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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  15:20:14  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
If a compendium were to be recreated, how would you like to break it down? I think we can pull the community back in by segmenting the next compendium into eras that both sate the sensibilities of the members here and help to create a wonderful fan product.

This would also provide the necessary buffer to keep the various parties at bay with what they wish to contribute to.

Thoughts? We are all die-hard and loyal fans. I see no reason to spoil over our differences when we can contribute equitably to the world we love, yes? This is perhaps a better way of putting my vision that I had several months ago.

Please discuss accordingly with the ideas you think you can contribute. There is no reason to have game editions bleed into this as you would be sticking to your favorite time in the Realms. The only thing I ask, is that we try not to rewrite what has been done and what is ongoing in the Realms. From my point of view, it is disrepectful of those still creating stories for the Realms. On the legal side, you are grossly affecting the IP of WotC and would be inviting unnecessary attention to the project.

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  15:24:47  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm going to tout my love of Realms music and suggest that I continue with this tradition by elaborating on some finely detailed musical Realmslore that will, ultimately, be applicable in any edition.

I've got bits and pieces floating around, as part of my many projects and notebooks on Realms music, in addition to my failed DRAGON submission dealing with the same topic.

I'd love to contribute something like this to a new Candlekeep Compendium effort.

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BlackAce
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
358 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  15:29:47  Show Profile Send BlackAce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great to see you're willing to try again, Matt! I'd be happy to offer a contribution set in 1360. I've had a couple of ideas kicking around for years.
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  15:30:15  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That sounds like exactly what would be great for the Compendium, Sage!

Thanks BlackAce, I think this will be great for all.

Edited by - Matt James on 10 Jun 2010 15:31:39
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  16:08:31  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm.... I've got a samurai PC that I'd love to set the backstory for. Got a couple other ideas as well.

Quick suggestion: If we stat out NPCs/Items/etc. we should take the time to stat them out in multiple editions (if possible).

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  16:15:37  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I tend to agree, Ashe. I think they should also be put into an appendex area at the back of the compilation so that we don't flood the stories with these mechanical aspects. Thoughts?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  16:25:33  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

That sounds like exactly what would be great for the Compendium, Sage!
Indeed.

The only real question for me is... where would I like to start first?!

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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  17:33:20  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

I tend to agree, Ashe. I think they should also be put into an appendex area at the back of the compilation so that we don't flood the stories with these mechanical aspects. Thoughts?



I like that idea.

Of course, I can also think of putting together an entire compendium of NPC stat-blocks too...

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2131 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  17:49:29  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am not trying to cause a stir here. I like and respect Matt. I was just wondering if a writer more talented than I would be willing to go about creating transition lore. I know for me, the main reason I hate the 4e Realms is because I do not feel that they (WotC) took the time nor put the effort to make the transition less abrupt and painful. Especially since we were promised "Countdown to the Realms" articles that would explain in more and better detail many of the events described in the last couple of pages of the GHotR. If we work together to create lore that unifies and strengthens the bonds of fans of both the pre- and post-Spellplague fans, I think that the 'Keep will benefit. I just hope that there is someone out there willing to take on a projects (or projects) like this.

Sincerely,
Hawkins

Loyal Scribe who has been hiding in dark, dusty corners as of late (which is not good for his asthma).

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  18:13:48  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM

I am not trying to cause a stir here. I like and respect Matt. I was just wondering if a writer more talented than I would be willing to go about creating transition lore. I know for me, the main reason I hate the 4e Realms is because I do not feel that they (WotC) took the time nor put the effort to make the transition less abrupt and painful. Especially since we were promised "Countdown to the Realms" articles that would explain in more and better detail many of the events described in the last couple of pages of the GHotR. If we work together to create lore that unifies and strengthens the bonds of fans of both the pre- and post-Spellplague fans, I think that the 'Keep will benefit. I just hope that there is someone out there willing to take on a projects (or projects) like this.

Sincerely,
Hawkins

Loyal Scribe who has been hiding in dark, dusty corners as of late (which is not good for his asthma).



This may be the best idea yet. How about an entire Compendium filled with lore that bridges the gap between 1375 and 1480? Much like some of the anthologies, just tell a story that details a point in the transition era that shows how the Spellplague may have effected someone or something similar...

I know that in the case of the BattleTech universe, I'm finally coming around to the Dark Age because of all the Jihad detail that is being released.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  18:39:20  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
This may be the best idea yet. How about an entire Compendium filled with lore that bridges the gap between 1375 and 1480? Much like some of the anthologies, just tell a story that details a point in the transition era that shows how the Spellplague may have effected someone or something similar...
<snip>



Great idea! I agree wholeheartedly! That's a hundred years to fill, a lot of time... allows for a lot of ideas...
<Maybe sneak in something of the 'next generation' idea of mine?>
Zireael

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  19:15:30  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
This may be the best idea yet. How about an entire Compendium filled with lore that bridges the gap between 1375 and 1480? Much like some of the anthologies, just tell a story that details a point in the transition era that shows how the Spellplague may have effected someone or something similar...
<snip>



Great idea! I agree wholeheartedly! That's a hundred years to fill, a lot of time... allows for a lot of ideas...
<Maybe sneak in something of the 'next generation' idea of mine?>
Zireael



Well, you'd probably want to stay away from any canon NPCs since WotC has a lot more power over them.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  19:17:38  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Creating new and immerse NPCs would be advisable as we want to stay out of WotC's sandbox as much as possible.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  19:44:25  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, reset and reload.

