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Minardil
Acolyte
Finland
18 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2003 : 17:54:24
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What was year of the Bhaalspawn saga (Story of Baldur's Gate)? Manuals say it's either 1369 or 1373. I ask this becouse I'm planning a grand adventure for my players.
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Can we not be friends? After all, our dust shall be equal in the end. |
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Leona
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 03:54:32
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| Don't really think that the Bhaalspawn saga actually happened in the realms outside the game itself. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 05:32:59
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| The 'Bhaalspawn Saga' is not actually canon material created by TSR or Wizards of the Coast, it was infact solely a creation of Bioware for the purpose of having a really cool and epic storyline for their Baldur's Gate saga. As such there is no material regarding the Bhaalspawn outside of the games and their manuals. As far as canonized FR is concerned Bhaal is dead. That's all. Now, that's not to say you could not use it for your campaign, but you will not find any canon sources. The only products regarding the game Wizards had any hand in were the novelizations done of the game (possible the worst FR books ever done). |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 08:01:05
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Edain Shadowstar said -
quote:
The only products regarding the game Wizards had any hand in were the novelizations done of the game (possible the worst FR books ever done).
Even though these novels were poor, the fanatical FR novel collectors among us (myself for example), have these books sitting on our shelves, and have even read each of them at least once.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 09:20:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Minardil
What was year of the Bhaalspawn saga (Story of Baldur's Gate)? Manuals say it's either 1369 or 1373. I ask this becouse I'm planning a grand adventure for my players.
I thought it was FROM 1369 TO 1373 |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2003 : 18:11:41
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| I too possess the Baldur's Gate books, and have read them, which is a fact that never fails to puzzle me. I own the books, yet they're not very good (I tend to not keep 'bad' books very long). Well, no one said being a collector is easy. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 07:40:09
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I don't understand Edain.
Even though the books are poor, they are still part of the FR collection. Why would you want to be rid of them, and spoil a complete collection of FR novels?.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 22:25:36
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Sell 'em, and use the money to buy better! 
I do appreciate your collector's spirit, though, Sage. I somewhat have the same. You might recall my (vocal) dislike of the Maztica trilogy. I confess they're still on my shelf. If nothing else, it makes the line of books with 'Forgotten Realms' on the spine that much longer. And I have to say, it's a very pretty sight.
However, I'm not going to spend money on what I know to be a bad egg. I'm not going to get the BG books anytime soon. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 08:36:38
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I understand and appreciate what you are talking about Bookwyrm, I guess I am just one of those eccentric people who like to have whole and complete collections of anything I collect. However, I rather enjoyed the Maztica trilogy, I thought it added a unique dimension to the FR. If I follow your thinking roughly, then I suppose you felt the same about the Empires trilogy as well?.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2003 : 12:53:31
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| No, no, no, you miss understand me Sage, what I'm saying is that even though they are poor books, and I do not usually keep poor books, I still keep them. I did not say I had any intent to gt rid of them, but that I was keeping them for my collection. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2003 : 21:11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
The 'Bhaalspawn Saga' is not actually canon material created by TSR or Wizards of the Coast, it was infact solely a creation of Bioware for the purpose of having a really cool and epic storyline for their Baldur's Gate saga. As such there is no material regarding the Bhaalspawn outside of the games and their manuals. As far as canonized FR is concerned Bhaal is dead. That's all. Now, that's not to say you could not use it for your campaign, but you will not find any canon sources. The only products regarding the game Wizards had any hand in were the novelizations done of the game (possible the worst FR books ever done).
I thought anything that was allowed to be used for BG was canon? I am not saying your wrong i'm saying Enlighten me. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 01:52:46
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| Am pretty sure that i read that all things that happend in the Bhaalspawn saga is canon just as that is said |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 02:33:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
Am pretty sure that i read that all things that happend in the Bhaalspawn saga is canon just as that is said
I've seen this whole argument in another forum and someone from WotC
supposedly told someone that anything used in the games just as in the
novels had met approval and was canon.I'll see if I can find that thread.If I can first remember the forum... |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 07:36:07
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William, you have my blessing. This would be a tremendous boost to those who support the BG series as Cannon  ... ... Not that I would dare to lead such a front ... It's just I've heard that there is a Candlekeep Revolutionary Front somewhere around here |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 11 Oct 2003 07:37:33 |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 15:16:46
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I should have found the forum first before I made such a comment.I know it exisits or at least it did.I was surprized the first time I seen it myself since Bhaal is out of the picture but what he said sounded logical too.(*SIGH*)Cardinal,I'll admit I'm having trouble
finding it so if you want to help then it would be greatly appreciated
as a matter of fact *HEEEELLLLPP*I may have let my mouth overload
my arse on this one. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 18:50:26
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| * Slaps forehead with hand* What could be one of the most important scrolls to the Candlekeep Revolutionary Front an you 'misplace' it?!?! I'll see what I can do... although I think I had seen them Coast Wizards burning some of their scrolls... I pray that wasn't the one... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 19:58:14
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These people on the Wizards of the Coast Forum..... they scare me....
