jul 2010 11:31:16
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 11:13:56
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quote:
Dungeons & Dragons Novels
We're getting ready to debut a new line of Dungeons & Dragons novels set in the world of the Nentir Vale and other locations detailed in the Dungeon Master's Guide, the Essentials products, and our adventures. It starts with Part One of James Wyatt's prelude novella, The Gates of Madness. You can find the first part of the novella in the mass market edition of R.A. Salvatore's The Ghost King, on sale this month. The novella leads up to next year's worlds-spanning event, The Abyssal Plague. You'll see signs of the Abyssal Plague in Dungeons & Dragons, Forgotten Realms, and Dark Sun novels, game products, and even in the Dungeons & Dragons Encounters program, starting this fall and throughout 2011.
In the meantime, the Dungeons & Dragons novels kick off with The Mark of Nerath, written by yours truly, that introduces many of the characters that will play a part in the unfolding tale of the Abyssal Plague. Check out this link for more about the novels and this crucial Dungeons & Dragons event.
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Edited by - Brimstone on 05 Jul 2010 11:14:32 |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 11:27:47
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So, it seems they're gearing up towards a transition to 5th edition D&D... 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
729 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 15:30:20
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Dark Sun was always inaccessible from any other world, in 2E... I think the Mists could reach into there, but so far as I know, Dark Sun was otherwise completely inaccessible from any other setting. Which means this is one hell of an event (pun not intended), unless of course prior lore is being ignored.
And yeah, something like this does seem like the lead-up to 5E -- though I think Wizards would be really foolish to unleash another edition so quickly. Admittedly, they've made many business decisions I find questionable, but still... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 15:30:24
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| But it confirms that the product picture on Amazon discussed in another scroll is correct ... |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 05 Jul 2010 17:18:51 |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 15:48:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[And yeah, something like this does seem like the lead-up to 5E -- though I think Wizards would be really foolish to unleash another edition so quickly. Admittedly, they've made many business decisions I find questionable, but still...
I don't believe these are the beginnings of 5e D&D. As you say, it wouldn't make business sense to do so.
To date, WotC has released only one sourcebook for the Forgotten Realms, while slowly introducing other campaign settings - like the recent reincarnation of Dark Sun. Or is the lack of new FR lore deliberate and are they focussing on the core D&D (and Eberron) stuff?
I'm curious to hear what this Abyssal Plague is going to be. It could be a plague from the Abyss spreading to the different worlds, or a thorough cleansing of the wonderful Nine Hells system (like the reset that was the Spellplague and the recent cleansing/retconning of the Faerûnian pantheon). |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 05 Jul 2010 15:49:30 |
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ggroy
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 15:50:57
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One could look at precedents from the past.
The FR "Time of Troubles" and the Spellplague, came with a change in editions and rules.
The "Greyhawk Wars" was somewhat different. Allegedly it was done to reinvigorate the moribund Greyhawk product line around the turn of 1990.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_Wars
Which case will the "Abyssal Plague" be this time around?
If there's a 5E D&D in the offering in the near future, will it be a cleaned up version of of the 4E rules? (ie. Similar to 1E -> 2E).
Or will 5E be a drastic change from all previous editions of D&D/AD&D?
Looking at the historical development timeline of 4E, the design and development work lasted from approximately June 2005 to June 2007 (when the full-on playtesting was done). This was outlined in the book "Wizards Presents: Races and Classes" on pages 8 and 9.
http://www.amazon.com/Wizards-Presents-Classes-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786948019
From the start of design work to the release of the 4E PHB, it is a 3 year span. So if a drastically different 5E has been in development since 4E appeared (2008), a first possible viable appearance of such a 5E D&D could be in 2011.
If 5E ends up being a cleaned up version of 4E, most likely it will not take three years. Though one may suspect the 4E Essentials product line may very well be a "cleaned up" version of 4E.
If the "Abyssal Plague" is more along the lines of the "Greyhawk Wars", then what is the exact reason for doing it in the first place? Are they suggesting 4E D&D has not been selling very good recently? Do they need such a RSE to re-invigorate sales? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 16:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Dark Sun was always inaccessible from any other world, in 2E... I think the Mists could reach into there, but so far as I know, Dark Sun was otherwise completely inaccessible from any other setting. Which means this is one hell of an event (pun not intended), unless of course prior lore is being ignored.
That's not entirely accurate. There were options in the old 2e boxed sets for DARK SUN that actually allowed for PCs to "breach the Gray." It just simply wasn't as common as planar hopping in other campaign settings. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 16:57:34
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Well Dark Sun for 4E is being reset, so most of the prior lore will (IMO) probably not be vailid in the first place. Generally speaking of course.
I expect the Dark Sun Forums on the WotC Boards to have a lot of griping & gnashing of teeth next month.
This also explains why Whisper of Venom is being released so early. Two books from the same series released in one year. It's one of the Novels with the Novella in it.
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:02:15
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Someone thinks there's a real mass demand for this masochistic tear-it-all-down disease-and-darkness kick. Seriously, what am I missing?
quote:
“I have no quarrel with you, friend, but circumstances make us enemies. Only one of us will leave the arena this day, and it's going to be me.”
