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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 19:11:35
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I have a few questions about the Steel Regent of Cormyr.
In the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms it says she disappeared in the spring of 1356 at age 46, and the next thing I can find about her is in The Grand History when she took the position as regent in 1371 at age 36, after the death of Azoun IV.
I have a very limited library of Realmslore, but do we know where she was when she went missing? When was she actually born? When/how did she come back? Is there a novel or sourcebook where I can read about it?
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My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 19:26:46
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| I am a bit curious about that age-thing myself. I cant remember it ever being explained in any source I have read. Then again, I have bad memory. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 19:40:44
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| I'd go by the Grand History of the Realms. It was updated and has Azoun IV being crowned in 1336 (instead of the 1311 listed in the Grey Box). GHotR would place her birth around 1335, making her around 25 around the time of the Tuigan Horde. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 29 Jul 2009 19:41:05 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:09:34
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The dates discrepancy is not a change, but a standardization of dating systems.
Alusair disappeared in 1356 of the Dalereckoning (DR). She was born in 1310 of Cormyr Reckoning (CR), or 1335 DR. Cormyr Reckoning is 25 years behind Dalereckoning.
Azoun assumed the throne in 1311 CR/1336 DR.
The Obarskyr family tree which causes this whole mess (in the Old Grey Box) is written in Cormyr Reckoning. The dating of events in FR prose is almost always in DR. The text you found (which says Alusair ran away in 1356 DR) probably says nothing about her age at the time; it's only by interpolating data from that lineage that the age gets that high. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I'd go by the Grand History of the Realms. It was updated and has Azoun IV being crowned in 1336 (instead of the 1311 listed in the Grey Box). GHotR would place her birth around 1335, making her around 25 around the time of the Tuigan Horde.
I'd agree, Alusair went missing as a girl; the 1311 in the Grey Box was not really an error; it just so happens that the 1311 was by Cormyrean Reckoning, which starts in 25 DR (so 1311 CR = 1336 DR). In Azoun's listing in the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms, p. 18, Alusair's date of birth is set in 1310 (Cormyrean Reckoning), which would be 1335 DR. Buuuuut, if you do 1356 (DR) - Ally's Date of Birth in CR, then you get 46. And therefore...
Edit: And Garen Thal beat me to it... |
Edited by - Thauramarth on 29 Jul 2009 20:18:13 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:40:42
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| Actually, Heroes Lorebook stated that she was 35. Assuming that, since it's written just after the battle with the Tuigans, that does put a crimp in the whole thing. (1360 - 1371 = 11 years) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:51:34
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| Ahh... I had forgotten about the CR/DR 25 year discrepancy. That explains a lot, but what about her "missing years"? Have we ever been told where she was? |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:56:18
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| Come to think of it the Knights trilogy feature Alusair as a young girl, so that might make it easier to more or less determine her age. I still prefer the idea of her being in her middle aged though, I like the idea of a forty year old princess having enough of court life and disappearing. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 23:02:48
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Not to derail the thread, but has the source of her name ever been elucidated upon? It seems to be in such a different style than the other Royals: I can't think of another with two given names.
I've always assumed that Nacacia was a family name of some sort. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 23:13:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
I've always assumed that Nacacia was a family name of some sort.
Cormyr Reckoning is based off the year of the founding of House Obarskyr. Since that year numbering system is still in use, I can only assume that that is their family name as well. Maybe Nacacia is a middle name? (although no one else in recent years is listed as having one. Cyclopedia of the Realms p.34) |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 23:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Perhaps that was the name she was using while 'missing'?
It's not a bad theory, Ashe, and you may well be right, but it doesn't seem right to me for a couple of reasons. 1) I doubt she'd keep using a name under which she had done some rather unsavory things, and 2) I seem to recall (I'm AFB) that that's her birth-name. Maybe an 'Ask Ed' is in order? |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 00:26:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Not to derail the thread, but has the source of her name ever been elucidated upon? It seems to be in such a different style than the other Royals: I can't think of another with two given names.
I've always assumed that Nacacia was a family name of some sort.
Alusair is her given, proper name. Like many royals, Alusair also has a second given name (what we might call a "middle" name) of Nacacia.