They Talk as though they have poles up their nethers.... WAIT!!!!!!!!!
MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! PRAISE BHAAL!!!! And MANY thanks to Kuje31 for their post that has thankfully remained.. Wait this needs music... Hmm Imperial March outta do... Ok here is their post (
I will attempt to hunt down the rest of this information):
" Actually what he( Richard Baker -Deimos note) said is they are canon if you want them to be, or they are not if you don't want them to be. Since each version of FR is different from DM to DM and so you chose what is canon in your FR or your DM decides."
So Ineffect they can or cannot be, depending on the DM so nothing really new here.
"But as far as I am concerned, officially they are canon, since there are three novels based on the games, three Dragon articles on the games, and a sourcebook that ties in with the games. Also according to the WOTC timeline for FR on the WOTC web page, the BG novel is listed as canon also."
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!! So Wizards does embrace the BG series as Cannon... on an intresting note though:
"Which is no different then the Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor game. There is a novel for that game, a module for that game, and Dragon article(s) for that game."
I am sorry to say this means little to me but you other wizend sage may know what this person speaks of... Let's see I found most of this at:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91264&highlight=Bhaalspawn
I hope that Link worked...
OK EDIT NOTE: These Dry And dusty tomes in the Wizard's forum cause me to quake... We might be cracked... Ok maybe only me but these are FANATICS... Of course several options, opinions and ( I would assume) deaths have been put upon some pages with regards to A return to, of, or for Bhaal...and some against... some just don't see the artistry in Bhaal's work, he was an artist and, the time of death, the body a canvas... A pity most are too altruistic, goody-goody or blinded by their own meager evils to see the true work that was Bhaal's. I KNOW there will be return fire or dead silence...which I will take as my victory
Still the path is pushing forward...but By AO himself, those people are scary.... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 11 Oct 2003 20:09:45 |
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2003 : 16:53:19
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| Well,thats not the same thread I was looking for but thanks for helping. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 22:40:37
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| Well you could consider it non-canon since there isn't any mention of the bhaalspawn saga in any source book at all. One would think something like that would deserve at least a little mention. (praise the caliph that it didn't) |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 00:07:28
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| The Bhaalspawn saga is canon? Yay! That just makes me feel all warm inside, it does! |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 00:28:44
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| It is if you want it to be. But I would think that it wasn't due to the fact that nothing at all is mentioned about it in sourcebooks. Not even a single line. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 17:42:20
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| Yes i know the Shadows in amn lost a whole lot of members and power but does stand a single place no, but i hope its canon. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 20:05:49
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| Well, pardon me if I have difficultly trusting anything that is posted on the Wizard.COMMUNTIY boards; that place, especially the Forgotten Realms sections, is insane, you have fanatics, ruleslawyers, fools, and game designers/author mixing. Its like fire and octane. I know, I spend time over there, mostly lurking since expressing your opinion there gets you crucified. Regardless, I can probably pull out a few game designers saying its not canon if I tried, but there's no point. As long as the Forgotten Realms sourcebooks and settings do not mention it, I will continue to consider in non-canon. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 20:46:25
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Well written post Edain, that one had me laughing. Especially the fire and octane part  |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 03:55:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
These people on the Wizards of the Coast Forum..... they scare me....
They Talk as though they have poles up their nethers.... WAIT!!!!!!!!!
MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! PRAISE BHAAL!!!! And MANY thanks to Kuje31 for their post that has thankfully remained.. Wait this needs music... Hmm Imperial March outta do... Ok here is their post (
I will attempt to hunt down the rest of this information):
" Actually what he( Richard Baker -Deimos note) said is they are canon if you want them to be, or they are not if you don't want them to be. Since each version of FR is different from DM to DM and so you chose what is canon in your FR or your DM decides."