Egotistical tough-guy speak, adolescent douchebag version.
I think I'll stop reading now. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 Jul 2010 17:19:56 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:04:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Well Dark Sun for 4E is being reset, so most of the prior lore will (IMO) probably not be vailid in the first place. Generally speaking of course.
Are you certain about that? Because from what I recall reading in the 'Designer Notes' from DDI's DRAGON, the 4e DS setting will be set only a few weeks after the events detailed in the 2e revised campaign setting boxed set. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:04:53
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quote:
Originally posted by mensch
To date, WotC has released only one sourcebook for the Forgotten Realms, while slowly introducing other campaign settings - like the recent reincarnation of Dark Sun. Or is the lack of new FR lore deliberate and are they focussing on the core D&D (and Eberron) stuff?
It is deliberate -- we have three FR books for 4E, and unless they change their stated plans, that's all the non-novel stuff we'll see printed. There has been new lore released as part of the DDI, but not nearly as much as could be desired. Plus, you have to pay for everything DDI, even if all you want is the FR lore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:07:48
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| People are already throwing a fit over how Wizards shoehorned Eladrin and the Feywild into Dark Sun... |
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ggroy
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:12:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And yeah, something like this does seem like the lead-up to 5E -- though I think Wizards would be really foolish to unleash another edition so quickly. Admittedly, they've made many business decisions I find questionable, but still...
A relatively short time between editions is not entirely unprecedented in the rpg business. A recent example is Mongoose's Runequest.
The first edition of Mongoose's Runequest (MRQ1) was released in mid 2006, and the line petered out sometime in 2009.
The second edition of Mongoose's Runequest (MRQ2) was released in January 2010. (They have released ten MRQ2 books already).
So MRQ1 lasted for around three years. Depending on how one defines editions in D&D, 3E D&D lasted for three years until a 3.5E (sub-edition) was released.
In the case of 4E, 2011 is the "three year itch" mark. |
Edited by - ggroy on 05 Jul 2010 17:14:08 |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:15:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by mensch
To date, WotC has released only one sourcebook for the Forgotten Realms, while slowly introducing other campaign settings - like the recent reincarnation of Dark Sun. Or is the lack of new FR lore deliberate and are they focussing on the core D&D (and Eberron) stuff?
It is deliberate -- we have three FR books for 4E, and unless they change their stated plans, that's all the non-novel stuff we'll see printed. There has been new lore released as part of the DDI, but not nearly as much as could be desired. Plus, you have to pay for everything DDI, even if all you want is the FR lore.
Three sourcebooks for 4th edition? I thought the only title published was the campaign guide, what are the titles the other two?
Episodic content via DDI sounds no too bad in theory, but only if one could get a FR-only subscription. How is the new lore distributed, via PDF, or is it behind some kind of "paywall"? From what I gathered in reading replies on different scrolls those new bits of lore can't be posted or published otherwise, because of the lack of a clear fan policy from WotC, right? |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 05 Jul 2010 17:16:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 17:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by mensch
Three sourcebooks for 4th edition? I thought the only title published was the campaign guide, what are the titles the other two?
There's the campaign guide, the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, and an adventure, Scepter Tower of Spellgard.
quote:
Originally posted by mensch
Episodic content via DDI sounds no too bad in theory, but only if one could get a FR-only subscription. How is the new lore distributed, via PDF, or is it behind some kind of "paywall"? From what I gathered in reading replies on different scrolls those new bits of lore can't be posted or published otherwise, because of the lack of a clear fan policy from WotC, right?
Dunno, but I'd assume pdf. As for sharing that lore, it's not as much the fan policy as it is standard fair use policy. Sharing for free large portions of paid content is a no-no, whether it's from a book or an online article. Brief quotes, though, are okay. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Jul 2010 17:33:37 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 13:27:07
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| They can't come up with a better name, how creative they are. |
z455t |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 14:02:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
People are already throwing a fit over how Wizards shoehorned Eladrin and the Feywild into Dark Sun...
Y'know... I've never really been a fan of Dark Sun (no particular reason), but the little I know of the setting makes me understand why people would be upset with a Feywild connection. If there is one setting that should have lost a way to the Feywild, it's Dark Sun. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 14:09:49
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| Interesting... I don't think Abyssalplague is a sign of a new edition (I *do* think the 'Essentials' product line is practically a revised edition, i.e. 4.5). I guess this is linked to either hyping a new type of product (a computer game?) or their 'Encounters' program. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 16 Jul 2010 14:10:14 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 01:01:17
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With the advent of DDI, the days of .5 editions are pretty much over. If WotC had DDI way back in 3rd edition, I highly doubt we'd have a whole re-print of the rules. This is primarly due to the constant rules updates they put out that constantly creates errata for the game.
If anything, the Abyssalplague is some over-arching event that happens in the Cosmos and some adventure plot for PCs to run through, nothing more.
I doubt this is any sort of edition change or pre-cursor to 5e. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 02:47:49
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Seriously...they have the Feywild in Darksun???