For those that haven't read the apppriate texts, or put the pieces together just yet, I'm going to beige out the next bit of SPOILERS. It's been discussed in passing over on Ed's threads, over the years, but for those not yet caught up, here is the explanation of Alusair's other name. Highlight to read.
"Nacacia" is the name of Elminster's half-elven lover in Elminster in Myth Drannor. As revealed in Elminster's Daughter, Filfaeril--Alusair's mother--is Elminster's "daughter" (here meaning 'a female descendant,' not his actual daughter). Filfaeril learned of her descent from Elminster well after her marriage to Azoun, and possibly after the births of her first two children, Foril and Tanalasta, but before the third. She gave the name Nacacia to her youngest daughter in honor of that heritage, and of the half-elven lass that is mostly lost to history. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 20:56:41
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| Thanks, Garen. I knew the bit about Fee's ancestry, but not that it was reflected in Alusair's name. So I guess it is something of a 'Family name', then. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 19:08:55
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Thanks Garen, that is a great bit of lore about the name. I'll have to add those books to my reading list.
quote:
Originally posted by wintermute27
...do we know where she was when she went missing? ... When/how did she come back?
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Alusair was doing during this period between 1356 and 1371? I seem to remember reading somewhere that she was off adventuring in the Stonelands, but now I can't find the reference. |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 05:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by wintermute27
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Alusair was doing during this period between 1356 and 1371?
I'm tempted to sneak the last of these questions into the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge thread. It doesn't say in the rules that you have to know the answer to the question that you ask...  |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 07:30:04
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quote:
Originally posted by wintermute27
quote:
Originally posted by wintermute27
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Alusair was doing during this period between 1356 and 1371?
I'm tempted to sneak the last of these questions into the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge thread. It doesn't say in the rules that you have to know the answer to the question that you ask...
But how can you confirm whether or not answer is right, if you don't know?  |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 07:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by wintermute27
...do we know where she was when she went missing? ... When/how did she come back?
I only have 1E and 2E sources (not including the Cormyr trilogy), and nothing definite beyond 1360 DR.
* News of her disappearance broke in Elesias, 1356 DR (DM's sourcebook of the Realms, p. 39), rumored to have been seen in Tilverton.
* She was rumored to have been seen in the presence of Gharri of Gond, high priest of Gond in Tilverton (Eleint, 1357 DR)
* She features in FRC2-Curse of the Azure Bonds, set in Tilverton, where she was being held captive by the Fire Knives. As one possible outcome is for the PCs to reunite Alusair with her old man, this module is a bit problematic when it comes to canon. In my campaigns, I usually worked around this by having Alusair abscond after the PCs spring her.
* Next appearance is 1360 DR, during the Tuigan War (novel Crusade). She reveals that she did run off with Gharri, and that Gharri was killed by bounty hunters trying to bring Alusair back to Cormyr. Alusair has drifted eastwards, and has joined the dwarves of the Earthfast Mountains under Torg mac Cei. She joined the dwarven army as it joined Azoun's crusade, and took temporary command of the Alliance Army when Azoun was incapacitated. At the end of the novel (IIRC), she said that she had some unfinished business to take care of, but would then return home.
I presume that she returned to Cormyr later, and started her adventuring in the Stonelands with her noble "swords" afterwards. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 14:47:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
* Next appearance is 1360 DR, during the Tuigan War (novel Crusade). She reveals that she did run off with Gharri, and that Gharri was killed by bounty hunters trying to bring Alusair back to Cormyr. Alusair has drifted eastwards, and has joined the dwarves of the Earthfast Mountains under Torg mac Cei. She joined the dwarven army as it joined Azoun's crusade, and took temporary command of the Alliance Army when Azoun was incapacitated. At the end of the novel (IIRC), she said that she had some unfinished business to take care of, but would then return home.
This is one bit that's always bugged me... In the novel Crusade, the dwarves referred to her as the Mithril Princess. And then she became the Steel Regent. I've long wondered why the demotion from mithril to steel. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 16:33:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
* Next appearance is 1360 DR, during the Tuigan War (novel Crusade). She reveals that she did run off with Gharri, and that Gharri was killed by bounty hunters trying to bring Alusair back to Cormyr. Alusair has drifted eastwards, and has joined the dwarves of the Earthfast Mountains under Torg mac Cei. She joined the dwarven army as it joined Azoun's crusade, and took temporary command of the Alliance Army when Azoun was incapacitated. At the end of the novel (IIRC), she said that she had some unfinished business to take care of, but would then return home.