So Ineffect they can or cannot be, depending on the DM so nothing really new here.
"But as far as I am concerned, officially they are canon, since there are three novels based on the games, three Dragon articles on the games, and a sourcebook that ties in with the games. Also according to the WOTC timeline for FR on the WOTC web page, the BG novel is listed as canon also."
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!! So Wizards does embrace the BG series as Cannon... on an intresting note though:
"Which is no different then the Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor game. There is a novel for that game, a module for that game, and Dragon article(s) for that game."
I am sorry to say this means little to me but you other wizend sage may know what this person speaks of... Let's see I found most of this at:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91264&highlight=Bhaalspawn
I hope that Link worked...
OK EDIT NOTE: These Dry And dusty tomes in the Wizard's forum cause me to quake... We might be cracked... Ok maybe only me but these are FANATICS... Of course several options, opinions and ( I would assume) deaths have been put upon some pages with regards to A return to, of, or for Bhaal...and some against... some just don't see the artistry in Bhaal's work, he was an artist and, the time of death, the body a canvas... A pity most are too altruistic, goody-goody or blinded by their own meager evils to see the true work that was Bhaal's. I KNOW there will be return fire or dead silence...which I will take as my victory
Still the path is pushing forward...but By AO himself, those people are scary....
Wow I feel special. :) Some one quoted me over here. :) And yes maybe I am a bit vocal over on the FR boards. :)
To further expand on what I said about the Pool of Radiance:Attack on Myth Drannor game is this. There is a computer game of the same name. Then WOTC put out a novel of the same name, a sourcebook that ties into the puter game, and also article(s)in Dragon.
To answer the posters question the BG novels take place in 1368 and 1369. At least to this link on the WOTC's web site.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/fictionlist&tablesort=1 |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 05:43:13
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| I have a question about Bhaalspawns. I just re-read the Faiths and Pantheons manual and saw a bit about how creatures taht have a mortal and a deity as a parent are quasi-deities or hero deities. They are all immortal and supposedly are quite powerful too. So I don't get how many of the Bhaalspawns don't even know about their own heritage or could have died from old age and everything... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 07:26:12
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I have a question about Bhaalspawns. I just re-read the Faiths and Pantheons manual and saw a bit about how creatures taht have a mortal and a deity as a parent are quasi-deities or hero deities. They are all immortal and supposedly are quite powerful too. So I don't get how many of the Bhaalspawns don't even know about their own heritage or could have died from old age and everything...
Good point but then there are a few others who are offspring of deities and they are not hero or quasi deities. Take the Seven Sister's for instance. :) I'm not sure how to answer your reply though because it would make sense that Bhaalspawn should know they are different after thier powers come out...... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Adrian Moonbow
Seeker
Denmark
64 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 09:57:27
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Welcome to the boards kuje31, I've missed you...
AFAIK Faiths and Pantheons is 3e (right?), while the Bhaalspawn concept was hatched out in 2nd ed. So could it be as simple as a conversion error?
I would agree with kuje: They are not hero- or quasi deities. |
"I would have wanted not to die.
I would have wanted never to grow up!"
-Quidam
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 18:14:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Adrian Moonbow
Welcome to the boards kuje31, I've missed you...
AFAIK Faiths and Pantheons is 3e (right?), while the Bhaalspawn concept was hatched out in 2nd ed. So could it be as simple as a conversion error?
I would agree with kuje: They are not hero- or quasi deities.
I've been lurking ever since the novel boards over on the WOTC boards got closed, but I didn't sign up here until yesterday.
Yes F&P is 3e and that was my thoughts on offspring being hero or quasi deites also, since the Bhaalspawn from the novels was originally stat'd in 2e. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 05 Feb 2004 18:17:37 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 00:13:36
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| kuje, I don't really about the Seven Sisters though... They are all immortal and possess a lot of power in the Realms. I guess it's deity's choice of their offspring. For example, the offspring of the orc deities Gruumsh and Luthic, Bahgtru, is a lesser deity. Maybe it's how much power the deity divulge to their offsprings? I say this because Bhaal had many offsprings and maybe he just gave them all very little powers... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Bhaalspawn saga