I am still interested how this continues and your effort is noble to unite the community somewhat with this project.

I have not the time nor knowledge, I am afraid, to contribute to the compendium aside from the PrC of the High Old One maybe, which I did a few years ago. But I am afraid it will conflict with WoTC rules most likely.

Ergdusch

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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coach
Senior Scribe

USA
479 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  19:46:00  Show Profile Send coach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What if we write a historical story, that maybe explained a past canon event that didn't get alot of Sourcebook/Novel love?

Bloodstone Lands Sage
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  20:01:51  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Coach, that should be fine.
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  20:56:26  Show Profile  Visit Darkmeer's Homepage Send Darkmeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What of "far lands" that never got updates, such as Zakkhara?

Big question from me is whether Zakhara still exists post-plague.

Perhaps a "screen shot" before and after the spellplague for them? Something for everyone would be able to go there (and it's not in the sandbox )

/d

"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME."
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe

545 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  22:44:55  Show Profile Send Mr_Miscellany a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm game to contribute to the "transition era" of the 100 year jump. Also the current era of the Realms.

I'd love to read something fan-generated about Zkhara too. Anything to give me an anchor from which to build on for my home game is welcome.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  23:31:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Detail specific regions and/or cultures that have been mentioned and have received nearly no lore at all. Something like Thaeravel, the Land of Alabaster Towers (I called it!!!).

No crunch at all, and articles that are easily edition-neutral. I can actually make a list of such persons/places/things a mile long... and none of it has to ruffle any feathers.

Personages and artifacts can be named and described, but as for their actual game mechanics and stats, none need be made - all of this was so far in the past that stats don't matter and information is sketchy, at best.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2010 :  23:46:31  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that I've actually READ the thread...

quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Creating new and immerse NPCs would be advisable as we want to stay out of WotC's sandbox as much as possible.

AGREED

As I stated above, decribing a famous personage is one thing, but we've all seen how much trouble stating such people can be (5000 different versions of Drizzt, anyone?) I'd say just be very descriptive and leave the crunchy bits for the DMs (where it BELONGS). A 'high level' mage may be 35th level in one person's game, but a mere 12th level in another's (like mine)

Doing 'interim stories' sounds pretty neat - I could get into that. I had started one that took place in The North (just west of the Goblin Marches, actually), but it doesn't work now that I've seen the 4e FRCG (it was based loosely on the stuff Drizzt said in that now-infamous prologue). I could use some of the stuff I came up with for the Kara-Tur thread, detailing the devastation wrought in the east. I have some ideas of the 'why' behind what was destroyed by the Spellplague and what wasn't.

Boy, was that leaving the door open... I mean an 'in-game' reason for it!

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Jun 2010 23:48:33
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  00:24:20  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Now that I've actually READ the thread...

quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Creating new and immerse NPCs would be advisable as we want to stay out of WotC's sandbox as much as possible.

AGREED

As I stated above, decribing a famous personage is one thing, but we've all seen how much trouble stating such people can be (5000 different versions of Drizzt, anyone?) I'd say just be very descriptive and leave the crunchy bits for the DMs (where it BELONGS). A 'high level' mage may be 35th level in one person's game, but a mere 12th level in another's (like mine)

Doing 'interim stories' sounds pretty neat - I could get into that. I had started one that took place in The North (just west of the Goblin Marches, actually), but it doesn't work now that I've seen the 4e FRCG (it was based loosely on the stuff Drizzt said in that now-infamous prologue). I could use some of the stuff I came up with for the Kara-Tur thread, detailing the devastation wrought in the east. I have some ideas of the 'why' behind what was destroyed by the Spellplague and what wasn't.

Boy, was that leaving the door open... I mean an 'in-game' reason for it!



Don't know if you got my email, MT. I'd be willing to take a look at some of your Kara-tur stuff and see if I can't come up with something.

AND, I just had an epiphany on NPCs & Stats. Go back to the good ol' days! That's write, instead of statting out an NPC, just put a general "(LN m elf Fighter 15/Thief 4)" or "(LG f dwarf Avenger/Oathsworn 14)". That way, they get an idea of their power level without doing any of the detailing.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  00:26:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ashe, that's precisely what I was thinking (in terms of stats), and NO, I didn't get your E-Mail. I'm one of those weird people that only checks his E-Mail every other month.