This is one bit that's always bugged me... In the novel Crusade, the dwarves referred to her as the Mithril Princess. And then she became the Steel Regent. I've long wondered why the demotion from mithril to steel.
Hmmm... Maybe she had to turn in her uniform, along with her company phone and security pass when she quit the service ? Or maybe mithril was considered a bit too ostentatious ("irrational exuberance") in the wake of the Devil Dragon crisis?
Could have been a trademark issue - maybe the "Mithril Regent" has already been hijacked by Zhentil Keep ? |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 16:45:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In the novel Crusade, the dwarves referred to her as the Mithril Princess. And then she became the Steel Regent. I've long wondered why the demotion from mithril to steel.
The dwarves referred to her as the Mithril* Princess, true, but the title never caught on with the Cormyrean nobles that rode at Alusair's side. She swiftly became the 'Steel Princess' to them, and when she assumed the regency, 'Steel Regent.' There are some very few sages and other nobles that refer to Alusair--both before and after the century jump, but far fewer afterward--as the Mithral Princess. None ever called her the Mithral Regent.
*Mithral, now that WotC gave up on trying to defend its use of the "i" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 17:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In the novel Crusade, the dwarves referred to her as the Mithril Princess. And then she became the Steel Regent. I've long wondered why the demotion from mithril to steel.
The dwarves referred to her as the Mithril* Princess, true, but the title never caught on with the Cormyrean nobles that rode at Alusair's side. She swiftly became the 'Steel Princess' to them, and when she assumed the regency, 'Steel Regent.' There are some very few sages and other nobles that refer to Alusair--both before and after the century jump, but far fewer afterward--as the Mithral Princess. None ever called her the Mithral Regent.
*Mithral, now that WotC gave up on trying to defend its use of the "i"
You present good reasoning, but it's still not a great answer for me. Mithral is supposed to be stronger than steel, and betwixt the two, steel could be considered a more base (baser?) material. So it still seems to be something of a demotion, and if the other name was known and discarded, it could be considered insulting. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 18:40:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You present good reasoning, but it's still not a great answer for me. Mithral is supposed to be stronger than steel, and betwixt the two, steel could be considered a more base (baser?) material. So it still seems to be something of a demotion, and if the other name was known and discarded, it could be considered insulting.
It wasn't known and discarded so much as not used to begin with.
The dwarves called Alusair the Mithral Princess, for her beauty and her strength. She was a rare and precious find--like the metal--and worthy of jealous protection.
When Alusair returned to Cormyr, there was not a crowd of people calling her by her dwarven epithet. It's what the dwarves called her, not a title. There were a couple of Cormyreans that knew the name, but most did not; the Steel Princess nickname developed somewhat independently of the Mithral one, more parallel in growth than it seems in extant lore.
Alusair herself had no trouble being called Steel (it was the Princess and Regent she had problems with), and almost no one ever considered it an insult to use the title--least of all Alusair herself. Only the very studied, very particular nobles and sages got persnickety about the Mithral/Steel distinction.
Kind of like we do, sometimes.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 19:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You present good reasoning, but it's still not a great answer for me. Mithral is supposed to be stronger than steel, and betwixt the two, steel could be considered a more base (baser?) material. So it still seems to be something of a demotion, and if the other name was known and discarded, it could be considered insulting.
It wasn't known and discarded so much as not used to begin with.
The dwarves called Alusair the Mithral Princess, for her beauty and her strength. She was a rare and precious find--like the metal--and worthy of jealous protection.
When Alusair returned to Cormyr, there was not a crowd of people calling her by her dwarven epithet. It's what the dwarves called her, not a title. There were a couple of Cormyreans that knew the name, but most did not; the Steel Princess nickname developed somewhat independently of the Mithral one, more parallel in growth than it seems in extant lore.
Alusair herself had no trouble being called Steel (it was the Princess and Regent she had problems with), and almost no one ever considered it an insult to use the title--least of all Alusair herself. Only the very studied, very particular nobles and sages got persnickety about the Mithral/Steel distinction.
Kind of like we do, sometimes.
Okay, now all that makes sense, and lays the issue to rest. I shall be bugged by it no more. |
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Alusair Nacacia