I mean...what in the hell? Is that confirmed for real? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 03:11:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Seriously...they have the Feywild in Darksun???
I mean...what in the hell? Is that confirmed for real?
Umm... From everything I've seen, yeah. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 04:54:27
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I...
Why?!
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 09:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Someone thinks there's a real mass demand for this masochistic tear-it-all-down disease-and-darkness kick. Seriously, what am I missing?
quote:
“I have no quarrel with you, friend, but circumstances make us enemies. Only one of us will leave the arena this day, and it's going to be me.”
Egotesticular, tough-guy speak, adolescent douchebag version.
I think I'll stop reading now.
Fixed that for you. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 09:12:31
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How could I have missed this thread?
A group of evil beings sets out to destroy all the known D&D worlds?
Its the WotCplague!!!
Or has Renton been re-named 'The Abyss'?
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
People are already throwing a fit over how Wizards shoehorned Eladrin and the Feywild into Dark Sun...
It would make some sense if they turned the Pyreen into Eladrin.
Not saying I agree with it, but that would make the most sense, IMHO.
Then the runner-Elves can stay plain ol' Elves.
They can't go with Warforged - people would scrap 'em for the metal.
Hmmmmm... Boneforged... You guys are witnesses right? I have to Copyright that before someone sees....
Shifters & Changelings would work...
No genies, but given the setting they would fit, and then we could have Genasi. I see possibilites there.
Tieflings could just be the new version of corrupted defilers... Dragonborn are a complete no-brainer (the Dragon kings had several hybrid stages).
I can see it.
Wonder how they'll shoe-horn Eladrin into Krynn eventually. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2010 23:22:28 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 14:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I...
Why?!
The remenants of the Feywild would only fill the city of Tyr. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 18:51:48
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I'm still dumbfounded...I seriously don't get the reason for even adding them in.
And Warforged would NOT work. Those guys would have been the first race obliterated by a resource hungry world. Bone-forged eh? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 23:41:04
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Because the core rules must work for ALL settings - it's their mantra -
"One rules to rule them all, an in the darkness bind them,
in the land of Renton, where the shadows lie"
The major problem with past editions is that people were setting-minded, and people who played one didn't necessarily play the others. Some settings even had different rules that set them apart. According to what the designers said in those podcasts, they set out to change that way of thinking. Rather then have 'Forgotten Realms' players, or 'Greyhawk Players', they wanted everyone to just be 'D&D players'.
So, one set of rules, for everyone, even if they have to force-fit everything into every setting.
Which begs the question, "just what is the point of having seperate settings then?"
If rules no longer differentiate a setting, then that job now falls completely on the DM. It was always the DMs job to provide flavor, but in the past the rules helped him establish that (such as Ravenloft's rules for 'terror'). So now what we are provided with is cardboard cut-out settings that we have detail ourselves, and provide all the flavor for ourselves, because the rules no longer assist us in that regard.
Athas, to be fair, did have some other things going for it, like the complete lack of metals. Its going to be interesting to see how they bring creatures from the feywild into a setting lacking such heavy elements - Fey couldn't use Iron, but they sure liked using other materials - Mithral, Adamantium, Glassteel (a favorite of theirs), etc.
And Fey can use steel as well - its only 'Cold Iron' they have a problem with. Silver is yet another option (although it would have to be alloyed).
So, unless the Fey coming into DS are using Bone weapons, they are going to throw the flavor off big-time.
Also, expect much Shadowfel yuckiness - if the Feywild is there, you can bet your bottom-dollar that there will be tons of new lore that retcons what others were (like connecting defilers to Shadow-magic). life & death, preserver & defiler, Fey & Shadow... too easy.
Which means it will be nothing like the original.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 00:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The major problem with past editions is that people were setting-minded, and people who played one didn't necessarily play the others.
Just for some perspective: in my over twenty years of gaming while traveling cross country, I've yet to find a single gaming group where this was true.
Again, just for perspective.
:::::::::::
As for the Abyssalplague: D&D is starting to become cyclical.
Right now we're on the part of the cycle where everything that was undone (like separating game worlds so they're not so interlocked and muddling with each other's continuity through planar events) is being joined right back up again through a unifying event. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 01:08:05
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I should clarify - I agree with you 100%.
However, this 'phenomena' is what seems to have been one of the driving factors behind 4th edition, not my idea at all - they say as much in some of those early podcasts.
I think a lot of that false impression came from the Realms themselves - it was one of the few settings where a lot of people either loved them or hated them - very few taking the middle-ground. Since FR is their flagship setting, and one of their biggest hits, part of the goal was to eliminate it's detractors by making everyone just 'D&D players'.
But yeah, I never really saw that myself. I ran into people who didn't care for the Realms, but never anyone who actually hated it. And the groups I have seen and played with played a little bit of everything, including quite a few non-TSR/WotC games.
As for the latter part of your post, do you think thats a good thing, or bad thing? You don't seem to really take a stance.
What you call 'cyclical' I call indecisive. You say 'Tomato', etc...
Its all good - I just wish they would come out of this 'lore light' approach, before its too late. 'Uninteresting' never sold a product before, AFAIK. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Abyssalplague!