Its been 6 weeks since the last time I checked - guess its almost time...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  00:28:04  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like that idea too.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  00:54:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In my opinion, the breakdown should be about 50-50 between the 4E Realms and earlier periods. I think of the 4E Realms as anything post-1380, but most specifically the timeframe of the FRCG and the novels now being released. And for earlier editions, I'm not just speaking of the 3.x era -- while that's the era I'm most comfortable with, there are plenty of stories that can be told in earlier times. We've already seen some great stuff from the Days of Thunder and the earliest known years of the Realms. I think there's plenty of room for great stuff in other timeframes, like perhaps the founding of Halruaa, the first centuries of Westgate, the Rage of Dragons that happened in 1018 (I know that date well because of an NPC of mine), or even 1340s Silverymoon.

Going too far in either direction from a 50-50 split could anger/alienate people who feel their preferred era is being neglected.

If full stat blocks are included, I like the idea of putting them in an appendix. However, I like even better the idea of going back to the minimal stats mentioned by Ashe. I know from prior discussions that not everyone agrees with me on stat blocks, but I still feel the minimal approach gives a DM more room to play with and is thus better than a fully detailed statblock.

As for me, I can do mostly edition-neutral Hooks, as I've been doing. That said, of the current batch of 6 Hooks that I'm sitting on, 3 are set in the 3.x timeframe -- but that's because two are sequels of a sort, and the third one is based on groups that are different in 4E than in 3E (specifically, the Harpers and the Red Wizards).

I've also got two out of three articles written detailing Realms-based versions of warforged. Those are edition-neutral, and I would readily submit them to this project. I've been encouraged to see about submitting at least one of them to Dragon, but my continued issue with the all-or-nothing nature of the DDI precludes that (yes, I'd rather have fewer readers seeing my stuff for free than have more readers that can't get just that one article, if they were so inclined).

All that aside, though, I'd still like to have a more definite idea of WotC's reaction to this. I know we've discussed it in length elsewhere, but I'm still very concerned about how WotC would treat such a project -- and that's not limited to just where it's hosted.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Jun 2010 00:56:23
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  01:08:44  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

All that aside, though, I'd still like to have a more definite idea of WotC's reaction to this. I know we've discussed it in length elsewhere, but I'm still very concerned about how WotC would treat such a project -- and that's not limited to just where it's hosted.
I'm still waiting for particulars from both Wizards and Alaundo on this. Alaundo's expressed tentative interest, but his busy work schedule has prevented him from providing me with a more definitive answer.

As for any reaction from Wizards, well... I'm still waiting on that, as I said.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  01:38:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My opinion:
So long as the pre-4e bits do not include any crunch, the tome contains many references to the post-plague Realms, and we keep it as edition-free as possible, I think they will find it in their hearts to continue to ignore us (since they can't officially recognize us, because that could then be interpreted as permission, which in turn could later be used against them if they ever had to defend their IP in court). Basically its the same situation they had with the Sarbreenar debacle - so long as they 'flew under the radar' WotC was happy to ignore them, but they became too big, holding convention events and inviting WotC employees to play, which precluded any deniability on WIzard's part. The fact that they began charging for campaign materials was merely icing on the cake, even though ostensibly it was just to cover costs, with the balance being used for charity.

I followed that case as closely as possible, and the main reason it came to a head was because they forced WotC's hand by charging and flaunting themselves at cons - at that time (things are probably different now) the company was happy with small sites and groups who did their own thing, primarily because it built interest in the IP.

So I think by asking for permission, we are actually creating a situation in which they cannot grant said permission. They lose all deniability down the road.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jun 2010 01:39:07
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skychrome
Senior Scribe

713 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  01:46:52  Show Profile  Visit skychrome's Homepage Send skychrome a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Alaundo's expressed tentative interest, but his busy work schedule has prevented him from providing me with a more definitive answer.


Sage, just out of curiosity: what is Alaundo busy with that keeps him away from the Keep?

"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  01:48:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rabid, deep-sea leprecauns, I'm thinking.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  01:55:46  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Alaundo's expressed tentative interest, but his busy work schedule has prevented him from providing me with a more definitive answer.


Sage, just out of curiosity: what is Alaundo busy with that keeps him away from the Keep?



Shhhh... it's actually a big secret, but Alaundo is really Hugh Jackman.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  02:08:47  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Alaundo's expressed tentative interest, but his busy work schedule has prevented him from providing me with a more definitive answer.


Sage, just out of curiosity: what is Alaundo busy with that keeps him away from the Keep?

It's mostly the result of the great demands of his real-life job.

...

Though, Jackman secretly posing as Alaundo would be kinda cool! It would give new meaning to the phrase we all like to pass around from time to time:- "Beware the wrath of the Irritated Moderator."


-- The Sage shudders as he imagines Alaundo in a Wolverine-styled berserker rage


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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 11 Jun 2010 02:11:27
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2010 :  02:12:53  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, Mr. James!

Your big secret wouldn't be THIS, would it?

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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